just got off the phone with the AF Canyon ranger station

[sixstringsteve]

i can't completely agree, unfortunately over the yrs i have turned in quite a few RME'rs from 5mile to AF canyon to moab for plainly driving where they know they shouldn't, and the sad part is most i knew was on rme and i would talk to them first about it to be nice. and with the exception of probably 2 the rest pretty told me to shut the **** up. so i sent in the pics.

man, that's a sad state of affairs. My buddies stay off the trail, and I haven't seen RME members bushwhacking. But if I did, I'd take the exact same course of action. Being uninformed is one thing, but knowing the rules and ignoring them is appalling. i guess it's the same old story with Jeff and the Moab Friends 4 wheeling. They take care of our trails down there, put up fences, etc, and a bunch of local wheelers hate them for it. We're not going to be the most popular people in Utah, but at least we'll have our trails.

 

[scoutabout]

I completely agree. However, I'd say 90% of the people up the canyon are uninformed. It seems that most people here on RME are informed and are not the offenders. The offenders either don't understand the rules (easy to fix), or they don't care about them (not so easy to fix).




I completely agree. However, if I think back to when I was a teen and I went offroading, I didn't know there were rules. If there was a road and it didn't have a big "road closed" sign, I drove on it. Now I know better. But I think there's more we can do to help educate these people than to simply expect them to know the rules. I think a huge sign that says "trail closed to all vehicles, $500 fine" or something like that would get the message across.

Once again, i don't think responsible wheelers are the offenders. I think it's the guys who go up there once a year, see a trail, don't notice the sign, and tear up the trail without a thought. And I don't think they do it maliciously. They just don't know any better.

Your guesses are not correct. The same irresponsible users are up there every weekend. Without consequence, there's no change in behavior. Without motivation to become educated, they do not.

And I for one don't want to see giant orange signs everywhere if that's your solution. You'd need about 100 of these signs in AF canyon alone.

If we want to maintain this access, we must be actively involved in the management process and do the work that the land managers cannot (due to apathy or lack of resource).

So who then should manage the land in UT? I hope to see you all out at the Take Back UT! rally on August 20 Take Back UT! just sayin'

Thanks for the laugh, that was hilarious.

 

[JPNGRL44]

Your guesses are not correct. The same irresponsible users are up there every weekend. Without consequence, there's no change in behavior. Without motivation to become educated, they do not.

I agree with you that the same irresponsible users are up there every weekend; however, I agree with the previous post that a vast majority have no clue that they are irresponsible users.

My dad and his siblings have ridden dirt bikes in AF canyon for 30 years, and unfortunately until I was introduced to RME we had no clue that there were even rules to become educated about.

We lacked knowledge of trail closures or the fact that we should even be trying to find out if there are/ were trail closures. Unless there was an obviously posted sign, gate, or boulders at the trail head or at the guard shack we assumed it was open, and that responsible trail use was staying on the trail and removing more trash than you brought with you.

Until RME we had no reason to believe that we were irresponsible users. Thankfully we found RME and have since educated all of my family... but that is just a tiny drop in the bucket. There are thousands of people in this valley that probably would become responsible users if they had the opportunity to learn that they were causing issues.

 

[JL Rockies]

I've gone wheeling in Big Cypress National Preserve in SW Florida which is managed by the US NPS. To take any motorized vehicles onto the property you need a permit which you need to buy yearly. To get the permit, you need to pass inspection which is similar to state safety here plus they check for minum tread width. Another requirement of getting the permit is an OHV Drivers License. You have to go into the office, watch a video, take a test, have a valid state-issued license and pay the fee. After you're all done, you get a decal for your windshield and one that goes in the doorjam. I actually have a OHV DL issued by the Fed... which makes me gangster.
The property has a big gate with a combo lock on it and the decal on the back of your DL has the combo. The combo changes every year and they send you a new decal in the mail. I've never been out there and not seen a Ranger on patrol.
Can this happen in someplace like AF Canyon? Maybe. Do we want it to happen? I don't think so. Consequences for breaking the rules include being banned on top of huge fines.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

I've gone wheeling in Big Cypress National Preserve in SW Florida which is managed by the US NPS. To take any motorized vehicles onto the property you need a permit which you need to buy yearly. To get the permit, you need to pass inspection which is similar to state safety here plus they check for minum tread width. Another requirement of getting the permit is an OHV Drivers License. You have to go into the office, watch a video, take a test, have a valid state-issued license and pay the fee. After you're all done, you get a decal for your windshield and one that goes in the doorjam. I actually have a OHV DL issued by the Fed... which makes me gangster.
The property has a big gate with a combo lock on it and the decal on the back of your DL has the combo. The combo changes every year and they send you a new decal in the mail. I've never been out there and not seen a Ranger on patrol.
Can this happen in someplace like AF Canyon? Maybe. Do we want it to happen? I don't think so. Consequences for breaking the rules include being banned on top of huge fines.

