Let's have a discussion!

[Greg]

I just had an epiphany: The difference here is that I don't take into consideration the cost of fuel or maintenance. I'm just looking at the ability to tow anything I want and still drive like a bat out of hell. Plus, I'm incredibly vain; I like having a pretty girl truck. :greg:

It's all about the bottom line for me... who cares what it looks like. If it's going to drain the wallet, forget about it.

I do say this now after owning the 'biggest & best' 1 Ton Dodge Ram with a "HO" Cummins engine and the 6 speed. As you well know that truck was an absolute POS. A factory lemon that the previous owner beat the hell out of. We got greedy and just had to have the loaded, 4 door tow rig. I wish I never traded in my '98 for that POS '03. Hindsight is 20/20.

If I'm towing often and I can afford a tow rig that will sit most of the time, unless towing, I'd probably get a GM with a 6.0l V8. If I need a daily-driver that can tow on occasion, I'd get a Tundra.

I would love to build a sub-3000# buggy, Catherines new 4Runner could tow that thing. But that's not going to happen.

 

[Greg]

I tow with a '02 GMC, 2500HD, 6.0l. Yes I'd like a little more power, but it does just fine. We travel from one end of the state to the other, then to Colorado once a year. My trailer an Jeep weigh in about 5500-6000 lb.This truck is our DD an has 181000 miles on it.

There ya go, that's what I'm liking.

 

[Kiel]

Very happy with the powerstroke, no major problems, I have done a lot of maintanence to it right after I bought it, but it tows the buggy good, has 37's tranny is great, can't complain, and oh yeah it's paid for. Plus I drive a company car during the week, so its been promoted to fun and weekend rig

 

[Greg]

I appreciate you starting this thread Tara, I planned to start it during free time at work, but you beat me to it One thing I would really like to know is basic maintenance costs of gas v. diesel. My mother in law drives 04 one ton powerstroke and recently did a regular scheduled maintenance (at the stealership) of a tranny flush, oil change, and maybe some other fluids. The price was OUTRAGEOUS.

We're not looking to guy buy one tomorrow, but if the right deal showed up we're ready to make the commitment. It might be a week, it might be a year or more.

Another thing I have to consider is that this truck is going to be used 97% around town family vehicle, and as a tow rig maybe 8 times a year. Doing 85 up Spanish Fork Canyon is not on my top 3 list of requirements for a tow rig.

Honestly, I think having a diesel would be badass, but I don't really know if it's worth the cost. So all opinions are welcome! Influence away

I know I might be sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but I'm hoping to help someone not make the same mistake we did when a gas truck will do the job.

If it's going to be a daily-driver, fuel costs should be your #1 concern. When Catherine was daily-driving our Dodge while diesel was expensive, she was spending over $600/mo on fuel. That was driving 25 miles to & from work, M-F and really going nowhere else.

Diesel motors are great, I think they last longer, make more power and get better mileage, but you're going to pay for it. And IMO nobody makes the perfect diesel truck.

If it's going to be a daily-driver that will be getting miles put on, I think a newer Toyota with a 5.7 would be perfect. Toyotas run for a long time without issues and get good mileage. Even an older Tundra with the 4.7l V8 will tow alright.

A GM with a 6.0 will tow quite well and I like the technology GM engineers built into the new LSx series engines. The 6.0 doesn't get great mileage compared to the smaller 5.3l, but the 5.3l is more of a RPM engine vs the torquey 6.0.

 

[Rot Box]

I'm sold on diesel trucks and won't ever go back to gas. Stupid and shallow? Yes :-\ Oh well...

I started with a 95 GM K2500 6.5TD with 30K miles on the odo. The truck was by far the most unreliable POS I have ever owned (or ever heard of anyone owning) but with the mods I had done to it I always enjoyed pulling.

The real "I'm sold on diesel" came when my brother and I pulled to Moab. He had a 454 dually with some engine work and 4.10 gears my truck also had 4.10's and some engine work. We had the same load and were pretty close to even the whole was up Sardine canyon and Soldiers I ended up out doing him, but not by much. The real shock was the fill up's along the way. I litterally doubled his fuel mileage ever time and that was when diesel was still cheaper than regular Man that was a long time ago...

I now have a 92 Cummins W250. It doesn't have nearly the power that the 6.5 did, but this truck is know as one of the most reliable models of pickup ever produced were the GM was known as the most unreliable, and so far it's proving to be true.

