- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
The official counting and ratification of the Electoral College was stopped for hours due to the riot. So yes, the transition of power was disrupted.
January 6th, your opinion.
- Thread starter jackjoh
- Start date
Spork
Tin Foil Hat Equipped
- Location
- Saratoga Springs, UT
If granny could have just stood her ground and waved her flag a little harder Biden would have never been president. 🤣
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Debate within the Senate regarding the certification and ratification of the Electoral College is not only common, but expected. Historically, this has been over procedural things, or questioning if X elector in Y state was properly representing Z result. In the last 20 years it has become an opportunity for Senators of the "losing" party to bitch and moan and claim illegitimacy. Its stupid and childish and the Electoral Count Act needs to be reformed to clarify the rules better and make this kind of grand standing less meaningful.
Rioters smashing into the Capitol building with the intent of disrupting the proceedings is decidedly not common or expected. All egged on by the sorest loser in American political history, Donald J. Trump. Like his politics and his accomplishments or not, one thing everyone should agree on is that he's a sad pathetic cry baby loser.
johngottfredson
Threat Level Midnight
- Location
- Alpine
I got my undergrad in political science because I loved it, couldn’t get enough. Thought I might even go into politics. One internship at the state legislature was enough to end that dream in a hurry, politics is dirty. Which is why the framers were straight up inspired to create a pretty awesome government that balanced power, and had some nice mechanisms for limiting the damage any power hungry individual can do.
It works pretty well, based on history. Just as an example, when FDR couldn’t get his way on some stuff he pushed super hard to expand the Supreme Court to 14 so he could pack it with his people. Didn’t work. When LBJ tried to make us a straight up socialist society, he made some headway, but was followed up a few years later by Reagan who was elected on a mandate to go the other direction.
Our system can handle all kinds of bad presidents and still be strong. But it can’t handle a nation of bad voters for too long. Obviously, when the majority of a country doesn’t value liberty, won’t fight for it, expects to be taken care of cradle to grave by government, our republic will begin to be corrupted. This tendency needs to be fought against by those who want to preserve our freedoms.
However, equally pernicious is a nation that is willing to be led by a demagogue. Trump is dangerous, not because he is mean on twitter, but because he gets his supporters so frothing at the mouth that they become blinded to anything he does wrong. They will defend his lies, and when forced to confront them, they point to the enemy and say it’s no worse than what they do. Throughout Trumps whole candidacy and presidency, I opposed him, not because I disagreed with his stated policies, but because I thought he was a guy that would burn the country to the ground if he thought he could get his head on Mount Rushmore.
So for me, January 6th was the most natural outcome in the world. Anyone shocked was not paying attention. So there is no political party that gives me any hope for the future; I’ll vote libertarian, and look after me and mine. But I think the country is F’d.
It works pretty well, based on history. Just as an example, when FDR couldn’t get his way on some stuff he pushed super hard to expand the Supreme Court to 14 so he could pack it with his people. Didn’t work. When LBJ tried to make us a straight up socialist society, he made some headway, but was followed up a few years later by Reagan who was elected on a mandate to go the other direction.
Our system can handle all kinds of bad presidents and still be strong. But it can’t handle a nation of bad voters for too long. Obviously, when the majority of a country doesn’t value liberty, won’t fight for it, expects to be taken care of cradle to grave by government, our republic will begin to be corrupted. This tendency needs to be fought against by those who want to preserve our freedoms.
However, equally pernicious is a nation that is willing to be led by a demagogue. Trump is dangerous, not because he is mean on twitter, but because he gets his supporters so frothing at the mouth that they become blinded to anything he does wrong. They will defend his lies, and when forced to confront them, they point to the enemy and say it’s no worse than what they do. Throughout Trumps whole candidacy and presidency, I opposed him, not because I disagreed with his stated policies, but because I thought he was a guy that would burn the country to the ground if he thought he could get his head on Mount Rushmore.
