Fab shop liability

[troutbum]

So I am curious with all the shops now fabbing chassis. How do they cover themselves from lawsuits? I imagine LLC or Inc. protects the individual assets/property but what about the company assets? Do they have to have Cert. welders? Will anyone even insure this type of liability? I don't know of any shops that have been sued, but it has to be on their minds??

Anyone know?

 

[Tacoma]

Good question.

I would think that getting welders certified to satisfy any liability requirements wouldn't be too much of a burden to the shops, at least I really, really hope not. Personally, it's caveat emptor to me... Most everyone I know that is ready to have stuff built like that is able to select a good, quality shop to do the work....

 

[Badcop]

That simple question is the reason I have never baught one of these here before, what happenes if a crack occurs at 60mph on the freeway and the front end falls off, whos liable?

http://www.discountjeepparts.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/1454_2261_3155

 

[00Buck]

This would fall under the manufacture/shops product liability coverage. If the shop manufactured the product the is coverage called "strict product liability"- basically no questions asked, if they are at fault, if the product was defected or poor workmanship. If the product was purchased from let's say a spring manufacture the installing shop would pass or tender the "product liability" onto the manufacture. But if there was faulty workmanship there would be coverage under the shops Garage keepers/ liability insurance.
So basically if your a shop installing and manufacturing things better have the coverage to back yourself up incase of a claim or incident.
But then there is also the investigation part of it as well, was it the shops fault that product failed or was it more wear and tear.
My 2 cents.
Also check you personal auto insurance coverage for your buggy, crawler or wheeler. Most policies exclude coverage for any kind of race, competion or practicing for a competion. But if you just out having fun-then you should be covered. It's the PIP or personal injury protection that you want coverage for, it will cover you and you passengers usually between $3000 and $10000- check you policy.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Disclaimers...

 

[Milner]

Honestly, nothing matters if the lawyer is good/bad enough.
LLC's, insurance, disclaimers are are good, but it all goes out the window if they (lawyer) can show neglect in any way. Remeber civil cases are decided by the proponderance of the evidence, NOT beyond a reasonable doubt. Meaning if it is more likely than not, your SOL.

Especially suspension and steering work ALWAYS made me very nervious!!!! Honestly it is one reason (many others ) that I do not do work at home for people.

 

[Rickomatic]

As long as there is a yo-yo that is sue happy and they find some lawyer willing to go for it, then we all must pay out the nose to get things done.

 

[troutbum]

So basically if your a shop installing and manufacturing things better have the coverage to back yourself up incase of a claim or incident.

Who is going to write a policy for a tube buggy mfgs? They very nature of the product I think would make it very expensive to insure

 

[00Buck]

It would be considered high risk insurance, the same type of insurance compainies that insure pharmaceuticals, medical equipment, chemicals, enviromental exposures. The the insurer is going to makes sure there are safe guards in place to limit losses.

 

[00Buck]

Example--- Manufacturing Insurance

CNA is among the country's largest and most experienced providers of manufacturing insurance. We are a preferred choice of manufacturers because we recognize and respond to the unique challenges facing the industry. CNA's broad manufacturing appetite extends to more than 90 percent of the industry, ranging from local shops to national operations. Our international capabilities provide insurance solutions to manufacturing operations worldwide.

In addition to high-quality property and casualty protection, we offer specialized coverages and risk control services to meet the wide ranging insurance needs of the manufacturing industry. Our skilled underwriting, risk control and claim professionals understand the challenges that you face every day. We have earned the endorsement of key manufacturing associations and have developed innovative, customized programs for many different types of manufacturers

Partnering closely with you and your agent, CNA provides insurance solutions that work for manufacturers.

 

[bobdog]

Example--- Manufacturing Insurance

CNA is among the country's largest and most experienced providers of manufacturing insurance. We are a preferred choice of manufacturers because we recognize and respond to the unique challenges facing the industry. CNA's broad manufacturing appetite extends to more than 90 percent of the industry, ranging from local shops to national operations. Our international capabilities provide insurance solutions to manufacturing operations worldwide.

