Let's have a discussion!

[BroncoMama]

Today's topic is gas trucks versus diesel trucks. What I'm interested in is actual experience and numbers, not just my cousin's brother's wife tows with a Tundra and it kicks ass. And no specs from any dealership or consumer mumbo-jumbo. Real life experience here people!!

Let's begin! :greg:

 

[BroncoMama]

I'll go first. When we first began our career of ditch digging, Chris towed about 4,000 pounds behind a gas Chevy. While I have very fond memories of that truck, it was by no means meant to tow anything more than a utility trailer of toadstools. After Horatio was delivered from St. Louis weighing in at 7,500 pounds and was loaded onto our 1,500 pound trailer, come to find out the Chevy would barely move with all that weight. With the dawning realization that we couldn't make any money if we couldn't get our equipment from one place to another, Henry joined our family 4 days later. Henry is an '02 1 ton Super Duty whom tows a minimum of 13,000 pounds every day and has actually been just fine with close to 19,000 pounds on behind his bad self.

We have also towed with an '05 Cummins which did fabulously, but was the most uncomfortable vehicle I've ever owned. My back would start hurting an hour into a trip to Moab. A huge advantage to my Dodge was the amazing gas mileage. With stock tires, I would average 23 around town and 27 on the highway and I adore the skinny pedal.

I am now the proud owner of MaKenzie who is an '01 Superduty that tows like a dream as well. I get about 17 MPG empty on 37's and then it drops to about 12 MPG with LJ's lard ass on behind. One of my favorites about towing with a diesel is hills don't matter a bit. I make the drive to Moab in exactly 4 hours and the drive home which is a climb back up to 8,000 feet in elevation in the exact same amount of time. It's nice.

 

[Greg]

You talking to me? I know I won't win this one but I will stand by what I said. I do think a Toyota Tundra, Nissan Titan or GM with a 6.0l would make a great tow rig. IMO too many people like their big diesels and nobody wants to admit a lesser gas tow rig will do the job of towing their rockcrawler in similar fashion.

Yes, a gas powered truck is not as fast as a diesel... if you're hauling a huge trailer & 2 rigs a diesel truck is much better.

Expense of general maint? Gas truck wins.

Expense of replacement parts? Gas truck wins.

Expense of fuel? Gas truck wins.

Dodge & Ford autos won't last behind a turned up diesel. Either be alright with paying $5k to build a stronger transmission or deal with shifting.


We'll use new vehicle comparisons, since that's the latest & greatest.

Toyota Tundra specs- 5.7l V8, 401 ft/lbs & 381 HP. 8000# tow capacity.

Nissan Titian specs- 5.6l V8, 379 ft/lbs & 305 HP. 6500# tow capacity.

GM/Chevy truck specs- 6.0l V8, 373 FT/LBS, 353 HP, 10,500# tow capacity


Lastly... I'm cheap. I want a truck I can just get in, drive and not worry about expensive repairs. Before our last Dodge I was a huge Dodge diesel fan. After... I won't own another Dodge diesel. Don't care for Fords. A GM with a Duramax would be cool, but they get pretty poor mileage for a diesel. Might as well drive a gas truck with a big V8 and pay less for fuel.

All my ranting is in reference to towing a rockcrawler that weighs about the average of 4,500 pounds. Add a 1,500 pound trailer for 6k total. If you're towing some massive pig on Rockwells and a backhoe trailer or 2 rigs at a time, a gas truck may not be the best choice.

 

[Greg]

I'll go first. When we first began our career of ditch digging, Chris towed about 4,000 pounds behind a gas Chevy. While I have very fond memories of that truck, it was by no means meant to tow anything more than a utility trailer of toadstools. After Horatio was delivered from St. Louis weighing in at 7,500 pounds and was loaded onto our 1,500 pound trailer, come to find out the Chevy would barely move with all that weight. With the dawning realization that we couldn't make any money if we couldn't get our equipment from one place to another, Henry joined our family 4 days later. Henry is an '02 1 ton Super Duty whom tows a minimum of 13,000 pounds every day and has actually been just fine with close to 19,000 pounds on behind his bad self.