So for me, January 6th was the most natural outcome in the world. Anyone shocked was not paying attention. So there is no political party that gives me any hope for the future; I’ll vote libertarian, and look after me and mine. But I think the country is F’d.
Tacoma
Et incurventur ante non
- Location
- far enough away
Hey hey
Our government has never instigated, taken part in, or supported any action against its own people covertly, ever. Nothing has ever come out to suggest such insane conspiratorial nonsense..FBI involvement in something like the Jan 6 Seditious Very Awful Insurrection? Just not possible.
Ooooorrrrrr...........
Our government has never instigated, taken part in, or supported any action against its own people covertly, ever. Nothing has ever come out to suggest such insane conspiratorial nonsense..FBI involvement in something like the Jan 6 Seditious Very Awful Insurrection? Just not possible.
Ooooorrrrrr...........
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Tacoma
Et incurventur ante non
- Location
- far enough away
For the record, I think Jan 6 was some.if the dumbest sh*t of all time. But I digress
Same, but it stinks to high hell and back and I'll ask all the questions I want irregardless of the 'conspiracy' attacks.
Pike2350
Registered User
- Location
- Salt Lake City
First, for as often as he went to Mar-a-lago and how the taxpayer was billed for the secret service to atay at HIS properties would be one start. That is just the first and most obvious. He rarely, if ever used Camp David as his getaway...it was always his property and the taxpayers paid handsomely for his protection. Sure many other presidents go to personal ranches, vacation homes and we, the taxpayers pay for thw protection to be hooled up close by....but they were not priperties owned by the president.
Him, using his own properties for functions funded by the government just meant $ in his pocket.
Now, the part I think would be hard to prove but it may come out eventually. I feel he was constantly workibg deals while in office for the benefit of his company and brand for the long haul. I am sure most negotiations he worked with other countires probably had hidden bebnfits for him and Trump entrrprises.
I have absolutely ZERO trust or faith in Trump doing anything for anyone's best interest unless it's his or his families and their "brand". He couldn't care less about America IMHO. I think he just liked the ego boost and was in it for himself 100%.
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
Voting for President feels like a choice between taking it between the shanks, or down the throat.
- DAA
Trate D
Well-Known Member
Now do Biden and his family..... How’s the current administration been doing this year? I’d love to hear how many great things they have accomplished.
And this is just me being genuinely curious how someone who I believe voted for Biden thinks things are going.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Definitely an interesting perspective whatever you think of Chris Stewart (not the biggest fan but we've had much worse)
He has MUCH more visibility to events than any of us. Interesting opinion piece for sure and does have some relevant points re: the Jan 6 that ring true to me.
Opinion: Biden’s obsession with domestic extremism hurts America’s global standing
The reality is undeniable: Under this president’s watch, America has retreated to the international sidelineswww.deseret.com
After a full year of President Joe Biden holding office, many still question whether he has a national security strategy. I can certainly understand their confusion. Look no further than the U.S.-Russia negotiations — it is increasingly clear that, under U.S. leadership, a divided and confused Western alliance doesn’t know how to deal with the challenge posed by Vladimir Putin.
Still, President Biden continues to claim that he’s returned America to its more “traditional” role on the world stage. And the White House repeatedly assures the American people that its diplomacy-at-all-costs approach will yield positive results.
So how does the world look after 12 months of a supposedly more traditional, diplomatic America?
China is increasingly aggressive toward Taiwan and testing hypersonic missiles; Russia is increasingly aggressive toward Ukraine and conducting cyberattacks against American infrastructure; al Qaeda and the Taliban are greatly empowered in the wake of our disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, leaving the entire region in violent disarray; and North Korea is advancing its nuclear weapons programs and testing advanced missiles. All this while our allies look desperately for U.S. leadership.
