I absolutely MUST go 'wheeling Monday evening, Aug 13th--can you come, too?

[sixstringsteve]

no worries, live and learn. For those interested in learning, I recommend attending the fall quarterly training day. We have a segment dedicated to this exact topic and its an excellent education. The more people we can get to that training, the better.

The first step is to be teachable, and you guys definitely are. We've all been there, and we've all driven off-trail in our younger days before we knew better.

Step 1: be teachable. (check)
Step 2: research the trail, its location, its difficulty, and its legality before going (in this case, you went with someone who knew it was legal)
Step 3: read all posted signs (although this would not tell you about the bypass)
Step 4: go with people who know the trail so they can guide you and correct any errors. This is probably the most important part.
Step 5: try to stay as close to the center of the trail as possible. Sometimes it's tough to know where the center of the trail is, but make your best judgement call
Step 6: if you can't tackle an obstacle, it's best to turn around and come back another time, UNLESS IT HAS AN OFFICIAL BYPASS. It's important not to drive around obstacles that are too difficult. At times there are legal bypasses, and at times there aren't. Usually legal bypasses are indicated on maps. It's best to assume a bypass is illegal unless someone who knows the trail is sure it isn't.

You guys did great. You didn't drive through the middle of the river, and you were trying to stay on the trail. In the grand scheme of things, this is nothing. You didn't know any better, and you're trying to learn. You guys rock. Thanks for having a great attitude and not being defensive, you guys are just the type of guys that this sport needs. I hope to wheel with you soon.

 

[jinxspot]

Honestly I had no idea that the spot we went through was not a part of the trail.

Let me tell ya this exact situation happened to me up AFC as well, but it was last year when I moved here... Since I was new to the area (I’m from MI) I had no idea all the details that go into our sport in such a scrutinized region. I was also told that this is a public forum and any pics I post no matter how innocent can be viewed by the Forest Service and Misc groups trying to shut down the land access. Glad you guys took this the right way. :thumbs:

So no worries guys, if no one were to speak up then RME would never learn/grow as a group and we embrace new wheelers and open conversation in every level of the sport. Plus just think, I may have been wrong in this particular situation and clarity is good coming from both sides or possibly experts of that trail on the board. I also learned there are right and wrong ways to approach the situation and I’m glad you guys were very receptive.

I would def go check out this site as I carry the TREAD brochure with me in my center counsel. There is a category for all types of outdoor exploring and even an online awareness course.
http://www.treadlightly.org/page.php/education-recreationtips/Recreation-Tips.html

 

[TurboMinivan]

What about your neighbor. Did he make it home safely?

Yes, we got Cameron and his F-250 home without incident. I'm glad I invited him along, and I'm very glad he took his significant body damage (!) in stride.

(topic shift)

As the unofficial leader of this outing, I am unhappy about the whole bypass incident. I'm not mad that anybody innocently used it; I'm mad at myself for not knowing it was an illegal path--had I known, I would have said something. Despite what others have said in this thread, I think that path was actually there last fall (I swear I saw it last year). Either way, if it is off limits then I'll make sure to point that out in the future.

In the spirit of doing what is right, I went out of my way to make a speech about not driving in the lake, etc. I really do try to make sure we don't get ourselves in trouble.

 

[kellerexpress]

Yes, we got Cameron and his F-250 home without incident. I'm glad I invited him along, and I'm very glad he took his significant body damage (!) in stride.

(topic shift)

As the unofficial leader of this outing, I am unhappy about the whole bypass incident. I'm not mad that anybody innocently used it; I'm mad at myself for not knowing it was an illegal path--had I known, I would have said something. Despite what others have said in this thread, I think that path was actually there last fall (I swear I saw it last year). Either way, if it is off limits then I'll make sure to point that out in the future.

In the spirit of doing what is right, I went out of my way to make a speech about not driving in the lake, etc. I really do try to make sure we don't get ourselves in trouble.

I'm with you, I didn't know that was an illegal path or I would have said something. Least I know now. Problem is its pretty well worn now, and any first timers to the trail will assume its legit unless it gets blocked off.

 

[sixstringsteve]

No worries guys. Live and learn. I'm confused about what is and isn't legal on Mineral Basin. It gets confusing. The important part is that now people can learn about that section.

 

[Stephen]

I'm confused about what is and isn't legal on Mineral Basin. It gets confusing. The important part is that now people can learn about that section.