There are WAY too many variables to compare gas to diesel. In my case for a full size truck daily driver/occasional heavy hauler i love the 92 and cannot think of any gasser that would suit me better. 24mpg (better if I go easy on her) all the time unloaded, kingpin 60 that has no ball joints or pitman arms to gobble up, mechanical everything--very simple to work on (like owning a truck built in the 70's), and all around sexyness :greg: This truck is built like a tank!.... And rides like one too!

There's something about a pegged boost guage, pushing that pyro to the limit and that overpowering turbo whistle that you just gotta love

 

[jpest]

I tow my rig with an 02' Chev Suburban with the 8.1 big block gas guzzler. It'll keep up with the powerstrokes and cummins we've caravaned with on trips taken recently.

People are suprised at how well it pulls probably not realizing the motor it has.

The motor has had no issues at all. Very low maintainance. And the Suburban seats the whole family comfortably

 

[BlackDog]

I have owned gas.. and only 3 diesels.

I towed the same load at the same speeds with a non Vortec 454 225k mile truck, 1995 2500 4x4 ex cab long box automatic trans... as I did with my ZF'd 7.3 IDI 300k truck oh yeah, Crew cab 4x4... and the Crew almost doubled the mpg of the gasser 454.

Best that 454 did with either the 38 chev half ton (light!) or the 94 taurus on a Uhaul trailer, I can't imagine either load was over 6k total, maybe 6500 with the Toreass, was 8 and change.

The 7.3 loaded to 8k over truck weight (15k total)... climbing UP!!!!!!!!!! into Cali from Las Vegas never dropped below 10.

I will gladly pay the little extra for fuel.. and unleaded is rising, diesel has platued, around here anyway, I don't have to buy sparkplugs, I change an air filter, fuel filter, and oil..... and done.

So impressed with Hidalgo, he is the basis for my 4x4 play rig/krawler thing.

Off road, the little I have done with it, stepped him up to 35's, which numeric percentage, is the same as stepping up a 235 rig to 31's.... (10% taller than stock) he embarasses either of my bronco's, one of which I went to 33's with... if I took him to 37's.... (numeric % the same as the Bronc on 33's) WOW!

I don't know, in Snow, the extra weight of the diesel is traction control all in itself, even before I went to the BFG Mud TA's, which are sorta siped ( I bought them used, like every other or every third lug still has siping) it stuck to the road well enough I was embarassed to admit I locked in the hubs....

Comparing toyta diesel/gas maint. charts to Domestic gas/diesel charts may be apples to Oranges....

But as some of you remember back from the "breederwheeler" days, I thought Toy vans were the cats miaow.

One of the members of the Toy van site I frequent was in Oz, he owned a loaded turbo diesel auto, and also a gas 5 speed non ac stripper.

Was anal retentive about maintenance. He came down close to dollar per dollar even between overall operating costs between the two.

The diesel had a slight advantage... enough so that owning one made sense, but not so much that converting a stateside gas rig to diesel was going to be cost effective.

SO, yeah I am sold.

ONLY HATE is working on my 300k pig, I change race for a week... diesel goo DOES not wash off as easy as gas goo....

 

[ricsrx]

I am with ROT BOX, I own a 94 ford turbo diesel, bought in 95 for $21,000 with I dont remember between 30 and 50k miles, one ton crew cab, couldnt aford the new PS, I needed a crew cab and ford was the only offering. added the gages and exhast. turned up the fuel on the pump. Replaced the trany at 85k miles ($3,500)
Any newer diesel of any make has more power. now its worth $2,500. It has been paid for for years, IT sits untill called to dudy to batle another fun weekend.
It just went over 100k miles comming back from the winter convetion.

Back durning the Sand dune days in the 90's and fuel was
$1.04 at flying J.
I towed a 32' toy hauler with 4 quads and 3 bikes with a sand rail on the back of that.
15 MPG empty- 10 with the hauler and 6 when adding the buggy.
Its old, Its not got alot of power, ITS PAID FOR.
Still looks great all most new, clasice white ford truck.
I love to hear the turbo wind up no muffler or cat on this one.

I could not even start to do any thing with my 72 GMC half ton with a 400 small block.

