Ham radio question...

[OCNORB]

Ok,

So I'm a total newb. Currently taking the technician class, will be testing in a few weeks. Been listening in on a hacked together-on-the-kitchen-table system which uses an Icom IC-2800 that I picked up at a garage sale a few years ago. I've always wanted to jump into this and finally have some time.

I'm looking to the experienced Ham guys here for a bit of advice. I'd like to purchase a handheld for use on back-country trips, so I'm already leaning towards a radio with the built in GPS. Short list includes the Icom ID-51A +, Yaesu FT1DR, and the Kenwood THD-72A. Watched a ton of video reviews online about the Icom and Yaesu radios and the differences in D-Star and Fusion.

The app that Icom has that allows you to control the radio with a tablet or android phone gives it the edge in my uneducated mind. With the maps capabilities and the built-in GPS displayed on a nice tablet or smartphone it *SEEMS* like it would be a good way to combine communications and off-road navigation into one compact package that can still be used for other activities. Seems that D-Star repeaters are the dominant type around here.

So what does the experienced Ham with years of wisdom on the subject think of these handhelds? Are the digital sides worth worrying about?

Any advice from the gurus is welcome. I know Mbryson has been involved...

 

[nnnnnate]

I don't know that many of the guys here have experience with fancy handhelds. Most of the guys I've been on the trail with just have the Baofeng UV-5Rs (and variants) because they are cheap and durable. I know Kurt runs a Kenwood D710 (? exact model number) in his 100 with APRS that we were talking about on freeze your tail off. I intend to install a mobile ham in my rig and figure out repeaters and such but really all the runs I've been on if guys do have ham they are using simplex mode (car to car without a repeater.) I don't know everyone here but you might have better luck checking with a more technical ham board.

I know my brother has a Yaesu FT-60R thats been used like twice (we got certified at the same time) that he is wanting to sell. If you have any interest I can get the details for you.

 

[mbryson]

I have had my license for quite a while now. I really don't use the radio a lot but when I do, I really like it (mostly Jeeping or if I'm running with a group that has them on a long trip or similar). It's only about 500 times better than the best CB. I don't have a 2 meter handheld but if you are seeing stuff with a decent interface, I might have to start looking at radios again (for the record, my Yaesu's are dead nuts reliable and such but I have to read the manual whenever I want to do anything other than turn it on and change the preprogrammed frequencies---seems like they mfg could do a little better than that to me?). I don't use my radios much because they are ANNOYING to program and operate through their interface. If that interface is modernizing, it would likely increase my use?

 

[OCNORB]

Thanks for the responses. I purposely asked here because I know that the answers will be more "real world " practical than a ham enthusiasts site.

Check out this video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o1TGr_v4aiw

Skim through it and you can see the mapping bit. I've loaded the app and it seems solid so far. Makes the setup look much easier.

 

[OCNORB]

To me this huge... especially if it can show your buddy's position on your Smartphone map.

 

[TurboMinivan]

OP: sorry, I have precisely zero digital ham experience.

Most of the guys I've been on the trail with just have the Baofeng UV-5Rs (and variants) because they are cheap and durable.

I would heartily agree: the Baofengs are certainly cheap. I'd never describe one as durable, however.

I intend to install a mobile ham in my rig and figure out repeaters and such but really all the runs I've been on if guys do have ham they are using simplex mode (car to car without a repeater.)

We usually do use simplex to communicate as a group. However, this doesn't mean you would never use a repeater on a trail. While running The Pickle at EJS 2015, for example, I was alone with no other hams in the group and I was a little bored, so I used the Bald Mesa repeater (which is part of a linked system) to contact a friend back home in Utah county.

I know my brother has a Yaesu FT-60R thats been used like twice

Besides my Baofeng, I also have an FT-60R. It doesn't do anything digital, but it's an extremely rugged dual-band HT that goes with me on every Jeep run just in case.