We have also towed with an '05 Cummins which did fabulously, but was the most uncomfortable vehicle I've ever owned. My back would start hurting an hour into a trip to Moab. A huge advantage to my Dodge was the amazing gas mileage. With stock tires, I would average 23 around town and 27 on the highway and I adore the skinny pedal.

I am now the proud owner of MaKenzie who is an '01 Superduty that tows like a dream as well. I get about 17 MPG empty on 37's and then it drops to about 12 MPG with LJ's lard ass on behind. One of my favorites about towing with a diesel is hills don't matter a bit. I make the drive to Moab in exactly 4 hours and the drive home which is a climb back up to 8,000 feet in elevation in the exact same amount of time. It's nice.

We're talking about towing rockcrawlers, not heavy equipment... right? That's why I mentioned to Ben about considering a gas truck... I don't think he's looking to haul a Backhoe around. If you're hauling heavy equipment above and beyond 6500#'s then yes, a gas truck isn't the best option. I have no problem saying that... but then again, this isn't rockymountainheavyequipment.com, is it?

I think your mileage #'s are off. Are you going by the overhead display? Those things are not accurate. Stock tires or bigger tires, they are far from telling the truth. If you had a splitter I could believe those numbers on the highway, but you don't.

 

[Bucking Bronco]

I never thought my expedition would be that great at towing but it tows and stops better then either of my ford trucks. 99 ford with the V10 and a 95 with the 460.

It has independent suspension front and rear and offers the most comfortable ride of any vehicle I have driven.

Aside from just replacing the trans (which seems to be common among ford) I love it. It has 300hp and 365ft/lb and is rated for 8900lb towing. I don't think it would handle towing as a daily basis but for taking the buggy to Moab or hauling a boat to the lake. Combine that with the how easy it is for the wife to drive and the awsome turning radius plus the safety and comfort I will most likely buy another one when I finally put this one down.

I get about 16-17mpg and 10-12mpg towing

That being said I did just buy another ford with the V10 so I can haul more weight

 

[GOAT]

Are you going by the overhead display? Those things are not accurate. Stock tires or bigger tires, they are far from telling the truth.

That is for sure. Mine is all over the place....with a stock truck.

My best combined unloaded mileage is 360 miles from a tank or 13.8 MPG. It will do 14.2 on the highway. Not bad for a v10 with 172K and 4.56 gears.

Loaded up to 21K, it got a best of 8.8 MPG going to Moab. Dunno how, but it did. It's worst was 7.2 going to cedar last summer. At $4 it wasn't cheap.

All in all, I'm really happy with my V10. My trailer/rigs are too heavy to effectively be pulled with a gas motor, but I manage. A diesel would clearly be a better choice in that situation.

It was perfect for my old 18" bubbas hauler. It would nail down 10mpg towing and do 80 all day long. Jenn came along and that trailer had to go

I would own a high mileage IDI 7.3 again or try a 12 Valve. Anything beyond that, means no warranty and is a giant pit waiting to swallow all of your jeep money.

Getting to the top of the hill 20 seconds faster just isn't worth it

 

[Herzog]

One thing I do know, my dads 2009 1ton powerstroke can tow like absolutely nothing is behind it. They have better transmissions that year too. Any time he offers it up I take it. It's a dream to drive.

My '01 3/4 cummins does a hell of a job and get's decent mileage doing it too. However it's aging and getting smaller for my needs (cab space).

Before I got my Dodge, I towed with an Expedition. To me it was unstable and very underpowered on the climbs. I don't even want to mention the mileage it got. It was night and day towing with an older Dodge.

 

[BroncoMama]

We're talking about towing rockcrawlers, not heavy equipment... right? That's why I mentioned to Ben about considering a gas truck... I don't think he's looking to haul a Backhoe around. If you're hauling heavy equipment above and beyond 6500#'s then yes, a gas truck isn't the best option. I have no problem saying that... but then again, this isn't rockymountainheavyequipment.com, is it?

I think your mileage #'s are off. Are you going by the overhead display? Those things are not accurate. Stock tires or bigger tires, they are far from telling the truth. If you had a splitter I could believe those numbers on the highway, but you don't.