 

[sixb]

Having owned both, I will put my .02 worth in. My 04 Hemi was a complete pos. It would down shift on a over pass in town. It would pull my horse trailer just fine though but would scream at 5-7k I think redline was at 7500. It would get 10-11 pulling a 10' gooseneck stock trailer weighing in at 2500 lbs and 2 horses and 15 at best empty, I think combined was around 13k I sold it and bought my first diesel a 02 Dodge 1 ton Cummins 6spd dually and it has been great gets 18+ on the hwy empty with a best of 19.8 all hand calc. and 10-14 pulling. My truck and trailer weigh in at about 14k now empty and is way over kill since I sold the horses last summer but it's paid for and just sits most of the time. Mine has been very cheap to drive if you don't include my extras which I contribute to my mid-life crisis.
My dad also has a 99 Dodge cummins, 05 chev 6.0 & a 08 chev Duramax. The 6.0 chev is a big pos it over heats all the time. His 99 he bought new with 4.10 and a 5spd, it's all stock with the orignal lift pump and injection pump, but he has been through 3 fifth gears and a couple front ends at 190k. He loves that truck but it's more like a tractor with those gears and thats how it's used with his 30+ foot gooseneck that weighs in at 7500lbs plus 15+ round bails at 1500lbs each. He bought the 08 Duramax to replace the 05 chev crew just for mpg and comfort last jan. then the fuel prices went crazy but they have come back down to stay I hope.

I would have to agree with rotbox a first gen 12v is the way to go but parts are hard to come by.

If you dis-like diesels then I would vote for a ford v10 with the 6spd but watch out for flying spark plugs an old employee of mine had 2 of them pop right out of the head.

 

[ALF]

I am very happy with my 97 GMC 1/2 tonI don't tow every weekend and the heaviest I ever haul is my Jeep. Has stuff broke over the years? Of course, but thats expected when youve owned a truck for over 12 years, but nothing major...knock on wood.

Who wouldn't want more power...but does it justify the cost when you aren't towing everyday. I'm not in poverty and I really could afford to go buy a new rig but the value doesn't out weight the cost. I consider my self lucky enough to have a trail only rig that I don't have to rely on to get me to work the next day if I trash it on a trail, Do I really need a 1 ton crew cab dually Diesel with leather interior and a kleenex holder just to tow a 6500 lb rig?

It's just like everyone saying that if you don't have a d60 don't even bother because it will just break!

Unless you're hauling heavy equipment everyday you don't need the 20,000 lb hauling capacity! Save the cash and get a beater car for a few k's that will get 40 miles to the gallon and by a moderate gas engine truck to tow your toys with.

Seems like most people are buying the biggest truck they can AFFORD not based on need but on need but on want and it's a waste. That is why the cost of trucks went through the roof.

Wake up people you don't need a diesel to haul quads!~!!

A pop up camper does not mean you need a diesel so you can still do 90 up parleys!

ALF steps off soap box:greg:

 

[rondo]

i've never owned diesel but my jeep was pulled with a (then) brand new 2001 superduty diesel on 35s from utah to fort carson CO and i've never been in a rig that fast; it could blow away anything on the hills. the guy would never admit how much $ he had into it

I figure if someone has (what, 40K?) into a big new diesel truck, they aren't going to be real excited about saying online that they made a mistake. I think that if a guy is only going to pull 6K or less, get a gas truck.

I have to commute from toowilly to downtown, but also wanted a tow truck for my jeep for moab, etc. I was tired of commuting in my SAS frontier because of mileage, maintenance, etc. Short of getting a honda AND a tow truck, i settled on a 2wd Nissan Titan. it gets 19-20 mpg hwy (no b.s.), tows like a freakin' dream, has a 317hp engine, (the 305 hp was when they came out in 2004, semantics i know) and it's been great with zero issues. MPG towing is 10-12.

It's a 2006 and it has 50K on it now. Cheap to change oil, filter, etc. The only bummer is the auto trans fluid is a special synthetic nissan only brand, so there's no flushing the system (because it'd be insanely expensive) so draining it, refilling it will replace most of the fluid. This truck is designed to maintain, with everything easy to get to.

Yeah when everybody thinks of a jap brand they think of yota first, but they don't get good mileage and cost more.

Would i rather have a diesel? Maybe, if it cost less to buy and was reliable. I've always heard Dodge's have GREAT engines but lousy auto transmissions. Ford Diesel engines were lemons from the factory and insanely expensive to fix. I've heard Chevy diesels were an all around reliable package. This is what i've read, seen, heard, etc but not from personal experience. I know that everyone i know with a Dodge, i ask them if they have replaced the tranny and its always 'yes' if its an auto.

