Ex Senator Bob Bennett

[jackjoh]

I apologize if this is a repeat but I searched and could find no other reference.

It should be no surprise to anyone that Bob Bennett now works for the Wilderness Society since last March.
1. This should explain more fully his removal as a Senator from Utah.

2. But did you think about what it meant to have two Democrats (Bennett and Matheson) working on the Washington County Wilderness Bill? It meant the off road community got screwed and there was no way we were going to get the Canaan Mountain Sawmill Rd. opened.

3. He is donating his time to the Wilderness Society as a volunteer as an Ex Senator can not lobby for two years after leaving office. It is other people in the same office that will be doing the lobbying. And if you believe that there is a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in buying.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Jack, can you detail the actions the Wilderness Society has taken to close motorized access in Utah? I fully understand they are a proponent of Wilderness at large but I'm not familiar with any sweeping plans of theirs to yard sale close motorized access in Utah.

 

[anderson750]

They recently made a pitch to the Emery County public lands to use their map as the basis for their lands bill..........It had a whole lot of similarities to SUWA's ARRWA.

 

[Marsh99]

I apologize if this is a repeat but I searched and could find no other reference.

It should be no surprise to anyone that Bob Bennett now works for the Wilderness Society since last March.
1. This should explain more fully his removal as a Senator from Utah.

2. But did you think about what it meant to have two Democrats (Bennett and Matheson) working on the Washington County Wilderness Bill? It meant the off road community got screwed and there was no way we were going to get the Canaan Mountain Sawmill Rd. opened.

3. He is donating his time to the Wilderness Society as a volunteer as an Ex Senator can not lobby for two years after leaving office. It is other people in the same office that will be doing the lobbying. And if you believe that there is a bridge in Brooklyn you might bet interested in buying.

Bennett was a Republican...
Interested in buying ? I don't understand?

 

[jackjoh]

Think Suwa, Wild Lands and Wilderness Society they are all in the same boat. As Anderson said, both Emery and San Juan Counties have received negative responses from WS. If Bruce Babbitt and Hansjorg Wyss (Suwa) receive top Wilderness Society awards that should tell you something.

Did you think the Wilderness Society was on our side?

 

[jackjoh]

On second thought, take a look at their home page.

 

[jackjoh]

Tacoman99
Bennett was a RINO, Republican in name only, therefore he was the same as a democrat.
I was interested in unloading the Brooklyn Bridge purchased many years ago and was looking for someone gullible that would buy it. If you believe Bennett will not be helping the wilderness society in some way then maybe you would be a prospect for buying the bridge. Sorry about being obtuse and if you are interested pm me and we can discuss price.

 

[Marsh99]

Tacoman99
Bennett was a RINO, Republican in name only, therefore he was the same as a democrat.
I was interested in unloading the Brooklyn Bridge purchased many years ago and was looking for someone gullible that would buy it. If you believe Bennett will not be helping the wilderness society in some way then maybe you would be a prospect for buying the bridge. Sorry about being obtuse and if you are interested pm me and we can discuss price.

I am just getting more interested in land use issues. I am a pre-law student graduating this year and applying to law schools. I would love to help the cause, but it doesn't help when you don't explain situations. I only corrected you about Bennett because people make make mistakes like that with out being facetious.

 

[jackjoh]

Sorry about that, I have a tendency to be facetious and hopefully humorus but realy do not want it to bleed over into serious matters unless I can grab someones attention in doing so.
Here is the straight scoop. Bennett like so many in Utah has many what I would call liberal leanings but in order to get elected in Utah they run on the Republican ticket. It may be news to you that Hatch also was a Democrat before he became a Republican and I think the same could be said for Huntsman based on his actions and what he did as Governor. Having Bennett and Mathison work on the Washington County Wilderness bill was the same as having two Democrats running the show.

If you are a pre-law student it is good that you take things litterally. So, why don't you come to the U4WDA meeting tomorrow, 6:30 PM L H Miller Jeep in Sandy, and give us a hand with some of our legal situations that come before the board. If nothing else it would give you some hands on training as there is a great need for Environmental Lawyers that are on the side of four wheelers.

 

[JL Rockies]

I am just getting more interested in land use issues. I am a pre-law student graduating this year and applying to law schools. I would love to help the cause, but it doesn't help when you don't explain situations. I only corrected you about Bennett because people make make mistakes like that with out being facetious.

Why is your hope to get into law school relevant?

 

[JL Rockies]

So why do u need law school if you got it all figured out in pre law? Why are people in school called students if they already learned everything?
Please.

 

[Marsh99]

Sorry about that, I have a tendency to be facetious and hopefully humorus but realy do not want it to bleed over into serious matters unless I can grab someones attention in doing so.
Here is the straight scoop. Bennett like so many in Utah has many what I would call liberal leanings but in order to get elected in Utah they run on the Republican ticket. It may be news to you that Hatch also was a Democrat before he became a Republican and I think the same could be said for Huntsman based on his actions and what he did as Governor. Having Bennett and Mathison work on the Washington County Wilderness bill was the same as having two Democrats running the show.

If you are a pre-law student it is good that you take things litterally. So, why don't you come to the U4WDA meeting tomorrow, 6:30 PM L H Miller Jeep in Sandy, and give us a hand with some of our legal situations that come before the board. If nothing else it would give you some hands on training as there is a great need for Environmental Lawyers that are on the side of four wheelers.

Being a conservative and all I work full time swing shift and go to school during the day. That way I don't have to use government money for school. I wont be able to attend. If they are on fridays or on the weekend I would be their. I would love if you would send me the minutes from it.

