help me choose my next bike

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
I'll bet you're right andrew. I was getting about 5" of sag in the rear, so I stiffened it up. I haven't touched the front forks because I thought they felt great. But now that I look back I realize how stupid that is.

Yes, I'm typically crashing at slow speeds. Last night was a quicker one. I was doing about 15 MPH uphill, and I just spun out. I did a 270 before I even knew it. BUt that was probably because I was exhausted. I'll look into the suspension. I can't afford anything fancy, so I'll resort to what I can do with the damping and rebound settings.

I'm going to test-ride a tw200 tomorrow to see what I think about it. And I'll take Caleb's bike out one of these days. I just don't want to lay it down, I'd feel terrible.
 

Rot Box

Diesel and Dust
Supporting Member
Location
Smithfield Utah
There is a fine line between too much sag and not enough and even a little bit one way or the other goes long ways. Any time the spring tension is adjusted the race and static sag MUST be measured and set properly or handling goes completely out the window. Some bikes (especially linkless KTM's) need specific settings, but this should help you get in the ballpark:

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=271134

http://www.tootechracing.com/Static Sag Suspension Tip.htm

Before your next ride try setting up the rear sag then adjust all the clickers out (shock reb/comp and fork reb/comp) to the softest setting and tune in from there. I'll bet the difference is night and day.

And I'll take Caleb's bike out one of these days. I just don't want to lay it down, I'd feel terrible.

Haha understandable. I don't know how Caleb feels about it but I always tell everyone that rides my bike they couldn't possibly hurt my bike worse than I could :D
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
I just got back from a great ride with scott, tyson, and scott's BIL. I got to ride the TW up trail 40, and it's amazing how mellow that thing is. What a mountain goat! I really appreciate you guys letting me ride one on the trail.

Now that I've ridden both side by side, there's no doubt that I prefer my bike. It's much more aggressive to ride, but that's what makes it so fun. I rode for about 3 hours today and didn't crash once. It's probably because I set a pretty relaxed pace, but it was nice to complete the day without having to pick my bike up a single time. Maybe I just need to become a better rider. So I'm happy with my bike for now. The TW didn't feel nimble like mine, and the low footpegs got too close to the rocks for comfort.
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
I've tried one. Too short of a wheelbase. I felt like I was going to wheelie out everywhere I went. I'm thinking I just need to wheel easier trails for a while until my skill develops.
 

rholbrook

Well-Known Member
Location
Kaysville, Ut
Steve

Try a set of smaller wheels and change your front sproket a tooth

I know this may sound goofy but it may just get you the inch or two you may need. I would also get an auto clutch like Caleb suggested. I love mine and would never own a bike without one. It will improve your abilities tremendously.
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
are you thinking 17" wheels? I've got 19's right now, but 18's would put me at the same height, with more sidewall.

My front sprocket is already down a tooth, and the rear is plus 2 teeth, so gearing is plenty low.

I'm only aware of one company that makes an autoclutch for the kdx200 right now. I'll have to try one out and see if it's worth saving my pennies.

I mainly crash on steep, long hills that have loose gravel/rock on them. I lose traction, then I try to start out in the middle of the hill. I can barely stand it up and keep it from sliding backwards, then kickstarting it is another adventure. I try to stop near a rock I can step on, but half the time I plan on making it up the trail and I can't really plan where I crash. THe main part that kills me is when I get stuck in the middle of a hill with loose rocks. with a 4t I'd be able to just put it in first and crawl up it. With this bike, I need about 10 feet to hit the little power band to get up it. I think an autoclutch would help.

when I can get a ride in where I don't crash at all, I LOVE the bike. When I'm moving and in control, the height isn't a problem at all. It's just when I'm about to crash, or after a crash when I try to get started again that I have a problem with the height.
 

Vonski

nothing to see here...
Location
Payson, Utah
I'm thinking I just need to wheel easier trails for a while until my skill develops.

I'm no expert (and who is really?), but after following your posts for some time, I think the comment above is the best solution and attitude to have.

Some of us were lucky enough to grow up on bikes from an early age. As a kid, I was too small for my first couple bikes and crashed plenty, simply for that reason. I didn't have the option to get a different bike or change much, so I just kept riding, had fun, and didn't over-think things.