This is where things get dicey. I've been 4-wheeling up in AF for nearly 13 years now, and I'll tell you both Forest Lake and Mineral Basin have changed and morphed more than I can possibly remember. For example, the section we are talking about here originally (at least when I started going up there) went to the left of what is now the rocky section. The area that is now the challenging rocky section was actually the bypass (as I understood it). Eventually the route to the left got fenced off and the bypass section got harder and harder and wider and wider. Now it has a bypass as well.
So the question now becomes, is the bypass illegal? Technically, yes. But so is every single challenging cut along Mineral Basin. So with this bypass, do we shut it down, or do we maintain it? If we put a fence across it, then one of two things will happen. Either people will make a bypass around the right of the fence or around the left of it. The reason for this is that AF is so close to the metropolitan Wasatch Front that people will constantly go up there and test their mettle. And since Forest Lake is so accessible and popular, people will always try it and often times get intimidated by something like the rocky section. Now, I completely agree with the mindset that if they can't make it through that section, then they have no business being on the trail. BUT, we have no way of policing the trail 24/7 and telling people that and/or spotting them through. So, despite the fact that the bypass is illegal, would it be more prudent to maintain it as a proper bypass? That way we mitigate the potential for further trail damage to the area. This is something that the Red Rock 4-Wheelers have done for decades down in Moab. Obviously this would be something to discuss with the Utah 4x4 Club and the FS. but in my opinion, this is a good option.
As far as Mineral basin is concerned, the legal trail is taking the full switchbacks all the way up. Every cutoff of the switchbacks is illegal. But, those cuts are what make the trail challenging and fun, so no one advocates to close them. What should be done is map out the trail as it exists now and then try and maintain it as best as possible that way.
The beauty of AF is that its close, its a great place to get people acclimated with their vehicles as every trail up there can be navigated in a stock rig (within reason of the vehicle and drivers capabilites), so many people have an interest in keeping the canyon open, and we have a great relationship with the FS. So we need to nurture that by taking proactive approaches like these.

 

[ret32]

The illegal bypass you guys point out is on Utah4x4Club's radar for blocking off as a future club project. It appeared right at the end of the season last year. We first noticed it during our 2011 NPLD Project.

One thing to keep in mind about a bypass like that is that underneath all that nice smooth dirt, is more of the rocks you are trying to avoid. So after a couple of years of use, the bypass is as rough as the original trail. The bypass ends up avoiding nothing. Just unearthing more of the same. There is absolutely no shame in coming to grips with the fact that a trail or an obstacle isn't quite what one was prepared for, backing off, and turning around. We should all be creating that culture with the groups we wheel with. The new guy won't know what was there before and what is new, but those of us who have been on a trail before, should feel obligated to educate those around us.

The other thing to keep in mind is that in order to fence it off, we have to dig 36" deep holes for the fence posts. As you can tell from that section of the trail, you cannot dig 36" down without encountering several bowling ball sized rocks. Not fun. Bypasses crop up, that's just how things are. But the fewer people who use it, the easier it is to remedy once we get the supplies, equipment, and manpower up there.

Edit- As brought up by Stephen, sometimes a bypass is not really that fixable, as is the case for the wider section after the big boulder on the Forest Lake Trail. In that case the trail has widened to about three vehicle widths across and I'm not sure anybody knows what is the original trail. I don't. Just kind of pick a line toward the center and go with it. The new bypass, however, is a case where there is a clear forested boundary on both sides of the trail. Somebody found a spot where they could squeeze between a few trees and that's where the new bypass has cropped up. Leaving it alone would leave a patch of trees in the middle of the "new," wider trail. Continued use of the bypass would result in significant erosion around the roots of the trees, which I'm sure is not good for them. In this case blocking it off really won't encourage another new bypass because they would have to make a new route farther into the trees, which isn't really possible without cutting some of them down. Right now it's remediable, so we will remedy it. If we let it go a couple more years the game changes.

 

[sixstringsteve]

great conversation.

 

[dash]

could you block the bad pass with big rocks from other spots on the trail. wouldn't that help keep rookies on the right lines and avoid digging 3 foot holes through all the rocks? Does that defeat some kind of thing that i don't know about. seems like those plastic signs that that the fs put up help too. Hopefully i can make it out for a service project and put my muscle where my mouth is.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I'd like to think that planting some vegetation there might help, but it's so silty I can't imagine much vegetation sinking roots there.

 

[iconwill]

Great discussion. Let's join Steve on his AF project the weekend of 9/28-29. I will respond on that thread, but count me in. I'm not as good as once was...

 

[ret32]

could you block the bad pass with big rocks from other spots on the trail. wouldn't that help keep rookies on the right lines and avoid digging 3 foot holes through all the rocks? Does that defeat some kind of thing that i don't know about. seems like those plastic signs that that the fs put up help too. Hopefully i can make it out for a service project and put my muscle where my mouth is.

Yes. We do have other options rather than building a fence segment right away. We could try dragging a couple of downed logs to block the bypass. That has worked in a few other places (but not all). I'm not sure rocks would work overall, they might just attract "crawlers" to the bypass. Carsonites (the plastic signs) would be run over and dug up within a week.

I'd like to think that planting some vegetation there might help, but it's so silty I can't imagine much vegetation sinking roots there.

Actually, there was vegetation there before the bypass. It seems to grow back pretty quick. It seems that if we can keep people off of a bypass for a year or two, it grows in enough that you can't even tell people had driven there before. That's if it's still dirt. Once it's eroded down to the rocks, things don't grow so well.

 

[dash]

I work at kennecott and up here to block off the road we berm it with rocks or dirt and put a sign up. seems to work for here...so that is what i was thinking but i will try to make it to the af project.