Gov Engine Swap info

[crimsonride]

This has been on my mind, mybe someone can help me.

Soon I'm replacing my worn out 1984 chev carbed 2.8 V6 with a 95 or newer low mileage chev 3.4 fuel injected V6.

I'm not even sure if this is legal or not since the engine wasn't origionally offered in this vehicle, so are there legal issues that I have to deal with concerning this?
Will I have any problems emissioning this with a different engine than intended on this.

I've figured that the new engine should be cleaner emissions-wise than my old engine and it's the same block just 4mm wider bore and 4mm longer stroke so maybe it can pass as the same engine just a fuel injected, bored and stroked version.

Anyway, someone share their wise-ness please and let me know what I'm going to run into.

thanks
chris

 

[Caleb]

as long as its a clean install then you should ahve much problem...basically you will have to pass a visual test and they wont know the diff between a 2.8L and a 3.4L like you said...same block externally...just make sure its burning as clean as or cleaner(which shouldn;t be a problem)...I think it needs to be an engine from the same year or newer which you will have that covered...I dont see any problems for you...

 

[BBowski82]

Might I just add something....take it or leave it.

I am a former GM tech and am GM certified. The 3.4L is known for eating injectors and having terrible cold start knock problems.

The injectors go out almost systematicly when the gas stations change fuel typer (change with the seasons)

The cold knock, which eats pistons and cylinder walls, is due to lack of coating (teflon) on pistons from the factory. the factory fix is to replace all the pistons with new ones with teflon patches on both sides. Sounds weird, but its true....

Just thought I'd let ya'll know

 

[crimsonride]

Thanks for the help. I was kinda thinking of the Holley 670 cfm throttle body fuel injection kit and hyperutectic (spelling?) pistons. That along with some other goodies like a cam and roller rockers. I figure I might as well get that out of the way while I'm at it.
So with that in mind do you think I would run into the same problems? Should be emissions legal right?

 

[BBowski82]

Emissions shouldn't be a problem, I mean any FI is going to run cleaner than a carb, plus to run a 3.4, you'll be getting a newer motor that the 2.8 anyhow.

As far as the hyperutectic pistons...I couldn't say. I want to say that the pistons used in the 3.4s stock are aluminum. I'm sure they are not the same as far as silicon content and what not though.

My suggestion would be to go with a 3.8 liter. they are great motors(run ineverything from the Grand National to pontiacs and olds) and run forever(literally) Shoot for a newer even fire one.

 

[Too Far]

This is a pretty popular swap with the early model isuzu crowd. All of the 2.8-3.1 isuzu motors were fuel injected though. Since you are staying in the 60* familly I doubt any inspector would notice you even swapped.
When I swapped from a '87 4 cyl. carb to a '94 24 valve 3.2 mpfi motor I went to the county run smog shop and had them inspect it. They looked it over and then gave me a document that states that any inspection station can inspect it as a '87 model. This has worked great for me the last few years. I just show the inspector the paper and he goes about his business without question.

 

[Caleb]

a cool swap that is still a 60* motor(or atleast the same bellhousing) is a short star...that is what A LOT of guys are getting for their rigs...Mike Shaffer started it all and now they are hard to find...check out the newest Petersons they have an article about them...

 

[BBowski82]

the 3.8 is a 60* motor also

 

[Caleb]

Originally posted by BBowski82
the 3.8 is a 60* motor also

the 3.8L is a 229 and is a 90* motor...unless there was a different version?!?!?!

 

[BBowski82]

Engine blocks like the 3.8L transverse (front wheel drive vehicle) have the same bolt pattern as the Chevy 2.8L V6

 

[crimsonride]

I was thinking the 3.8 was a 90* engine also. It's not listed on my 60* forum as a 60* engine.
Now, I'm not as concerned with emissions. I'm sure whatever I get it'll run cleaner than the motor I have now.
What's a shortstar? I've heard about them all the time but I really don't know what they are. Aren't they a cadilac engine with DOHC? I'm shooting for ease of installation here, that's why I wanted to go with the 3.4. I was looking at taking a 3400 DOHC front wheel drive engine and making it work but that might be a lot of word. It sure would be cool though and I like the 210 hp stock.

 

[crimsonride]

Originally posted by BBowski82
Engine blocks like the 3.8L transverse (front wheel drive vehicle) have the same bolt pattern as the Chevy 2.8L V6

So does that mean I can bolt the 3.8 front wheel drive engine to my trans. What do I do for motormounts?

