i know i need to do more

[zukijames]

i dont think we ever said the noob run should be turned into a u4 event. noob run is great for what it is but i'll be honest i had no desire to go to it im sure i could have learned alot but it just wasn't something i was interested in.

and i think there was alot of other people like me who feel they dont fit into the cowd for this .

I am not a noob but im not an expert so i didnt feel i would have had much to say and wasn't interested in learning to be a better spotter.. and if i was i would just go watch shannon spot his son , best spotting i have ever seen!

i trail rides that appealed to a wider variety of crowd with a 5$ entry fee that is donated to land use would be awesome i think.

Or some rme shirts and proceeds could go towards land use classes or donations or something useful..

i love the stop the land grab shirts..

i think some of us here are shooting too big thinking we have to do big huge things to help, but really if the people like me and steve who dont do as much as we know we should just had a few easy simple things we could do we would be more likely to do them.


lets remeber we all have the main goal here and these are just thoughts and opinions


I have a.d.d. the thought of sitting in a meeting.. doesn't do much for me.

paying 5 bucks to go do a trail with a bunch of guys who love wheeling and having the money go to a good cause seems awesome to me .. or paying 35 bucks for a cheap t shirt that could be made for 5$ knowing the rest of the money went to help keeping trais open


maybe we could have races or competitions 50$ entrys come have a good time winner gets a shirt or cheap trophy and the rest goes to land use..

other states have more off-roading events than we do and we live in the heart of it all i personaly know i take it forgranted

maybe we need to turn rme into a land use group..

 

[zukijames]

http://4130clothing.com/www/offroad...in_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=104

we could make a cooler shirt than this .. but this one is pretty cool


and we could donate more than just a dollar

 

[SAMI]

I have a.d.d.

.... You don't say.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Don't take this personally James, it isn't directed towards you. The intent of my comments is to keep this discussion going. It's a great thread.

noob run is great for what it is but i'll be honest i had no desire to go to it im sure i could have learned alot but it just wasn't something i was interested in.

and i think there was alot of other people like me who feel they dont fit into the cowd for this .

I am not a noob but im not an expert so i didnt feel i would have had much to say and wasn't interested in learning to be a better spotter.. and if i was i would just go watch shannon spot his son , best spotting i have ever seen!

Instead of focusing on "what's in it for me", we need people who are willing to focus on "what's in it for our cause." If more people focused on being on the giving end instead of the receiving end of events, then maybe they'll find more purpose. I'm not saying everyone should go to the noob run, they shouldn't. Some events won't be there to benefit you, they'll be there to benefit others, and we need more people on the "giving" side of the fence than the "receiving."

The reason SUWA is more effective than we are is because they are willing to do hard things that aren't fun. It takes work to get where SUWA is. I have ADD too, and I hate meetings, but I realize meetings are necessary to make things happen. Events are way fun, but just paying money to some org doesn't solve our problems. We need people who are willing to volunteer to do boring things, like writing letters, or attending meetings, or plan service projects.

i trail rides that appealed to a wider variety of crowd with a 5$ entry fee that is donated to land use would be awesome i think.

That's a great start. But I don't think the main problem is lack of money. The problem is the mentality that some "land use org" will take the money and magically convert it into open trails.

i think some of us here are shooting too big thinking we have to do big huge things to help, but really if the people like me and steve who dont do as much as we know we should just had a few easy simple things we could do we would be more likely to do them.

You're right, we don't need one person doing everything. But if we're going to compare ourselves to SUWA, well have to start thinking big. Your point is well-taken though. But we need most people to step it up a notch and do more, even to the point that it feels like work and not fun anymore.

Speaking for myself, I'm willing to do more than a few simple easy things. Noob run takes a lot of organization and coordination. But it's worth it. I'm willing to do more, I just don't know where else to focus my energies. So I'll keep doing the noob run thing and hope that someone else will have the passion to fill in the gaps that the noob run doesn't.

paying 5 bucks to go do a trail with a bunch of guys who love wheeling and having the money go to a good cause seems awesome to me .. or paying 35 bucks for a cheap t shirt that could be made for 5$ knowing the rest of the money went to help keeping trais open


maybe we could have races or competitions 50$ entrys come have a good time winner gets a shirt or cheap trophy and the rest goes to land use..

other states have more off-roading events than we do and we live in the heart of it all i personaly know i take it forgranted

maybe we need to turn rme into a land use group..

I think those are excellent ideas, but who would be in the "land use group?" And how would they turn money into open trails, increased education, service projects? I think we need middle men who aren't presidents of clubs, but who are willing to do some boring things to promote our cause.

Maybe your role could be fundraising and finding ways to get money to the groups. That's PLENTY for one guy. We'd then need someone who was willing to volunteer to put that money to good use. I think that's where we're weak as an org. If it were as simple as paying $100 a year to an org, and they did all the work, I'd be all over it.