The reality is undeniable: Under President Biden’s watch, America has retreated to the international sidelines. We’re already suffering from the immediate consequences of this mistake, and we’ll be coping with the long-term effects for years to come. As I was recently asked by a member of the Ukrainian parliament, “After what we witnessed in Afghanistan, how can we ever trust you again?”
Most shocking, though, is that these consequences are the result of a conscious decision made by the Biden administration. Over the past year, they have demonstrated a clear commitment to reallocating the time, attention and resources of the intelligence community toward a threat they perceive as even greater than our foreign adversaries — “domestic extremism.”
Conveniently, these extremists are largely considered to be Republicans. According to President Biden, these Republicans are holding “a dagger at the throat of American democracy.” And according to Vice President Kamala Harris, there is some sort of equivalence between last year’s Capitol riot on the one hand and Pearl Harbor and 9/11 on the other.
Let me be clear — the Capitol riot was a disgrace. It is a stain on our democracy, and those who participated in the riot should be prosecuted. But to conflate the events of that day with two of the most horrific attacks in our nation’s history is to combine historical ignorance with cheap, partisan overreach.
Sadly, though, I believe that is the formula driving President Biden’s national security strategy. The Democratic Party appears to believe it is in an existential struggle against the forces of darkness among us — the “darkness” being anyone who didn’t vote for them. And apparently, there is no differentiation between these forces and the Axis powers or Islamic terrorists.
There’s no doubt that America is experiencing deep domestic divisions. But we need to ask ourselves a few important questions before we jeopardize our global position even further.
How does an obsessive focus on domestic threats affect the objectives of America’s global strategies? How do our foreign adversaries perceive our shifted focus? How do the American people perceive this shifted focus?
Clearly, our standing on the international stage has been significantly diminished under this new “strategy.” Clearly, our foreign adversaries perceive this “strategy” as a sign of weakness. And in terms of our nation’s national security, I’d bet that most Americans are more concerned with the rises of China and Russia than their neighbor’s preferred news program.
If our president continues to elevate his domestic political opponents to the status of foreign enemies, we can expect more of what we’re seeing and experiencing right now: Increasing suspicion and division at home, and the success of our enemies abroad.
Rep. Chris Stewart, a Republican, represents Utah’s 2nd Congressional District.
He has MUCH more visibility to events than any of us. Interesting opinion piece for sure and does have some relevant points re: the Jan 6 that ring true to me.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Those actions always did raise my eyebrows as well. As you mention, we could go back to the Obama vacations, Bush ranch visits, Clinton wanderings and such. As I mentioned before, I'm not a "Trumpster" but given the choices of who he was running against, I'd still vote for him again. I appreciate your comments even if I don't fully agree
- Location
- West Haven, UT
Not directly related to the January 6th incident but my take on how we got here, some may or may not agree.
To be honest, seeing HOW the media and liberal Politicians are touting the Jan. 6th incident yet NOT doing anything about the entire summer of 2020 tells me everything I need to know. We have friends in the Portland and Seattle areas whom we RV with and we take turns visiting every couple of years. In 2020 it was our year to head up there and we were told to stay away, especially with a large RV as it was like a war zone and the government didn't do anything to secure the areas nor give the people any sense that order was coming. I still get pictures and small video clips from them and it looks like a ghost town that has been invaded by tents and transients.
The political scene ever since Obama was elected has been more volatile and turbulent than any time I can remember in my life. He was supposed to "unite" us as Americans because we were exercising our "white guilt" and we have been at each other ever since, which is all part of the plan in my opinion. I don't consider myself racist by any stretch of the word but I have strong feelings about those who contribute to society and those who are a drain on society regardless of color, race, religion or creed. Those who take advantage of people or the system rather than work and support their own way through life are of no real concern of mine.