My truck only tows Lemon Joy, well, mostly. My Dodge had the overhead display, but my numbers are from actually going with the odometer and how many gallons of diesel I used. She was bone stock though. As far as MaKenzie goes, she doesn't have the display and we've done the gallons to how many miles thing to get those numbers as well. Now, granted, she is programmed and re-geared so that is a consideration as well.

And just for the record, you are absolutely right about an auto tranny not holding up behind a tuned up diesel.

 

[mbryson]

I'm SERIOUSLY considering a F*rd V10, manual trans truck.

 

[Greg]

I'm SERIOUSLY considering a F*rd V10, manual trans truck.

I thought you were happy with the Powerstroke?

 

[I Lean]

I used to tow a buggy with a POS 2WD Chevy with a 305. I've never owned a vehicle I hated worse, and I count myself lucky it got me to and from all the places I risked taking it. I got a consistent 12MPG unloaded, and 8-ish towing at 1/2 the speed I'd have liked to. I also had to have the tranny rebuilt, which cost nearly half as much as the whole truck did.

After that I bought my 2000 Ferd Powerstroke. It's been a GREAT truck. It's mostly bone-stock (save the illegal 285's). My massive maintenance costs over the last 5 years have been:

1 Water pump
1 alternator
2 batteries
1 glow plug relay
1 set brake pads
1 set tires

Total cost for all those things is around $700 or so.

I now have just over 200K on it, and it works just as well as it always has for me. I don't drive it often anymore, just when I need a truck for something, or when towing. Whatever I tow isn't ever heavy enough to really justify a diesel, a lightweight boat or a 4runner on a trailer, or similar loads. Last summer the fuel was pretty expensive to tow the boat to the lakes at ~$4-$5/gallon.....but I still don't want to trade it for a gasser.

I average around 17MPG unloaded, 15 with the boat, 12-13 with the 4runner.

 

[Greg]

I used to tow a buggy with a POS 2WD Chevy with a 305. I've never owned a vehicle I hated worse, and I count myself lucky it got me to and from all the places I risked taking it. I got a consistent 12MPG unloaded, and 8-ish towing at 1/2 the speed I'd have liked to. I also had to have the tranny rebuilt, which cost nearly half as much as the whole truck did.

After that I bought my 2000 Ferd Powerstroke. It's been a GREAT truck. It's mostly bone-stock (save the illegal 285's). My massive maintenance costs over the last 5 years have been:

1 Water pump
1 alternator
2 batteries
1 glow plug relay
1 set brake pads
1 set tires

Total cost for all those things is around $700 or so.

I now have just over 200K on it, and it works just as well as it always has for me. I don't drive it often anymore, just when I need a truck for something, or when towing. Whatever I tow isn't ever heavy enough to really justify a diesel, a lightweight boat or a 4runner on a trailer, or similar loads. Last summer the fuel was pretty expensive to tow the boat to the lakes at ~$4-$5/gallon.....but I still don't want to trade it for a gasser.

I average around 17MPG unloaded, 15 with the boat, 12-13 with the 4runner.

That Chevy was surprising... that it towed at all. The 305 is a weak motor to start with. Chris H. used to tow with a 1980(?) 6 cyl Ford F-150, that thing was scary, but it got him to the Comps & trails!

Sounds like you got a good truck, those mileage #'s are much more in-line with all the other mileage numbers I've seen, even 17 MPG average is good for a Powerstroke IMO. My Dodges all averaged 19-20 MPG, 21 if driven under 60.

 

[cannoncrawler]

Just having bought a 2000 chevy 454, I soon will be able to join this conversation. Previously we towed the runna with the 95 burb. It sucked for power and mileage was a flat 10mpg.

Next month we will tow a goose neck with 2 rigs so I will know more then.

I do know that my fathers 07 duramax can tow 26k of hay and still get 13mpg.

I just don't tow enough or drive enough to justify the oil burner.

 

[Herzog]

I used to tow a buggy with a POS 2WD Chevy with a 305. I've never owned a vehicle I hated worse, and I count myself lucky it got me to and from all the places I risked taking it.

Didn't the front fall off of that thing?

[YOUTUBE]WcU4t6zRAKg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[mbryson]

I thought you were happy with the Powerstroke?