I think we need something like moab friends for wheeling up here in slc. Thery're small but extremely effective. They do boring things like go to meetings with salazar, write their BLM people, put up fences, and have trail clean-up days. I think we could use them as a model to get more done up here.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Just thinking out loud...

I think we have several groups of people. We should focus on helping people transition from one group to the next. I'm no expert, but this is how I see it. I probably missed a few steps in there, but if we could help people progress, we'd be in a great spot.

G1 - people who 4x4 but don't know a thing about land use or proper trail etiquette or good behavior.

G2 - people who understand the legality of a trail and decide to stay on the trail and don't litter.

G3 - those who pick up trash as they go, and correct others who are driving off-trail or littering.

G4 - those who donate money to club or land-use orgs

G5 - Those who write letters to respective land-use policy makers.

G6 - those who attend events put on by land-use orgs (NPLD, service projects, RME BBQ, mapping projects, etc)

G6 - those who organize events like service projects, NPLD, service projects, etc.

G7 - those who get involved legally (attending hearings, working with land-owners, work with the BLM on RMPs, etc)

G 8 - those who are involved in the leadership of clubs/orgs.




I'm sure I"m over-simplifying this, but I also think we have different levels of motivation on the issue:

M1 - those who just don't care about trail closures. Either because they don't know it's happening, they don't wheel and feel like they have nothing to loose, or they don't care if a trail is closed because they're going to wheel it anyway.

M2 - Those who don't want to see any more trails closed because they're running out of trails to wheel. These people tread lightly because it's the only way to keep our trails open. These people would be equally happy wheeling in the Energy Solutions Arena as they would be on the Rubicon, as long as the obstacles are good.

M3 - Those who those who enjoy the rock crawling aspect, while enjoying nature. These people want to tread lightly because they don't want to damage natural resources. Trails are more than an adrenaline rush to see if they can crawl up the biggest obstacle there; they enjoy the aspect of being in nature mixed with the challenge of rock crawling.



I'm not trying to say that an M3 is more noble than an M2, but I think M2's and M3's will have a different approach to the fight.

M2's will be anti trail-closures (anti-SUWA because they view SUWA as a threat)

M3's effforts will focus on keeping trails open and opening new trails, along with promoting proper trail use rather than simply opposing SUWA.

I know it sounds like semantics, but it's more than that to me. I'm struggling to put into words what i mean. I think a proactive group promoting responsible land use would do a lot more than a "stop the land grab" group (reactive) that is trying to stop a group. THe pro-active group takes way more energy and volunteers (like SUWA), rather than waiting for something to oppose.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Imagine seeing the following commercials on TV:


Commercial 1
Stop the land grab. Suwa is trying to close hundreds of miles of motorized access. This affects thousands of ATV, motorcycle, bicycle, OHV, and motorized vehicle travel in thousands of acres of Utah's public land. Stop the greedy land grab.


Commercial 2
Utah is rich in natural resources, and everyone has the right to see it. Many of these beautiful locations are remote and impossible to access without motorized use. We, the "association for visiting nature and leaving it better than we found it" group promote proper trail ettiquette, service projects, and increased access to Utah's wonderful nature. To support our cause, call the number on the screen.


Now, imagine you're not into motorized recreation. You're a horseback rider, or a hiker, or just someone who only cares about sports and you never get outside. Which group are you most likely to support?

I guess the point is, a bunch of "stop the land grab" commercials will indeed raise awareness to the issues going on, but since they're not promoting anything other than keeping our trails open, most people don't care.

SUWA doesn't promote themselves as an "anti motirized travel" agency. They promote themselves as pro-nature, who will do whatever it takes to keep nature pristine. That's the reason they can get so many supporters and sponsors. If we want equal support from non motirized rec groups, we need to be more proactive towards helping keep people responsible on the trail (like MFFW), and less reactive to stopping a group.

 

[jackjoh]

Great stuff you guys. I am a G2 through G8 and a M2/M3. So you can see I have a problem. I want to do everything and it is impossible. I am a doer/follower except when there is no one to lead and then I just strike out and do whatever I think of at the moment. Well that is me.
As far as Noob run goes it should remain with RME.
As far as U4 goes, we are facilitators that assist by promoting, advertising, and we should be educating at this type of event (like Tacoma did) as well as trail runs. We have been successful in the past and can be now and in the future.

 

[sixstringsteve]

we need more guys like you Jack. You're a great example to me.

 

[zukijames]

more guys like him would be great more guys willing to spend hundreds of dollars and hours doing things would also be great.. but i still think making more small things for the average guy who isnt that into land use would help and get more people participating and maybe after that the big things like commercials and such would be more possible

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I think we need something like moab friends for wheeling up here in slc. Thery're small but extremely effective. They do boring things like go to meetings with salazar, write their BLM people, put up fences, and have trail clean-up days. I think we could use them as a model to get more done up here.

I think you just defined U4's mission statement... Time for RU4WDA

 

[DOSS]

I think you just defined U4's mission statement... Time for RU4WDA

Your referenced mission statement does not match with that of Jacks understanding

As far as U4 goes, we are facilitators that assist by promoting, advertising...