I was raised that right was right and wrong was wrong but now we are being told the opposite, men are women and women are men if they feel like it that particular day. I think common sense, moral & ethical logic and simply being civil to one another has gone right out the window along with hard work and bettering your families situation and working toward being self-sufficient. For some reason those mindsets or behaviors that support that theory are obsolete to some and we are being told they are racist. HOW is wanting someone to better themselves racist? I have this argument with my older sister damn near on a regular basis. Why is it that those who try to get people to better themselves and try to put things in place to ALLOW people to benefit from their own efforts criticized and labeled as racists whereas those who merely point the finger and tell you who is to blame yet do NOTHING but keep people down seem to be the moral and "righteous" of the bunch.
People want to be victims and if you don't agree with them YOU are the problem. It's like everyone is walking around with a chip on their shoulder daring someone to knock it off so they can scream foul and have the entire social community come down on them because they were offended. I'm sorry but that is not being productive and I focus on productive actions in my life to better my life and my families lives.
This is probably completely unrelated but If anyone gets a chance read the book "One Second After". It is about the world in which we live in going back to the early 19th Century after a terrorist attack wipes out all technology. It depicts how people were dealing with no technology and those people who had certain skills were selected to contribute to rebuilding whereas those who had no skills or nothing to offer were left to perish. There are times I think to myself that can't come fast enough to rid the earth of those who don't contribute to society yet are merely a drain on it.
To be honest, seeing HOW the media and liberal Politicians are touting the Jan. 6th incident yet NOT doing anything about the entire summer of 2020 tells me everything I need to know. We have friends in the Portland and Seattle areas whom we RV with and we take turns visiting every couple of years. In 2020 it was our year to head up there and we were told to stay away, especially with a large RV as it was like a war zone and the government didn't do anything to secure the areas nor give the people any sense that order was coming. I still get pictures and small video clips from them and it looks like a ghost town that has been invaded by tents and transients.
The political scene ever since Obama was elected has been more volatile and turbulent than any time I can remember in my life. He was supposed to "unite" us as Americans because we were exercising our "white guilt" and we have been at each other ever since, which is all part of the plan in my opinion. I don't consider myself racist by any stretch of the word but I have strong feelings about those who contribute to society and those who are a drain on society regardless of color, race, religion or creed. Those who take advantage of people or the system rather than work and support their own way through life are of no real concern of mine.
I was raised that right was right and wrong was wrong but now we are being told the opposite, men are women and women are men if they feel like it that particular day. I think common sense, moral & ethical logic and simply being civil to one another has gone right out the window along with hard work and bettering your families situation and working toward being self-sufficient. For some reason those mindsets or behaviors that support that theory are obsolete to some and we are being told they are racist. HOW is wanting someone to better themselves racist? I have this argument with my older sister damn near on a regular basis. Why is it that those who try to get people to better themselves and try to put things in place to ALLOW people to benefit from their own efforts criticized and labeled as racists whereas those who merely point the finger and tell you who is to blame yet do NOTHING but keep people down seem to be the moral and "righteous" of the bunch.
People want to be victims and if you don't agree with them YOU are the problem. It's like everyone is walking around with a chip on their shoulder daring someone to knock it off so they can scream foul and have the entire social community come down on them because they were offended. I'm sorry but that is not being productive and I focus on productive actions in my life to better my life and my families lives.
This is probably completely unrelated but If anyone gets a chance read the book "One Second After". It is about the world in which we live in going back to the early 19th Century after a terrorist attack wipes out all technology. It depicts how people were dealing with no technology and those people who had certain skills were selected to contribute to rebuilding whereas those who had no skills or nothing to offer were left to perish. There are times I think to myself that can't come fast enough to rid the earth of those who don't contribute to society yet are merely a drain on it.
Pike2350
Registered User
- Location
- Salt Lake City
I assume this was directed at me? I am curious, just because I voted for Biden (actually just against Trump, but usually vote Libertarian) I am not at all happy with how things are. That doesn't mean I regret voting for him.
