Ecotec, Duratec, Zetec, Zombietec, etc... questions.

[OCNORB]

Anybody here fluent in these newer (to me) offerings? Looking at the specs these little motors put out an incredible amount of power compared to motors that I do know. (Yes, I am aging myself a bit. Also I have not been mechanic-ing for a long time.)

How would one of these motors (say in a 2.2L to 2.4L variety) do in an an older Jeep as an all arounder that could do daily driving and weekend warrior type duty??

The old jeep currently has a 3.8L Buick motor that was rated at 110HP when new. Doubt its near that now. Being coupled to a TH400 is killing the little thing, so we are talking new trans and t-case time. Goal is better fuel economy, better handling, more zip, and 10 more years of reliable service. Any words of wisdom, especially from anyone that has ventured down this path would be great!

P.S> I know that the 4.3L would be a quick, easy; and I may go that route, but I wanna explore this option.

 

[Kiel]

I deal with a lot of 2.2 and 2.4 gm's at my work. No real problems, pretty quick for a little engine. You could look at the supercharged versions also. Craig has had one in his buggy forever it seems. His is turboed

 

[Gravy]

seems like I remember Craig's was the same motor as the Turbo Saturn Sky.

 

[Toad]

How about the supercharged 3.8? That could make for a sweet little jeep motor.

 

[Tacoma]

The Ecotecs aren't bad, but they sound like weedeaters on crack. Lots of 'em on the WERock circuit in ProMod buggies.

Jesse Haines was (is?) running a 3.8 in his badass rear-steer buggy.

 

[OCNORB]

How about the supercharged 3.8? That could make for a sweet little jeep motor.

I have a brand new in the box GM 3.8 supercharger, but I bought it for a diesel project.

The layout is all wrong for a rwd motor. Puts the intake into the firewall.

A 3.8l that is more efficient would be cool. Want the Trans and t-case options to be liveable too.

 

[TurboMinivan]

How would one of these motors (say in a 2.2L to 2.4L variety) do in an an older Jeep as an all arounder that could do daily driving and weekend warrior type duty??

The old jeep currently has a 3.8L Buick motor that was rated at 110HP when new. Doubt its near that now.

Off hand, I would advise against a modern 4cyl engine as a replacement for your V6. The peak HP may be higher, but the torque will be less throughout the rev range than even your old school engine and would probably be very unsatisfying. (Oh, sure, you could regear it aggressively to compensate.... but would you want to do that?)

Going a bit more modern is not a bad idea. Some here have suggested a blown 3.8L V6, and having owned a Grand Prix GTP I admit I do love that engine. Still, I think it would be overkill for you. Why not skip the blower and just go with a n/a 3800? The Series II was rated at 205 HP and 230 lb-ft, which will pep your Jeep right up. Furthermore, this engine is compact, light weight and durable. For the icing on the cake, this engine was made in a RWD configuration (1996-2002 f-body) so it is already set up for a relatively simple conversion.

$.02

 

[OCNORB]

Off hand, I would advise against a modern 4cyl engine as a replacement for your V6. The peak HP may be higher, but the torque will be less throughout the rev range than even your old school engine and would probably be very unsatisfying. (Oh, sure, you could regear it aggressively to compensate.... but would you want to do that?)

Going a bit more modern is not a bad idea. Some here have suggested a blown 3.8L V6, and having owned a Grand Prix GTP I admit I do love that engine. Still, I think it would be overkill for you. Why not skip the blower and just go with a n/a 3800? The Series II was rated at 205 HP and 230 lb-ft, which will pep your Jeep right up. Furthermore, this engine is compact, light weight and durable. For the icing on the cake, this engine was made in a RWD configuration (1996-2002 f-body) so it is already set up for a relatively simple conversion.

$.02

Awesome reply! Just the kind of thing I am looking for.

What inherent advantage does the 3800 have over a 4.3L? (I have driven both, but the 3800 was in a car and the 4.3L was in a truck so its not really apples to apples.)

 

[TurboMinivan]

What inherent advantage does the 3800 have over a 4.3L?

The Series II 3800 bests the 4.3L in peak power output, as even the Vortec 4.3L only produced 200 HP at best (and 170 HP at worst) depending on the application. The 3800 is also known for better fuel economy than the 4.3L, and it is also a more compact design which weighs less than the 4.3L engine. The 3800 has a reputation for being one of the most durable engines built by human hands, and I'm a big fan of it.

To its credit, the 4.3L will make more peak torque (235 to 260 lb-ft depending on application) than the 3800 does. Still, the difference is slight... and even the 3800 will make more torque than your original engine so you're already good there, anyway. I know lots of Jeep guys like to install the 4.3L engine, but I think the Series II 3800 is definitely a worthy candidate for consideration. Besides, you can continue to brag that your Jeep has a Buick V6 engine.