OK, so you'd feel more comfortable if the bike was lower, I get that. My recommendation is this: Forget about physics and geometry and atleast re-consider a lowering-link. At this point in time, is a lowering-link really going to make a negative impact on your riding abilities? I know its not the "correct" thing to do (and I don't fault people for people telling you not to), but lets put this in perspective... you're a recreational trail rider and this is your first season riding. Not to mention that most people don't start out riding technical single track trails. A lowering link will have little or no bearing on your development at this point (or possibly ever).

I'm not against mods to personalize or dial-in a bike (as my bike is definitely not stock), but I'm just not seeing anything really wrong with the bike you've built, other than it may be a little tall for you.

If you added a lowering link (and adjusted the related fork height of course), you'd obviously notice the difference in height, but I believe anything beyond that would mostly be in your head. If you CAN tell a difference in handling, you'll adapt.

Going a bit further on the link topic... what specifically do you like about your OEM-height suspension now? What do you have to compare it to? How do you know it is setup properly as-is? The topic of suspension is a can of worms and is to some degree irrelevant when the common denominator in your struggles is you, not this bike.

I hope you don't think I'm picking on you, because thats really not my intent. Youre enthusiasm towards learning to ride and building a hybrid bike is really cool. I read your posts on RME and Motoutah and see how much fun you're having with this new hobby. However, I'd hate to see you get bogged down or overwhelmed with too much input and information, taking the fun out of it. Sure, there are setup changes and parts that will help you handle the bike better and boost your confidence, but there is no getting around paying your dues with crashes, and alot of them.

Speaking of crashes, I ride with some people that rarely ever crash (or don't at all anymore). Yeah, they're good riders, but they've also decided not to push themselves anymore and want to stay in their comfort zone or only stick to the trails they know. No matter what your skill level, if you don't crash (or have some close calls) from time to time, you're not riding hard enough to progress. Actually, I went riding this last weekend and put my bike down a couple times. They were preventable and I could have chosen easier routes, but I learned things that I wouldn't have if taking it easy.

Don't worry about any sort of "ideal" setup for now (if there is such a thing), as there will always be time later for that. Regardless of lowering links, auto-clutches, or anything else, focus most on getting out riding and gaining more experience.

Anyway, thats my .02.
 

Corban_White

Well-Known Member
Location
Payson, AZ
Von may put in his .02 but it's worth at least a few $$. Listen. You may like the lowering link a whole lot better on the 125 chassis than you did on the 200 chassis.
 

pELYgroso

'Merica
Location
LEHI, UT
Von may put in his .02 but it's worth at least a few $$. Listen. You may like the lowering link a whole lot better on the 125 chassis than you did on the 200 chassis.

*this

and also what Vonski said....

The 125 suspension will be a bit stiffer than the 200 suspesion, and may not bottom out like the 200 did...even a 1 inch lowering link will make a big difference in how well you can stand the bike up and maybe little to no difference in how it feels on the trail.

Also, you're honestly learning really fast and doing an awesome job Steve! I don't know anybody else who has started riding and started riding AF Canyon single track in the same season! My wife has been riding for a few years and I feel like she is pretty capable on her xr200, but I still won't take her on the single track....I don't know if that means anything to you or not, but IMO, you're doing a lot harder riding than I would probably have the balls to do if it were my 1st season riding!

Just keep it up and you'll see yourself getting better every ride!
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
thanks for the encouragement guys. I'm thinking a 1" lowering link is the next step. It wasn't bad last ride, I didn't crash so it was fine. I guess I thought the trails up afc aren't that technical, but it's good to hear that they're not beginner trails. I do get better each time I go up there, so maybe I just need some more patience.
 

thefirstzukman

Finding Utah
Supporting Member
Me personally, I don't think your doing too bad and wouldn't think you were a new rider at all.. I've only had the chance to ride with you 1 time and after reading how you were saying you were having troubles I was impressed. Each person has their own riding style, I like to push myself as far as I can but at the same time be safe. I have been riding all my life and usually end up riding with rookies, I enjoy watching people progress.

I like being able to come close to flat footing my bikes for single track riding.... It works for me, and at the same time you will rarely see me foot down when riding, it's all about body English controlling the bike and piggies on the pegs.. Too much crap on a single track to grab you and cause damage to you.

Just keep riding the fun stuff and if you don't stop you don't have to start again:D I'll nip at your back tire and push you along!
 
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