You seem to mistake my vote for Biden an an endorsement of him. It was simply a "I can't stand Trump, I feel he is one of the most vial human beings alive" So, while I voted for Biden, I honestly don't think we would be ANY better with Trump....and possibly worse, but there is no way to really tell.
As to MBryson's comments about other presidents and their financial interests....I completely agree that most presidents will gain financial benefit from their time in office, and will set themselves up for when they leave (hell, not just Presidents but all Senators and Congressmen do this I believe) I just feel that Trump, being more of a slimy businessman, with such a huge ego, LIKELY (my opinion, and we'll see if it ever comes to be verified) is the worst one by a long shot. Bidens' are pretty bad as well. I don't agree with him...but I dislike Trump more.
Pike - I don't get your argument about Trump using the presidency to pad his pockets, because for the first time in a very long time he was one of the only ones who actually lost net worth. A lot of people liked him at the beginning because they claimed he couldn't be bought. I hated him during the election cycle, I voted libertarian (as I did for the two cycles before that) but after he got elected and noticing how the system was frothing at the mouth and attacking him, it made me take a deeper look into what was really going on. It reminded me of the attacks on Ron Paul but x 9000
I don't mind that you have a different view on that, I just wanted to add some context and a little data point to this conversation.
I don't mind that you have a different view on that, I just wanted to add some context and a little data point to this conversation.
I realize I have a different opinion than most here, and I rarely read, and even more rarely post in this section of RME, but when I saw the thread title, if figured why the h*** not. This post is about personal opinions and this is mine. January 6th was an all out assault on our democracy and our country. It was not Antifa, or any left leaning group that inspired it. It was a brazen attempt to overturn a fair and free election inspired by, and at the invitation of, the man at the top. There was no massive voter fraud and most of the audits and recounts actually increased Biden's win. The pictures that are posted in this thread are offensive, and a slap in the face, to the Capital Police that fought bravely, suffered, and some even died solely because of the fragile and bruised ego of the most dishonest man to ever sit in the Oval Office, and he continues to lie about voter fraud to this day. What actually blows me away is that despite all of the lost court cases, and the complete lack of evidence, some people actually believe him, and others even worship him.
Believe it or not, I voted Republican my whole life until 2016, but could not in good conscience vote for Trump. I also couldn't vote for Hillary. To be honest, I am not a Biden fan, but at least he's honest, well as honest as a career politician gets. He was elected by the majority of legal US voters and won the job. Just to state another opinion, inflation and supply chain problems didn't happen because of the actions of any decsions made in the last 12 months. I feel sorry for anyone that had to clean up the mess from 2020.
I'm sure I'll lose some friends over this. Oh well, life goes on.
Believe it or not, I voted Republican my whole life until 2016, but could not in good conscience vote for Trump. I also couldn't vote for Hillary. To be honest, I am not a Biden fan, but at least he's honest, well as honest as a career politician gets. He was elected by the majority of legal US voters and won the job. Just to state another opinion, inflation and supply chain problems didn't happen because of the actions of any decsions made in the last 12 months. I feel sorry for anyone that had to clean up the mess from 2020.
I'm sure I'll lose some friends over this. Oh well, life goes on.
You won't lose me as a friend. I just want to state that no capitol police died from this happening. One guy had a heart attack that was later in the day and you'd be hard pressed to say it was due to the event. Nobody caused that man physical injury at least. I also want to add that there is plenty of video evidence of the capitol police politely letting people in through at least two areas.
If I were at the rally, I wouldn't have gone near there. Obviously it was a political trap, IMO.
- Location
- West Haven, UT
"Honesty" is not a trait that comes to mind for me when someone mentions Biden's name. I am a person who was stationed in Delaware for 11 years, seeing first hand what he did to (not so much for) that state. I'll agree that most politicians seem shady, but Biden's dealing's as VP and with his own family seem to suggest a word which is the opposite of "honesty." Oh, BTW, he has a well documented history of plagiarism....