(for the record, my Yaesu's are dead nuts reliable and such but I have to read the manual whenever I want to do anything other than turn it on and change the preprogrammed frequencies---seems like they mfg could do a little better than that to me?). I don't use my radios much because they are ANNOYING to program and operate through their interface.

Which model is your Yaesu, Marc? I know it is 2m-only, but I don't recall which exact one you have. I ask because my FT-7900R dual-band is a piece of cake to operate and program manually, even on the fly. I find it easier to use and program than the FT-2900R 2m-only model I owned before it, for the record.

 

[Unimog]

I'll qualify this by saying I've been ham licensed for years - use it only occasionally. Consider this an amateur opinion:

I have a couple of baofengs and a kenwood handy. The baofengs are ok for what you pay for them. They don't feel as well-made as the kenwood or the icom/yaesu models I've used. None of them are anything close to easy to use. I have to keep a manual around to do programming or anything. The software and connection to them is pretty bad, too.

I went down the road of the GPS/radio thing with FRS radios - Garmin Rino. I sold them about a year ago. My finding was they were more difficult to use and inferior in function than separate radio/gps devices. The being able to see your buddy was mildly useful, but not worth putting up with the rest of the package.

What little investigation I've done of APRS is you would have to be a real ham geek to get excited about it. It is cool, but definitely not plug and play. I'd love to hear different from someone who has actually used it.

I read back over this and it sounds like a pretty negative view of things. I'm not a radio enthusiast, so the radio is just a tool for me. I just wish someone would build a cheap, reliable, compact model that was easy to use. It might be that my requirements are conflicting.

 

[mbryson]

....Which model is your Yaesu, Marc? I know it is 2m-only, but I don't recall which exact one you have. I ask because my FT-7900R dual-band is a piece of cake to operate and program manually, even on the fly. I find it easier to use and program than the FT-2900R 2m-only model I owned before it, for the record.

I have an 1802 (?) (I think) and a 2800. One in the JKU, the other in the trail Jeep. I need to get something for my 7.3L

 

[OCNORB]

I'll qualify this by saying I've been ham licensed for years - use it only occasionally. Consider this an amateur opinion:
I went down the road of the GPS/radio thing with FRS radios - Garmin Rino. I sold them about a year ago. My finding was they were more difficult to use and inferior in function than separate radio/gps devices. The being able to see your buddy was mildly useful, but not worth putting up with the rest of the package.

If the Rino had been a more powerful radio and had a screen with the resolution and clarity of a modern smartphone would you still think this?

I read back over this and it sounds like a pretty negative view of things. I'm not a radio enthusiast, so the radio is just a tool for me. I just wish someone would build a cheap, reliable, compact model that was easy to use. It might be that my requirements are conflicting.

Appreciate the honest sentiment. I'm looking for simplicity and quality, but if I can combine a few functions I have a weakness for items in my kit that have multiple uses. They have to be intuitive. A good product is one that you read the instructions for once and 2 years later you can pick the product up and still use it.

 

[Unimog]

If the Rino had been a more powerful radio and had a screen with the resolution and clarity of a modern smartphone would you still think this?

Frankly, the radio was enough for 90% of what I want to do, but I do like being able to hit repeaters with the ham. The rest was half resolution and the other half was the lack of an intuitive interface on the gps functions.

 

[rambrush]

Well one item you can utilize is your Android phone and download the app called aprsdroid and set it up. then you can wander over to the website aprs.fi then you can see who is on the go in your area. I use the Kenwood D72 and it works great with a external antenna. Then I have a Wouxon that is my normal carry everywhere. My Kenwood TH6 was being primarily used for the 220 band repeaters but it has not held up well. There is the I-15 interttie repeater system and it allows for communications from Idaho falls all the way down to Las Vegas so thats a good one to have in the radio. Some repeaters are now using digital tones and you will need a newer radio that allows for that. My older ICOM 706mkIIG mobile ran into that issue while down and around Mt Charleston had to program the handheld for that repeater.
I have a handheld GPS along as well plus a gps antenna with USB and it can plug into my laptop map software.
So many choices welcome to the ham radio world.