 

[I Lean]

What bellhousing pattern does your current 3.8L have? The 3800's use the GM 60 degree V6 bellhousing pattern--so if you have the 90 degree pattern now, you'll need either an adapter, or a 4.3 instead.

If you want to see how a 1996 3800 fits in a Willys, I have one. It's not done, or running, or anything else close to "done"....so it might not be much help to you. It was a front-wheel-drive motor, so the intake is pointing backward through the firewall.

 

[OCNORB]

What bellhousing pattern does your current 3.8L have? The 3800's use the GM 60 degree V6 bellhousing pattern--so if you have the 90 degree pattern now, you'll need either an adapter, or a 4.3 instead.

If you want to see how a 1996 3800 fits in a Willys, I have one. It's not done, or running, or anything else close to "done"....so it might not be much help to you. It was a front-wheel-drive motor, so the intake is pointing backward through the firewall.

That would be awesome.

I wandered through PNS the other day. There are 3 supercharged 3800 rivieras in there. 2 are still complete. Any hunches what kind of failure sends these to the grave?? We used to pull good 5.0L HO motors from Lincoln Mark V back in the day that ran perfect- they were there due to transmission failures 9 times out of 10.

On the trans: I would like to get rid of the TH400. It is just too inefficient. Leaning towards an Isuzu or Toyota trans and transfer case to keep the passenger drop and gain some efficiency. The Jeep gets 12 MPG now. My goal is to make 20MPG possible while fun to drive. Seems a 3800 with a good 5 speed could make that possible.

 

[TurboMinivan]

My goal is to make 20MPG possible while fun to drive. Seems a 3800 with a good 5 speed could make that possible.

This was another reason I suggested the 3800: it is known for achieving good economy, whereas the 4.3L is not. This could be partly due to their different applications... but, still. For the record, the F-body 3800 with a manual transmission was originally rated at 19/30 mpg city/hwy on its window sticker. Even adjusting down for today's more aggressive rating system, it still is rated for 17/28 mpg.

Even with your Jeep's comparatively poor aerodynamic properties, I think the 3800 will achieve your goal.

 

[OCNORB]

This was another reason I suggested the 3800: it is known for achieving good economy, whereas the 4.3L is not. This could be partly due to their different applications... but, still. For the record, the F-body 3800 with a manual transmission was originally rated at 19/30 mpg city/hwy on its window sticker. Even adjusting down for today's more aggressive rating system, it still is rated for 17/28 mpg.

Even with your Jeep's comparatively poor aerodynamic properties, I think the 3800 will achieve your goal.

True. Have not found an f-body yet. Only one in PNS and it has the 2.8L motor.

My wife's Willys has a PCI 4.3L and its fuel consumption is pretty high. It really isn't that powerful either, but that might be the 36x15.50 swampers...

 

[OCNORB]

OK. We are all in now...



Picked up a wrecked 1996 Firebird with a 3800 and a 5 speed today. Its a convertible and has 135K miles on it. Paid $300 for it not knowing for sure if it was a runner, but the owner seemed like an honest man so we loaded it up. (Loading cars sucks... :-\) Reminds me why I prefer 4wds.

The trip home was uneventful and I'm sure my neighbors hate me by now. I backed this in the driveway:



We hooked up a battery and cranked her over... to no avail. She cranked ok, but no fire. After a little break with the battery on the charger we tried again with a jump start from another car. I had Josh cycle the key- checked the pressure at the fuel rail and all was good. After a rough coughing start she finally jumped to life!! Not being started for 3 years has probably gummed up the fuel system. It smelled a little sour. After a few minutes the motor would idle perfectly. Oil pressure was about 65psi cold. We shut it down and restarted a few times and it now fired over almost effortlessly.

I hooked a scanner to the OBD2 port; no codes!! That was a good sign. The car had taken a serious hit to the driver front. The steering was snapped in two and I was afraid that some of the intake sensors may have been damaged.

Anyways after a few hours we had the motor, trans and wiring harness pulled free of the body. The wreck made it tougher than we anticipated. The plasma cutter was a great asset in the battle.

Here is where we left off:


Tomorrow we can just throw the hoist on it and pull it out from under the car so we can get it out of the driveway and to the scrapper ASAP. Then its transmission time.:sick:

 

[TurboMinivan]

:Like:

Wow, that is fantastic! Nice find.

 

[OCNORB]

Thank you KSL!

Well some projects seem to take forever and others just seem to sweep you along with them. This one is moving much faster than I had anticipated! Things seem to keep falling into place.

Picked up a transmission and transfer case that came out of an '89 Trooper today. It is fabled to have the correct GM 60 degree pattern and starter motor placement:



The Trooper trans is nearly a direct fit. My biggest concern is the input shaft size on the Trooper is quite a bit smaller than the T5 that came out of the car. The pilot bushing section of the shaft is exactly the same, so no worries there. Another interesting note is the length of the Isuzu transmission and transfer case is only about 4" longer than the T5!!



Not totally sold on this being 'the' trans. It was cheap enough to give it a shot.