- Location
- West Haven, UT
While I didn't particularly care for some (or most) of Trump's behaviors as far as Twitter and all that crap, I can say I liked his policies and he actually did what he ran on. I think he missed the opportunity to turn some things around by all of his tweets and comments and maybe we would be at a different place now but I would have liked to have seen more civility from him. I think it is almost laughable (no, not almost) that it was nothing to have Hollywood elitists hold a severed head of Trump and get a good laugh yet we mention "Let's Go Brandon" we're labeled criminals. The hypocrisy is astounding.
My vote for Trump a second time was to keep those policies in place to better the economy and hopefully encourage people to get off their asses and work and especially to help businesses prosper and grow. If businesses are prospering and growing then those of us who work will also prosper and grow long term. My vote for Trump didn't mean I liked all of his behaviors, it was purely for the policies and a HEAVY vote against the Biden/Harris ticket and everything, I mean everything, the left stands for. Who would have ever thought if the government paid people to stay home they wouldn't go to work????? Yeah, that was a great idea.
I still think that again was by design to get small businesses to fail and get more people on the government teat.
My view on our Capitalist country is a bit different than most of the left choose to view it. They look at it like a piece of pie. IF I have a bigger piece then it inherently means you get a smaller piece. That is why they dislike those with wealth and think that everyone with wealth stole it or got it somehow by being immoral. Maybe that's just the way their minds work, I don't know. I like to think of our system and wealth as a candle. I can use my candle to light another candle or a thousand candles and it doesn't diminish my candle one bit. We can all have a lit candle. The pie scenario is very socialistic by nature and why people hate wealthy people and businesses. IF someone is getting rich then someone else is being deprived. Our economy is NOT a zero sum game, everyone can win if they choose and make decisions and actions that support that.
Personally, I aspire to wealth and try to surround myself with like minded people who are still under the philosophy that hard work, conservative spending and working towards the American dream are good targets. To me wealth is a no brainer in this country, spend less than you make and invest for the future. In this day and age it is not hard to be successful at whatever you want to do as long as you are willing to WORK for it and not blame others for you not having it.
Sorry, I am not much of a social warrior. I am a reap what you sow warrior.
My vote for Trump a second time was to keep those policies in place to better the economy and hopefully encourage people to get off their asses and work and especially to help businesses prosper and grow. If businesses are prospering and growing then those of us who work will also prosper and grow long term. My vote for Trump didn't mean I liked all of his behaviors, it was purely for the policies and a HEAVY vote against the Biden/Harris ticket and everything, I mean everything, the left stands for. Who would have ever thought if the government paid people to stay home they wouldn't go to work????? Yeah, that was a great idea.
I still think that again was by design to get small businesses to fail and get more people on the government teat.My view on our Capitalist country is a bit different than most of the left choose to view it. They look at it like a piece of pie. IF I have a bigger piece then it inherently means you get a smaller piece. That is why they dislike those with wealth and think that everyone with wealth stole it or got it somehow by being immoral. Maybe that's just the way their minds work, I don't know. I like to think of our system and wealth as a candle. I can use my candle to light another candle or a thousand candles and it doesn't diminish my candle one bit. We can all have a lit candle. The pie scenario is very socialistic by nature and why people hate wealthy people and businesses. IF someone is getting rich then someone else is being deprived. Our economy is NOT a zero sum game, everyone can win if they choose and make decisions and actions that support that.
Personally, I aspire to wealth and try to surround myself with like minded people who are still under the philosophy that hard work, conservative spending and working towards the American dream are good targets. To me wealth is a no brainer in this country, spend less than you make and invest for the future. In this day and age it is not hard to be successful at whatever you want to do as long as you are willing to WORK for it and not blame others for you not having it.
Sorry, I am not much of a social warrior. I am a reap what you sow warrior.
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RustEoldtrux
RustEoldtrux
- Location
- Evanston, WY
Well stated, I totally agree.