 

[jackjoh]

Your referenced mission statement does not match with that of Jacks understanding

As far as U4 goes, we are facilitators that assist by promoting, advertising, and we should be educating at this type of event (like Tacoma did) as well as trail runs.

Read the rest of what Jack said.

 

[zukijames]

doss what are your great ideas what are the great things we are doing..

people trying is a step in the right direction.

people giving fellow wheelers shit for there actions not being good enough..

not really getting us anywhere

so maybe you should start a land use group/club and i will be your first member and do what you think needs to be done and i will support you as much as i can

 

[DOSS]

doss what are your great ideas what are the great things we are doing..

people trying is a step in the right direction.

people giving fellow wheelers shit for there actions not being good enough..

not really getting us anywhere

so maybe you should start a land use group/club and i will be your first member and do what you think needs to be done and i will support you as much as i can

I am admittedly burnt out I did my thing full force for a long time, and I still write letters to my representatives on a consistent basis, I work with the Tooele county trails committee when time allows me to do so (I also tell them that they have some focus issues too) -- Great Ideas, how about U4 actually do something instead of saying that because they don't have volunteers they can't do anything. Cut down on doing things that are not helping and focus on doing something they can do (you know such as processing membership information in a timely manner).

People trying is a great thing, wasting their time assisting U4 when other groups are actually doing something.. now that is a dumb thing.

I also am the voice of decent when it comes to U4, so instead of allowing them to hide some of the stupid things they do (such as delete the thread where they were called out for wanting to give peoples information away against their privacy policy). I have prodded, and offered in the past to help if they could tell me exactly what they needed me to do to help (they have so far been unable or unwilling to do so). Their standard practice is to say that if you do not go to a meeting or have time to go to the meeting then there is nothing they can do.

In one of these recent threads a post of volunteers needed in the Mona area for a land use thing was linked. Can you find one for what U4 is doing?

and Jack so you are telling me that U4 is now a clearinghouse and facilitator for land use groups and that I should not expect U4 to actually do anything but to act as a cheer squad. And yes Jack I did read all of what you said for your reference 3 periods at the end of a quote says there is more information in the quote that was not quoted. Taco was fully prepared to do that tread lightly training too with pamphlets and handouts etc.

 

[jackjoh]

Nothing useful will come of this Doss or will it? You have your mind made up and head in the sand as far as U4 is concerned.
So, would you be willing to be U4's contact with Tooele County Trails Committee and keep us posted on all of there activities so U4 can respond in a timely manner with help and support? It would also help if you would develop a trail maintenance or clean up in the Tooele area for next NPLD that U4 could support and advertise. I promise I will be there if you do.

 

[jackjoh]

Nothing useful will come of this Doss or will it? You have your mind made up and head in the sand as far as U4 is concerned.
So, would you be willing to be U4's contact with Tooele County Trails Committee and keep us posted on all of there activities so U4 can respond in a timely manner with help and support? It would also help if you would develop a trail maintenance or clean up in the Tooele area for next NPLD that U4 could support and advertise. I promise I will be there if you do.

Bump?

 

[DOSS]

Bump?

As I have told you before Jack, I will help U4 once U4 can show that it is actually doing something, or at the least can have a board and president that agree on the direction that U4 is going and what their mission statement really means. I don't believe in throwing my time at fruitless endeavors

It is smart to buy stocks when the price is low, but dumb to buy those same stocks when they are stock in the titanic after it has already hit the iceberg :greg:

 

[jackjoh]

I was hoping something would come of this but it looks like nothing will. Well, is there someone in Tooele that will help U4 keep roads and trails open? Not Tacoma, he is already doing all he can.

 

[SAMI]

Jack, what does U4WDA have to offer Tooele County and it's citizens? If U4 were selling a product, or service, what would the brochure say to lead someone to believing that this is a product/service that they cannot live without?

I actually thought DOSS summed his thoughts up nicely with the idea of buying stock in the 'Titanic' post-Iceberg.

 

[jackjoh]

Jack, what does U4WDA have to offer Tooele County and it's citizens? If U4 were selling a product, or service, what would the brochure say to lead someone to believing that this is a product/service that they cannot live without?

I actually thought DOSS summed his thoughts up nicely with the idea of buying stock in the 'Titanic' post-Iceberg.

Because it is not true unless no one joins in the fight. Without people volunteering in different areas there is no way U4 or any group or person can be effective. Look what sixstring has done basically by having the desire and getting people to respond. If it is the name U4 that is holding people back lets call it something else and start cooperating with one another. U4 or any volunteer group is only as good as its members. Members can donate $10 there whole lives but unless they get active it basically means nothing. Yes there are some people that are actually doing things in U4 and if you do not believe it you can kiss my elbow.

So is it a new name we need or will we get the same old horse manure from people.
So what is the name you prefer and I will join and keep doing what I have been doing to the best of my ability.