Hunting with large bore Rifles

[thefirstzukman]

Just up for debate... This can't get personal or too heated or I will just delete it.

I like hunting with large caliber rifles, really big.. What are your opinions on hunting big game like a deer or elk with a 338 lapua? My Dad wanted to borrow mine for his elk hunt and the guys guiding him said he can't bring it because it will destroy the elk. I just told him that they are in educated about the caliber and to do what he wants.. I don't care if he uses it, it costs a ton to shoot. I set him up with a box of Nosler trophy hunter 225 grain bullets, they are a good quality bonded bullet and were $101.54 a box out the door. I love the rifle, it is a Savage 110 long range hunter, it shoots like a dream and weighs 11 pounds even with the mag empty. When I threw 3 rounds down it to make sure he was good with the light bullet it shot a .364" group at 200 yards. Not bad for a hunting rifle and I know that's 1 group and only 3 rounds but at $5.00 a shot 3 will do.


I am interested in what other people think, so if you have gun knowledge then let's hear your opinion. Im not looking to justify me using the gun, I know enough to make my own decision.

 

[Skylinerider]

I say do whatever he wants the .338 is a huge round, but it's him lugging that monster around. I shoot a .308 when hunting so it's quite a bit smaller, but still feels heavy after a day hiking through the trees. I know how a poorly placed shot can ruin some meat, but you will get that with any rifle and a poorly placed shot.

 

[LT.]

Personally I would agree that a 338 lapua mag is far to big for elk as well for a spot and stalk. But, there is a fine line between overkill and ethical hunting. What is ethical for one is overkill for another. I am of the belief that a 300 win mag is that border for elk, again for a spot and stalk. However, if the elk is being shot at long distances say, over 1000 meters or so then the LM is a fantistic choice. At least in my opinion. I believe that I am in the majority who would prefer to shoot a 270 win or a 30-06 springfield. Reason being that ounces equal pounds, pounds equal pain. The lighter weight your hunting equipment is the easier it is to lug it around and generally the better your hunt will go. The big heavy magnums like your LM are great for glassing and area and taking the time to properly range, dial up the optics, and let a relaxed shot ring out. The animal is less stressed, less of an impact on the area, and less trudging through the area carrying heavy equipment. I believe it boils down to your style of hunting. Everyone has their style of hunting and personal prefrence. The guides may be more of a spot and stalk hunters rather than long distance hunters.

I hope that makes sense and is not considered too personal.

LT.

 

[DAA]

<shrug> They think using a .338 LM on elk is over kill? I've put a lot of rounds through one, more than 20 years ago, when it was just called a .338/.416 Improved. Every shot I took was at a live animal. The biggest animal I ever used it on? A rock chuck... But, at a thousand yards, it didn't rip them up much. Mostly just penciled through. The big advantage to the big round at distance, aside from just bucking the wind of course, was being able to see some dust kick up to know where you hit on misses.

Anyway... Sounds like the guide is simply ignorant if he thinks that a properly constructed bullet from any rifle will "destroy" an elk. That's just dumb. What is the guide going to say when a client punches a bull through the lungs with an '06? I'll tell you exactly what he is going to say -"shoot him AGAIN!!". What is THAT going to do, as far as "destroying" the elk?

- DAA

 

[DAA]

Thought about it, and think I should add to the above, that...

The big game guides I have known, all hate to see a client show up with a big boomer. The reason has nothing to do with how appropriate or not the rifle is for the quarry, but just the simple fact that their experiences have generally been that a client that shows up with too much gun usually can't shoot worth a damn and an ass shot elk is an ass shot elk and just all around more work, more expense, bad news for the guide.

So, maybe that is what the guide is really thinking. But rather than tell your Dad, "hey, I see you have a big boomer, in my line of business that generally means you can't shoot for shit and it's going to be a major pain in my ass...", he is simply trying to disourage the use of said big boomer in a more tactful way?

From what I've read here, I'm sure your Dad will have NO problem punching an elk's ticket with whatever he chooses to carry.

- DAA

 

[clfrnacwby]

To each his own, really. I shoot a .30-06 with 168gr. A-max's that my buddy loads for me. I can place about a 2" group at 550 yds. He shoots a .270 with 154gr. Nosler long range accubonds. He's already killed 2 elk at 550 yards with a single shot this year (gun hardly kicks so he saw both animals drop right in the scope). One of them was actually a cripple that his buddy with a .338 couldn't take down. Additionally, the kick is so much on that gun that it kept throwing him off the target. I have also seen elk taken at 500+ yards with a .243 and 100gr. bullets with a single shot. These guys practice, practice, and then practice some more - they load all their own rounds and shoot thousands of them before hunting season even starts.