 

[BBowski82]

The shortstar is a mini Northstar....I'm not sure what I think about them. I am not a fan of the Northstar....I mean its cool, but I have worked on them(not fun) almost seems like to much electronics for a 4x4 rig.

As for the 3.8, I suppose you would have to run a motor plate, like the racers do...because there are no mounts cast into the side of the block.

 

[crimsonride]

Originally posted by BBowski82
The shortstar is a mini Northstar....I'm not sure what I think about them. I am not a fan of the Northstar....I mean its cool, but I have worked on them(not fun) almost seems like to much electronics for a 4x4 rig.

As for the 3.8, I suppose you would have to run a motor plate, like the racers do...because there are no mounts cast into the side of the block.

Well at least a motor plate would be easy to do, but I'm not real sure how I would do one with my unibody. Maybe it'll work. I don't think I would really like all the vibration either since my cherokee is my daily driver, not my 4 wheel rig.

What cars are the northstar's found in anyway? I like the DOHC idea of it but it sounds like they would be really hard to find.

 

[BBowski82]

problem is its a fairly new motor...like 3 or 4 years

From the 1998 NY auto show---
"GM's newest multivalve V6 engine, nicknamed Shortstar by journalists to indicate its origins in the Cadillac Northstar V8, broke cover in New York. The aluminum 3.5-liter engine, slated for installation in the '99 Oldsmobile Intrigue, produces 215 hp and
230 lb.-ft. of torque. Being a 90 degree V-angle design, the new premium V6 takes a counter-rotating balance shaft to control vibration and departs from Northstar design practice in using rocker arms to open the valves, rather than direct-acting tappets."

So you can expect to spend some bucks...other problem is that when vehicles went to OBD2 they started adding more O2 sensors(from 1 to 4) and the PCM also looks for all kinds of diff info like EVAP system pressure and what not
What all this means is that you have to "fool" the PCM into seeing this stuff...which isn't hard, it just means money.

This is why the TBI swaps are so popular. The engine runs off of what they call "speed density". what that means is the PCM only looks for MAP (manifold absolute pressure), CTS (coolant temp), and RPM to determine fuel and spark curves.

The new engines run on what is called a MAF (mass air flow) system. It is more precise but also involves more complex electronics to make it run.

So short story is...The newer the motor the more money

Hope this wasn't too long

 

[Caleb]

Originally posted by BBowski82

So short story is...The newer the motor the more money

I think you hit it right there...look at the Vortecs even...they take more money and time then just the regular TBIs...the shortstar is super light with pretty good stock power is why guys are using it...but it does have its quirks...like you wanna change the starter...its under the the intake manifold...really I was just kidding about running it...if you are trying to build a super light buggy then its something to consider but if you're not then its not worth it IMO...

 

[PEELBOY]

im new to utah so i do not know
how the state feels about emissions
and out of state plates, but if you want
to get around emissions and all the junk
just visit http://www.dmv.state.vt.us/
registration/registration.htm. you can register a vehicle from vermont even if you have never lived there
and do not plan on moving there ever.
it cost me 92 $ for two years of registration
and no checks of emissions or safety. let me
know if there are any problems with this solution.

 

[crimsonride]

Thanks for the advice. It's helpfull. I think I might stay with the 3.4, I'm sure I can get close to 200 hp from it for a reasonable price. The 3.8 sounds nice though but I don't know about using hard mounting plates in an XJ.
Has anyone done that before?

 

[crimsonride]

Originally posted by PEELBOY
im new to utah so i do not know
how the state feels about emissions
and out of state plates, but if you want
to get around emissions and all the junk
just visit http://www.dmv.state.vt.us/
registration/registration.htm. you can register a vehicle from vermont even if you have never lived there
and do not plan on moving there ever.
it cost me 92 $ for two years of registration
and no checks of emissions or safety. let me
know if there are any problems with this solution.

So do you have vermont plates on your truck?

 

[kb7sei]

If you get pulled over, the cop will hassle you about the out of state registration on your rig. I got pulled for speeding with a utah license and Arizona registration and the guy had a fit. They figgure if you're license says Utah, the registration should too. I got out of it because the car wasn't reged in my name, I told him I borrowed it from visiting relatives.

Didn't get the speeding ticket either.