I would love to get in contact with the lawyers helping the fight.
I'm very passionate and involved in the legal relm. I m currently on scholarship competing on the mock trial and moot court team at Weber State. I would love to start helping with land use issues.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Think Suwa, Wild Lands and Wilderness Society they are all in the same boat. As Anderson said, both Emery and San Juan Counties have received negative responses from WS. If Bruce Babbitt and Hansjorg Wyss (Suwa) receive top Wilderness Society awards that should tell you something.

Did you think the Wilderness Society was on our side?

What is our side exactly? Zero Wilderness? Usa-All's position which includes but is not limited to revoking the ability to police our own with ID#s and resisting increased fines for rogue users? That isn't my position? Saying WS=SUWA is akin to U4WDA=USA-ALL no? I'm for Wilderness in the places it belongs, who's side does that put me on? Why can't there be a true middle road? I've personally met with Heidi Macintosh and several reps from the Wilderness Society in the last few months, while it might be blind optimism, I truly thing there is room for some actual compromise on behalf of both sides. Interestingly enough it was a member of our 'OHV community' that asked why ATV's/moto's don't have an ID number to help self-police, why is that?

 

[anderson750]

I've personally met with Heidi Macintosh and several reps from the Wilderness Society in the last few months, while it might be blind optimism, I truly thing there is room for some actual compromise on behalf of both sides.

Going through the Emery County lands council meetings for the past year, I would have thought that there was some compromise and middle ground with the Wilderness Society. They constantly talked about middle ground in the public meetings, but would never really offer up their thoughts on routes and boundries.......just generalisms and vagueness. However, in a private meeting that they requested with the County Commissioners, they presented a map of their own that they wanted the commissioners to use as a basis for the lands bill that was very similar to SUWA's ARRWA.

Myself and a lot of my friends have a lot of time invested into ohv trails in the San Rafael and there is not much middle ground when the ohv community has already given so much up. How many preople realize that approximately 60% of the routes that were inventoried in the 2008 RMP for the Price F.O. were closed? I think the OHV community has given up enough and they need to fight for what remains. I am not against wilderness. I think that when something fits the definition of wilderness as defined by congress, it should be. However, much of what SUWA and now the Wilderness Society is proposing as wilderness, does not actually fit that definition. How many mines, roads, grazing ponds, etc. are in the San Rafael (man made distrubances) that lie within the proposed wilderness boundries?

Blind optimism.......I hope not.

 

[jackjoh]

This is going to be the long version. Back in 1976 I was the Conservation Coordinator for the California Association of 4 Wheel Drive Clubs and Jack Edwards was the Office Manager/Executive Director of the association. Jack was getting ready to retire and asked me to consider being the new ED. I was single and trying to take care of my kids and although the salary would have been close to what I made the move to Sacramento would have caused too much turmoil so I declined. Cal 4 got Ed Dunkley, who lived in Sacramento, to take the position and he was an excellent replacement for Jack Edwards. During discussions with Jack E. he made some statements that make excellent sense today.
1. Never go into negotiations with the thought you have to compromise.
2. As it stands now all of the public and private enterprise have equal access to public lands under the management of the BLM.
3. The Sierra Club, big nemesis at the time, wants to TAKE, Wilderness, what belongs to everyone and set it aside for their exclusive use under the guise of saving it for future generations and it was a big money maker for them.

With the above 35 year old guidance in mind I believe the following.
1. There are places in this country that deserve Wilderness but with the following classifications in mind. A. Zero human interference, let nature take its course. This caused quite a stir in the Sierra Club. B. Cherry stem roads and trails into Wilderness to exceptional sites, old mines, Ghost Towns, historical sites, archaeological and natural beauty sites. This is where compromise and negotiations take place between the DOI and public user group before the fact not after.

Before A. or B. can happen all of the present users and possible future uses would have to be considered.

That said, I do not think it will happen because the other side would have to give up too much. Heidi and Deeda take note.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...1. Never go into negotiations with the thought you have to compromise.

Sounds like the exact logic that got us where we are now, facing a 10 million acre Wilderness bill and losing trail mileage by the thousands. I wouldn't waste my time meeting with someone that had that mentality be it land use or planning a BBQ.

...3. The Sierra Club, big nemesis at the time, wants to TAKE, Wilderness, what belongs to everyone and set it aside for their exclusive use under the guise of saving it for future generations and it was a big money maker for them.

I guess its fuzzy logic, calling it their exclusive use whereas it is 100% accessible to all that can physically enter. I understand this limits a minor population of would be recreators but on the same hand could others not argue that by leaving routes un-paved we are excluding them from the activity? The Forest Service in American Fork Canyon disclosed that there has been some discussion of paving the entire North Fork road from Tibble Fork to Wasatch State Park, which the OHV community would obviously venomously oppose no? How is this any different? Also, how is it a guise of saving it for the future? Do you believe they have an ulterior motive i.e. they plan to sell it to China?

...With the above 35 year old guidance in mind I believe the following.
1. There are places in this country that deserve Wilderness but with the following classifications in mind. A. Zero human interference, let nature take its course.

You say that, I say that... yet the loud speakers in the OHV community are saying 'No more Wilderness', 'Take Back Utah', 'Give the control back to the State'. Its that extreme that forces and equal but opposite extreme and given our apathy and their bandwagon ability, its not equal, we are falling behind more and more each year. Our state is looking to close State Parks due to lack of funding and we want to give more of it to them? SITLA has closed more of their land (proportionally) to OHV use in the last 5 years than has the BLM.

...That said, I do not think it will happen because the other side would have to give up too much. Heidi and Deeda take note.

Again, an identical statement could be made for the counterparts. Brian and Mike take note.

What if all these sides could work together on education, stewardship with an end goal of working on a land use compromise? Now I know you won't show up to the negotiations to compromise but I would... What I won't show up to is a musical chairs circus debating hat pins and planning parades.