My theory is that some use very large calibers in hopes that it will do all the work for them. My brother shoots a 7mm in CA and all we have there are little 100lb blacktail. One shot completely obliterates an entire shoulder. But, he doesn't care. He doesn't have time to practice his shooting before the season so he uses that and hopes it will kill the animal no matter where he hits it.

In short, using a smaller caliber is lighter to pack and has a lot less kick (which is good for staying on the target). However, it takes a lot of practice to ensure accurate shot placement for a clean, ethical kill.

 

[thefirstzukman]

I tried to explain to my Dad that these guys are just not educated about what the gun is, and he should do what he wants. The last deer I shot was with a 300 ultra mag, bonded 180 grain at 460 yards in and out through the lungs, not much expansion.. She shock broke the deers back, he fell dead before he knew what had happened..... I watched him drop in my scope.. Zero meat damaged, no shell shock, in my opinion the most ethical way to take an animal..

People think the round it just a monster when in reality it's all about accuracy. It has a base an a good taper and shoulder designed to make less impact on the rear of the bullet so the round will have even pressure on it and it will fly straighter. The bullet has the ability to carry a higher BC. Yes it does carry a lot of energy, especially at the longer ranges.. My average deer kils is right about 500 yards, I dont go passed 600 much, I prefer not too, I can if needed. I have seen poor quality .30 cal bullets out of smaller rifles do far more damage to deer then my 300 ultra with a good bullet, also saw my brothers 300 ultra destroy a deer ith a Hornady A max...

Its probably not for everyone, but I think he will be fine if he takes it. These people are putting him in a cabin and doing all the work for free, he doesn't want to offend them.

 

[mbryson]

All about accuracy and shot placement in my opinion. I'd imagine the .338 will get pretty heavy to lug around as mentioned but I'd almost want to take it for the reasons you mention.

 

[TJDukit]

If you hit a shoulder bone with any expanding bullet you are going to destroy meat with whatever you are shooting.

I use 165gr accu-tips in my 30-06 and a well placed shot will never destroy any meat. My first deer ever was a quartering away shot and I went through the far shoulder and blew 6" hole out the shoulder with 165gr soft points. That was the last time I ever destroyed any meat since I didn't know anything about shot placement, not that I could make a better shot today on that same deer.

If you are a good shot your caliber isn't going to matter much, you can do a lot of damage with any gun if you don't know where to put the bullet and or don't have the capability of putting it there.

 

[skiboarder]

If you hit a shoulder bone with any expanding bullet you are going to destroy meat with whatever you are shooting.

I use 165gr accu-tips in my 30-06 and a well placed shot will never destroy any meat. My first deer ever was a quartering away shot and I went through the far shoulder and blew 6" hole out the shoulder with 165gr soft points. That was the last time I ever destroyed any meat since I didn't know anything about shot placement, not that I could make a better shot today on that same deer.

If you are a good shot your caliber isn't going to matter much, you can do a lot of damage with any gun if you don't know where to put the bullet and or don't have the capability of putting it there.

I agree. You could probably bring down a bear with a well placed .22. But in the heat of the moment I am lucky to shoot in the general direction of the animal.

 

[Houndoc]

Better off too big than too small.

I am of the thought to shoot the largest you are comfortable with (both kick and carrying around.) That idea has some limits, as you also do not want to damage too much of the meat of course.

 

[thefirstzukman]

Well I guess its time to find out how the Lapua does on a Deer. I'm a food hunter, not a horn hunter so there's a pretty good chance I will find out today.

 

[Jinx]

Good luck we want pics!

 

[DAA]

I'm sure it, and you, will do just fine .

Taking the weekend off, myself, try to get caught up on some chores around the home place.

- DAA

 

[thefirstzukman]

Well..... long hunt this year, not too much time to hunt but I was able to go out this morning and hike a few miles in and got me a little 2 point. Only had to shoot 160 yards but the gun did exactly what I thought it would.. in and out, no damaged meat. Exit hole about an inch round maybe a little less and a little bit of bruising around the hole, but in the ribs...

I could have had a 2 for 1 deal on this shot, there was a spike standing in front of him and I had to sit on him for about 10 mins until the 2 point took a step forward which gave me a clean shot just behind the front shoulder. My son wanted me to shoot them both so he could be finished hunting, I don't think I could have gotten a clean shot through both of them, but it would have made a good story.. pretty sure the Fish cops frown upon that too.