^^this^^ Several states use these methods and work well.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

So what we're saying is the Fed is doing a piss-poor job at land management; it's failed to educate the public, it's failed to enforce it's own laws and they see their failures as ours. They close roads because it's the path of least resistance. So who then should manage the land in UT? I hope to see you all out at the Take Back UT! rally on August 20 Take Back UT! just sayin'

It by no means a unique situation to federal lands, many state lands have been the same situation or have been closed because of 'excessive OHV use'. With our state looking to close State Parks due to lack of funds I don't see how giving them more to manage is a viable immediate solution without a groundwork for management.

 

[JL Rockies]

It by no means a unique situation to federal lands, many state lands have been the same situation or have been closed because of 'excessive OHV use'. With our state looking to close State Parks due to lack of funds I don't see how giving them more to manage is a viable immediate solution without a groundwork for management.

Torches and pitchforks.

 

[JL Rockies]

The Fed only has money that the states send them therefore the Fed is poorer than UT... as it should be.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

The Fed only has money that the states send them therefore the Fed is poorer than UT... as it should be.

Why send them any money? Lets just pull out of the Union and go back to Deseret

 

[Hickey]

Looks like a pretty prime cut of land. I'm down.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Looks like a pretty prime cut of land. I'm down.

, lets start securing the borders

 

[kmboren]

Sweet we get area 51. Do you get to finally see what is there?

 

[TJDukit]

Do we get to kick the existing californians out

 

[JL Rockies]

Why send them any money? Lets just pull out of the Union and go back to Deseret

Open up mining and drilling and UT could be the Dubai of North America. More money for land management and enforcement then the Fed would ever allocate.
Fortune Mag just announced SLC has one of the top 15 economies in the WORLD; Austin, TX was the only other US city on the list.
Essentially, the rest of the US is dragging us down to their level so I would support leaving the Union and selling our product to the US... even lending them $ at reasonable rates.

 

[krany]

Back on topic of af canyon, I was just up there today,forest lake is still blocked off and has been adopted by utah 4x4 club, didn't know they were still around. The ranger said its still a few eels p out as there is still a river flowimg down the trail. Almost the entire mineral basin is doable, once you get to the to p it turns into snow drifts in the middle of the trail and peope have been knocking down trees to get around them. Rock garden has gotten hard, speacially the top of it.

 

[chans]

There is no river flowing down the start of the trail anymore. I believe the Utah 4x4 club has adopted the trail for the last few years. The river looks lower now but the boulders are still up to block it off. Looks like the fense I helped build is still up.

Hopefully it will be open soon.

 

[chans]

Here is were the snow starts and we stopped.

The hardest part of the rock garden last year (the right side) seems to be the easiest this year, atleast until people move the boulders on the left side. The left side boulders didn't seem to like my drive line.

Krany, what time did you get up there?

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Back on topic of af canyon, I was just up there today,forest lake is still blocked off and has been adopted by utah 4x4 club, didn't know they were still around. The ranger said its still a few eels p out as there is still a river flowimg down the trail. Almost the entire mineral basin is doable, once you get to the to p it turns into snow drifts in the middle of the trail and peope have been knocking down trees to get around them. Rock garden has gotten hard, speacially the top of it.

WTF, people are knocking the trees down to get around snow??!! Just when I thought folks couldn't get any more Utarded than they already were, damn morons think pushing trees over makes more sense than shoveling the snow, we need a sniper in the trees to take care of the problem.

 

[krany]

Krany, what time did you get up there?

we were up there around one and ledr around 7

 

[dentedvw]

Went up Mary Ellen Gulch tonight, turned back by snow just before the mine. Some carnage, but a good time anyway. Drove it alone, on the way home from work. Just an extra six hours or so. Heh!