 

[TurboMinivan]

I forgot to ask the OP something.

I'd like to purchase a handheld for use on back-country trips

Are you looking for a radio to use in your vehicle, or for when you are on foot? If it is the former, handheld radios are lousy for use in a vehicle. If it is the latter, a handheld makes sense. (I presume it is the latter based on your comments; I ask simply for clarification.)

I need to get something for my 7.3L

Before you make a decision, you should take some time and fiddle with the 7900 in one of my vehicles. I think you would find it easier to use compared to your current radios. Maybe this weekend at Brett's cabin....

 

[nnnnnate]

What mobile antenna are you using for you 7900? I need to pick up a radio and antenna here in the next little bit.

 

[OCNORB]

I forgot to ask the OP something.



Are you looking for a radio to use in your vehicle, or for when you are on foot? If it is the former, handheld radios are lousy for use in a vehicle. If it is the latter, a handheld makes sense. (I presume it is the latter based on your comments; I ask simply for clarification.

I will probably mount my IC-2800 in the Landcruiser.

The HT would be used when on foot or *possibly* when on two wheels.

Still trying to get a handle on its functionality and practicality.

My dream handheld would be a Delorme Inreach with a built in radio. Not sure it's feasible, but one can dream.

 

[mbryson]

....Before you make a decision, you should take some time and fiddle with the 7900 in one of my vehicles. I think you would find it easier to use compared to your current radios. Maybe this weekend at Brett's cabin....

I'd like to come up but we had JUST confirmed plans elsewhere when we learned of that option.

 

[TurboMinivan]

What mobile antenna are you using for you 7900?

A Larsen NMO2/70B. I have seen more than one experienced ham refer to this as a reference antenna, and now that I've personally witnessed its performance I would agree. It put my former econocar's Tram 1181 to shame in side-by-side testing, for example. RME member gijohn can tell you about our trip on Elephant Hill last year--I was having entire conversations with distant Jeepers that he couldn't even hear in his rig (and he was only a coupe vehicles in front of me).

This is why, when I put another Yaesu FT-7900 in my Suburban, I didn't even think about it--I matched it to another NMO2/70B antenna.

I will probably mount my IC-2800 in the Landcruiser.

The HT would be used when on foot or *possibly* when on two wheels.

Okay, that makes sense and is what I had figured you might do.

I'd like to come up but we had JUST confirmed plans elsewhere when we learned of that option.

Ah, rats. Okay, another time. (Maybe in Moab if I don't see you before then.)

 

[nnnnnate]

Have any of you ham guys looked much at the Yaesu FTM-400XDR? I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on it but thought I'd ask. From the looks of it, its a updated version of the FTM-400DR and has a better GPS which will lock on much quicker. Other than that its got APRS and dual RX and a big fancy color touch screen. A few places have suggested the Kenwood D710 over this one but I'm kind of digging the larger color screen that the Yaesu has. After rebates the Yaesu is about $80 cheaper as well sitting at around $500.

I know you can do APRS cheaper with a standalone radio and a module but I think I'd prefer to have it all built in and packaged together. I don't know enough about C4FM and Fusion to know whether they are a pro or con. I know Kurt runs the Kenwood in the Death Star but I'm not sure what he is putting in the 200.

I'm looking at getting a mobile installed before Cruise Moab the first week of May. With the price of the FTM-400 or the D710 I'll be using my mag mount antenna for a bit rather than doing a hard mount antenna right off the bat. I'd probably wait until I got the rebate to order it. I've been using the mag mount antenna as an external antenna for my Baofeng UV5-R and it has done its job really well. The antenna is capable of 50 watt TX so it should be up to the task of a real mobile unit, at least temporarily.

 

[OCNORB]

That looks like a nice radio. The display is similar to my IC -2800H. It would be nice if the radio manufacturers could settle on some digital standard. I have an ID-51a that I bought just to play with the Dstar repeaters and digital simplex. Range in digital simplex is impressive for a handheld. That Yaesu Group monitoring function would be great if others in the group run the same.
KI7CKR