 

[rockdog]

OK, I play. I've owned a lot of trucks over the years. Most were chev gas 350's. I now own a 01 f350 crew with 7.3 and auto. It is bone stock with just over 110k on it. Every truck I've owned had things I liked and disliked. The gas chev's were the most reliable things on the planet.
Do I like my Ford. You bet. But when I tow, I tow two rigs on a gooseneck. So a gas rig just wouldn't work for me. When fuel went over 3 bucks a gallon I bought a beater that I drive every day. So the truck pretty much is a tow rig now. If i were only towing one rig and needed my truck as a daily commuter then I would buy a gas truck, no doubt about it. You don't have to go over soldier summit going 80. And if guys brag about that to you they are idiots.
I guess my opinion is, get what works for you. For the love of god don't tow 15,000 lb's with a half ton. But loaded right, on the right trailer. It will get your rig to the trail and back.

 

[Rot Box]

You don't have to go over soldier summit going 80. And if guys brag about that to you they are idiots.
I guess my opinion is, get what works for you. For the love of god don't tow 15,000 lb's with a half ton.

I agree Like in my story my brother and I got a little throttle happy up Soldiers, but did not exceed the speed limit--more or less just seing what the trucks were capable of.

That being said there is nothing worse though than being the guy pulling a load through the canyon with no pull off's and two miles worth of traffic backed up in the rear view doing 35mph

Everything has a weight rating that sould always be taken note of. I like 1 tons in general because its nicer to have a higher rating and not need it than to need it and not have it imo Bigger brakes, transmission, bigger radiators and heat exchangers, two batteries are just a bonus.

 

[Vonski]

Didn't the front fall off of that thing?

Only when I borrowed it once...

So what are you getting at? Happens all the time...

 

[MR.CJ-7]

I've owned both gas and diesel trucks. First a '99 F350 PSD then an '02 8.1L gasser, now a '07 6.6L Dmax. I thought I didn't need the extra "cost" of owning a diesel for the handful of times a tow each year. As it turns out after a few pulls with the gasser I missed the diesel.

Don't get me wrong, gassers are great when properly equipped. My friend has an '05 chevy with the 6.0L in it. He as the 4.10 ratio in it as well. It is a pulling machine! In fact the last trip I made with the powerstroker he was actually able to out pull me with similar trailers in tow. I know for sure he used much less fuel than I did, which was a shocker!!! But to put it in perspective I was running 35's and a chip. I had plenty of go pedal left but the EGT's were the limiter. Now with my Dmax he can't even think of keeping up in power or fuel consumption!

All things compared equally, either type of tow rig is adequate. The cost of ownership is probably less on a gasser, but resale value is greater on a diesel. It seems there are less things to go wrong with a diesel, but when they do...get out our wallet!

Plus it doesn't really matter how many ponies you have under the hood when the semi truck cuts you off on Parley's doing 18 MPH in order to pass another semi doing 15 MPH!

 

[sixb]

You talking to me? I know I won't win this one but I will stand by what I said. I do think a Toyota Tundra, Nissan Titan or GM with a 6.0l would make a great tow rig. IMO too many people like their big diesels and nobody wants to admit a lesser gas tow rig will do the job of towing their rockcrawler in similar fashion.

Yes, a gas powered truck is not as fast as a diesel... if you're hauling a huge trailer & 2 rigs a diesel truck is much better.

Expense of general maint? Gas truck wins.

Expense of replacement parts? Gas truck wins.

Expense of fuel? Gas truck wins.

Dodge & Ford autos won't last behind a turned up diesel. Either be alright with paying $5k to build a stronger transmission or deal with shifting.


We'll use new vehicle comparisons, since that's the latest & greatest.

Toyota Tundra specs- 5.7l V8, 401 ft/lbs & 381 HP. 8000# tow capacity.

Nissan Titian specs- 5.6l V8, 379 ft/lbs & 305 HP. 6500# tow capacity.

GM/Chevy truck specs- 6.0l V8, 373 FT/LBS, 353 HP, 10,500# tow capacity


Lastly... I'm cheap. I want a truck I can just get in, drive and not worry about expensive repairs. Before our last Dodge I was a huge Dodge diesel fan. After... I won't own another Dodge diesel. Don't care for Fords. A GM with a Duramax would be cool, but they get pretty poor mileage for a diesel. Might as well drive a gas truck with a big V8 and pay less for fuel.