Utah's Rock Crawling and Off-Road Forum - Reply to Topic
I think the motor is great. The battery, starter and CPS issues I could do without (3 sets of batteries, 3 starters now and 3 CPS in 3 years). However, the truck has been pretty solid other than the annoyances of above. I have replaced EVERY door lock actuator and most of the power window switches as well. Those annoy the hell out of me. I worry about the auto everytime I hook to a trailer. At 206K, it's a ticking time bomb. I've had it just over three years now and put over 70K on it. (I think I'm right at 50K with my Toyo MTs)

I just towed my first "heavy" load with it from St. George.

The truck seemed to not mind much at all the extra 4K weight of Steve's buggy other than it sucked a little more fuel than normal towing (then I really hated my "generous" 24 gallon tank ).

For what the truck does MOST of the time, the deezel is unnecessary, IMHO. Fun at times, but not necessary. I'm having to agree with Goat that I think the motor is a ticking time bomb but I've really had very little issue other than the CPS. I just replaced a new improved, recall CPS last week. I'll still keep one in the glovebox. I think the manual V10 would be a good compromise? Trying to find one to test drive is impossible, though. The V10 auto is a little more on the wimpy side than I'd like, but I'd like to think the manual would help there.

Things I'd require if I do get another truck...
-longer range (bigger fuel tank)
-manual trans
-shift on the floor 4WD
-long bed
-one ton

Things I really like about my truck
-paid for
-known quantity

I might just adopt the wife's ZJ and just use the truck like Carl does. Probably the smartest financial move. We get mfg. discount on F*rd and GM products, through my work. Makes things a leetle tempting.

 

[Bucking Bronco]

My dad has a 99 ford F-250 with the V-10 and a manual and he loves it and I love to drive it. That is the truck I picked up my buggy with from mark when my trans went out. I think it also has 4.30 gears stock.

I don't have any experience with my new one yet but with the 4.88 gears it spins like 3000 RPMs in overdrive at 65mph so I am not expecting good mileage. The 40gal tank will help though

 

[BroncoMama]

Expense of general maint? Gas truck wins.

Expense of replacement parts? Gas truck wins.

Expense of fuel? Gas truck wins.

Dodge & Ford autos won't last behind a turned up diesel. Either be alright with paying $5k to build a stronger transmission or deal with shifting.

Lastly... I'm cheap. I want a truck I can just get in, drive and not worry about expensive repairs. Before our last Dodge I was a huge Dodge diesel fan. After... I won't own another Dodge diesel. Don't care for Fords. A GM with a Duramax would be cool, but they get pretty poor mileage for a diesel. Might as well drive a gas truck with a big V8 and pay less for fuel.

I just had an epiphany: The difference here is that I don't take into consideration the cost of fuel or maintenance. I'm just looking at the ability to tow anything I want and still drive like a bat out of hell. Plus, I'm incredibly vain; I like having a pretty girl truck. :greg:

 

[benjy]

I appreciate you starting this thread Tara, I planned to start it during free time at work, but you beat me to it One thing I would really like to know is basic maintenance costs of gas v. diesel. My mother in law drives 04 one ton powerstroke and recently did a regular scheduled maintenance (at the stealership) of a tranny flush, oil change, and maybe some other fluids. The price was OUTRAGEOUS.

We're not looking to guy buy one tomorrow, but if the right deal showed up we're ready to make the commitment. It might be a week, it might be a year or more.

Another thing I have to consider is that this truck is going to be used 97% around town family vehicle, and as a tow rig maybe 8 times a year. Doing 85 up Spanish Fork Canyon is not on my top 3 list of requirements for a tow rig.

Honestly, I think having a diesel would be badass, but I don't really know if it's worth the cost. So all opinions are welcome! Influence away

 

[benjy]

I wonder if private sellers/dealerships would let me tow the jeep up Provo canyon on a test drive?

 

[moabrangler]

I tow with a '02 GMC, 2500HD, 6.0l. Yes I'd like a little more power, but it does just fine. We travel from one end of the state to the other, then to Colorado once a year. My trailer an Jeep weigh in about 5500-6000 lb.This truck is our DD an has 181000 miles on it.