In addition to high-quality property and casualty protection, we offer specialized coverages and risk control services to meet the wide ranging insurance needs of the manufacturing industry. Our skilled underwriting, risk control and claim professionals understand the challenges that you face every day. We have earned the endorsement of key manufacturing associations and have developed innovative, customized programs for many different types of manufacturers

Partnering closely with you and your agent, CNA provides insurance solutions that work for manufacturers.

Thanks for that advertisement.

 

[harkinoff]

Alex, what do you have planned here.. Rig wise

 

[troutbum]

I am mid project with the scout. started over. Literally. I used that frame we stripped. 451 BB, and rear 4 link, 3 link front w/ panhard coilovers. Everything should be tacked in soon. Test fit the tub one last time and burn it all in. I keep meaning to post a build up thread...but between the new kid and actual work on the scout I haven't taken very many pics.

The shop question was unrelated to the scout.

 

[StrobeNGH]

Honestly, nothing matters if the lawyer is good/bad enough.
LLC's, insurance, disclaimers are are good, but it all goes out the window if they (lawyer) can show neglect in any way. Remeber civil cases are decided by the proponderance of the evidence, NOT beyond a reasonable doubt. Meaning if it is more likely than not, your SOL.

Umm . . . not quite;
If your business is an LLC, personal assets are NOT touchable. There is no way that an attorney can get at the personal assets of a partner/owner in a properly operated and registered LLC.

There COULD be case law allowing Plaintiffs to go after personal assets if there is evidence of fraud by the LLC to shelter assets . . . But it will be VERY difficult to prove.

When you form an LLC, you register the companies assets with the Department of State. That is what attorneys look at when they sue a LLC. The attorney will have no idea what your personal assets are, nor will an attorney be able to successfully go after your assets.
If you do everything right, there is NO WAY an attorney (no matter how good) can get to your personal assets (this is an offshoot of the concept of 'Piercing the Corporate Veil,' which, again, requires fraud to allow a Plaintiff to get after non-company assets).

Also, neglect is an element in proving a claim. The presence of neglect doesn't void contractual, or legal protections.
That is what fraud and waivers are for.

 

[StrobeNGH]

Besides, if you have insurance, why would an attorney go after your personal property?
This is WHY you have insurance. They have billions in assets for attorneys to go after, which is what they do.

There are two reasons why states require companies to carry insurance. First, it protects injured people against insolvent companies. Second, it protects the companies assets

 

[Caleb]

Umm . . . not quite;
If your business is an LLC, personal assets are NOT touchable. There is no way that an attorney can get at the personal assets of a partner/owner in a properly operated and registered LLC.

There COULD be case law allowing Plaintiffs to go after personal assets if there is evidence of fraud by the LLC to shelter assets . . . But it will be VERY difficult to prove.

When you form an LLC, you register the companies assets with the Department of State. That is what attorneys look at when they sue a LLC. The attorney will have no idea what your personal assets are, nor will an attorney be able to successfully go after your assets.
If you do everything right, there is NO WAY an attorney (no matter how good) can get to your personal assets (this is an offshoot of the concept of 'Piercing the Corporate Veil,' which, again, requires fraud to allow a Plaintiff to get after non-company assets).

Also, neglect is an element in proving a claim. The presence of neglect doesn't void contractual, or legal protections.
That is what fraud and waivers are for.

uh, I DON'T think he meant they would be coming after personal assests. I think he was just pointing out that no matter what waivers, disclaimers, the company type, etc you do they are only about as good as the paper they are written on. They won't hold up if they can prove any type of neglect on the company's part. Doesn't mean they will be coming after the owners personal assests, but rather the company can still be held liable. You picked one little part of his statement out and went with it when if you had read through the whole thing it would have been perfectly clear, he never said a thing about personal property.