All my ranting is in reference to towing a rockcrawler that weighs about the average of 4,500 pounds. Add a 1,500 pound trailer for 6k total. If you're towing some massive pig on Rockwells and a backhoe trailer or 2 rigs at a time, a gas truck may not be the best choice.

You cheap, yeah right Mr Ben Hanks jeep and roof top tent
I do respect your opinion on cars, trucks and suv cause it seems like you go through quite a few of them and speak from experiance

 

[BroncoMama]

I appreciate you starting this thread Tara, I planned to start it during free time at work, but you beat me to it One thing I would really like to know is basic maintenance costs of gas v. diesel. My mother in law drives 04 one ton powerstroke and recently did a regular scheduled maintenance (at the stealership) of a tranny flush, oil change, and maybe some other fluids. The price was OUTRAGEOUS.

We're not looking to guy buy one tomorrow, but if the right deal showed up we're ready to make the commitment. It might be a week, it might be a year or more.

Another thing I have to consider is that this truck is going to be used 97% around town family vehicle, and as a tow rig maybe 8 times a year. Doing 85 up Spanish Fork Canyon is not on my top 3 list of requirements for a tow rig.

Honestly, I think having a diesel would be badass, but I don't really know if it's worth the cost. So all opinions are welcome! Influence away

You and Kami know how much I love my truck and am just googly-eyed over the fun of towing with a big truck. Now, that being said, I can't honestly say that a diesel is hands down the best option for you. I am very blessed with a stellar mechanic for a husband so he does all of the maintenance on both trucks. The only thing he hasn't done is my transmission swap, but he re-did MaKenzie's entire front end last summer and so on. Any work done at a dealership is going to cost an arm and a leg so I think that's a wash. As far as general stuff goes, we change the oil every 5,000 miles and use 1/4 synthethic and still only spend about $60 for the entire party. So $120 every 10,000 miles versus a gas engine needing 3 changes in the same amount of time. Which I have no idea what that would cost. As far as everything else goes, I don't really have a concrete number to give you for all the general upkeep because it's all put into the maintenance category with all the equipment, trailers, etc and the final number would scare the pants right off of you. The joy of being self employed right there.

What I would consider is what best suits your needs for today and the long run. I view diesels as more of an investment because if you're going to hold on to a truck and take care of it, I think that's the best way to go seeing as it's pretty hard to kill a diesel. If you want more of a works for today and we'll see what the future holds, a gas engine would probably fit your needs just fine.

And there is my .02 cents for this lovely Friday morning!

 

[Vonski]

With the popularity of diesel trucks much lower than in the last several years (especially after last summer's fuel prices), I see more of a reason to own a diesel truck.

Most people factor in the inital purchase price, fuel mileage, and cost of fuel (we all know that any of them will out-perform their gas powered counter part, so lets not argue that).

So, of the three factors mentioned above, the only one we have no control over is fluctuating fuel costs. The intial cost of diesel trucks right now is rediculously low (used or new), they will always get good mileage (depending on which one you choose), and if diesel prices go up, gasoline prices aren't too far behind cost-wise anyway.

Sure, you will pay a little more at the pump, but get better mileage. With the ability to buy a diesel truck today for the price that a gasoline powered truck was just a year ago, why not???

I don't care to push my rig much beyond the speed limit or brag about how fast I can pull my trailer over the summit. However, I do like the piece of mind that if I need to pass someone on a two lane highway, I can do it quickly and without worry (and many of those being passed speed upwhile you're doing it, right?). Any of you towing your rig back from Moab on a Sunday evening know how important that can be.

 

[MR.CJ-7]

However, I do like the piece of mind that if I need to pass someone on a two lane highway, I can do it quickly and without worry (and many of those being passed speed upwhile you're doing it, right?).

AMEN to that!!!

Nothing worse than going to pass and having too little acceleration!

It's nice to be able to pass the family cruising the mini van at 45mph on a 55mph two lane on a sunday drive. I like the awe struck look on "dad's" face when I blow by him like he's standing still with a 35' trailer in tow.

 

[BroncoMama]

It's nice to be able to pass the family cruising the mini van at 45mph on a 55mph two lane on a sunday drive. I like the awe struck look on "dad's" face when I blow by him like he's standing still with a 35' trailer in tow.

That does give one the warm fuzzies!