Also typical, state a strong opinion against someone else, then refuse to listen to another word.
Political Let's talk about the Biden family problem.
- Thread starter Herzog
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Also typical, state a strong opinion against someone else, then refuse to listen to another word.
Pike2350
Registered User
- Location
- Salt Lake City
Never said I wouldn't listen....just said I'm done with the argument. I stated no one will change anyone's mind....which is true. I don't know a single undecided voter. I think there really arent any...at least not here.
I actually listen to all sides and personally hate both sides...hence why I vote Libertarian every election since I could vote. The .gov is a circus and nothing I can really do will change it.
So he hurt your feelings with words? I mean, I get it. He's not "presidential" and in my opinion, thank god. I'm tired of "Presidential" presidents. The Clinton, Bush and Obama years were some of the most bullshit years we've ever had. All 3 are criminal. Some will whine and say "Obama's not criminal" and I'll reply with just wait and watch what comes out.
This tells me you have no idea how the commerce legal system is setup and works. Bankruptcy to a person like you or I is a failure. Bankruptcy to people on his level is moving assets and saving millions.
This tells me you only repeating what you're seeing on the TV.
I've voted Libertarian since 2008. This is the first year I'm voting for a Republican President in a long ass time.
Put in 3 constitutionalist supreme court justices
220 constitutionalist federal judges
Brought back a ton of mfging to US with more on the way
We are energy independent now
Got us out of that paris accord scam
Got rid of the penalty bullshit from Obamacare but is retaining the a couple of the good ideas like "pre-existing conditions"
Fix a ton of issues with the VA including allowing vets to seek out local doctors if they are too far from a VA hosptial
Net exports are looking to hit nearly $60 Billion this year
Replaced NAFTA with a better trade agreement. Now we're not getting bent over on that bad deal
Not only that but renegotiated better deals across the board with many counties that were raping us financially
FIRST PRESIDENT TO NOT START A NEW GOD DAMNED WAR IN A LONG ASS TIME
In fact, he's made peace deals all over the place. Why haven't you heard of about any of that I wonder? Everybody was saying we'd be in a nuclear war with NK within the first year. Epic TDS.
Big focus on human trafficking
Pulled out of the fake Iran Nuclear Deal. We were sending crates of money to Iran so they could pretend to not build arms. Hilarious.
and that's just off the top of my head. So, he's an asshole. But he gets the job done.
What has Biden done besides get his family rich? At least Don was rich before he went in.
- Location
- The Village of Kay
All these arguments should direct everyone to Jo Jorgensen.
She is all about FREEDOM! Taxation is theft! All weapons should be legal!
She is all about FREEDOM! Taxation is theft! All weapons should be legal!
Oh believe me, I'm utopian libertarian at heart... but the realism hit me when a bunch of folks on this forum freaked out about a thing as miniscule as not having year safety inspections. I don't know what to say... I lost a lot of heart that day. A lot of people lack personal responsibility... and that is just sad.
Edit: statement in reference to the fact that people need to be responsible for their actions for a true ancap libertarian society to succeed. But absolutely without a doubt taxation is theft and shall not infringe.
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Pike2350
Registered User
- Location
- Salt Lake City
Ok so you don't want a presidential leader. Presidential means way more then not being a criminal (although I'm guessing Trump will have his fair share of "watch what comes out")
I understand perfectly well how business bankruptcy works and that it is very different then personal bankruptcy. I also understand that the moving of assets and "hiding" them is still failing. It's having more debt then you can service. Niw he very well may have leveraged all his assets and businesses and hid the money and declared bankruptcy so he's either a liar and scam artist or he runs businesses poorly and gets out with little affect on his personal self. You can call it smart business but I call it a lack of integrity. Filing bankruptcy is should be a last resort when tou've tried everything else you can...and then there should be some shame associated with it for both businesses as well as personal (outside of major life changing events)
I wont argue all these points because many are a matter of opinion (constitutionalist judges) but I dont know of much mfg that has come back under him. Our trade deficit has not shrunk AT ALL under him. And in fact went up from '17-'19.
I wont say he hasnt done some good things....every president has....the saying of even a blind squirrel and all.
I'm not going to argue for Biden....he isnt my real choice....but I just feel he's better the what we've got. Maybe it's the grass is greener mentality or less orange...but either way I'll admit it if I'm wrong.
Sorry just couldn't resist. Last one I swear
🤐
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4x4_Welder
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Twin Falls, ID
One of them just needs to say legal weed and the contest would be over.
- Location
- The Village of Kay
Again, Jo Jorgensen...
anderson750
I'm working on it Rose
- Location
- Price, Utah
Anybody who thinks Biden if elected will fill a 4 year term is delusional. Nancy's 25th amendment speech a few weeks ago had nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with Joe's dementia that is abundantly obvious. If you are casting a vote for Biden you are most likely casting a vote for Harris......and that woman is certifiably a socialist.
johngottfredson
Threat Level Midnight
- Location
- Alpine
I can accept that Trump accomplished all these things, agree that they're good, and that Biden is who you say he is, and I'm still going to vote Biden.
I think that the most important safeguard we have as a country against total failure is a healthy political system and a civic-minded electorate. Trump has done great damage to both, and the negative impact of that will outlast all the good policies and initiatives he's accomplished, a supreme court majority not excepted.
Clearly Trump is smart and talented. He understands branding and messaging like nobody else in Washington. He is very business savvy. Even the hit pieces about his $1B in debt acknowledge his strong assets and business accomplishments. Nobody will doubt his self-assuredness, his fearlessness. All these traits lead him to be able to do Herzog's list, in ways few other politicians would dare.
However, it's these same traits that have caused the damage I'm voting against.
Everyone loved in the primaries when he would make fun of 'little Marco'. Great fun, right? But Trump wasn't convincing people that Rubio's policy plans weren't sound, he was convincing them that he was the Alpha, by mocking an opponent's stature. Great branding! Little, also meaning weak, not up to the job. Crushed him easily. It's a tactic he has successfully employed throughout his term, leaving traditional Republicans running and hiding from his heavy twitter artillery fire, until they back down and fall in line. Clearly this will not phase those who like to see their guy kick ass. But any actual idea that this is how a healthy democracy thrives, with elected leaders cowering in fear of the president if they don't constantly praise him, is wrong.
This dovetails into another Trumpism. He's never wrong! It's a Trump article of faith, very important to his brand. What is he willing to do to support this idea? Create an alternate reality! The ultimate baller move. If there is any information that disagrees with me, it's fake news! So all public trust in government agencies, journalism, academia, other countries, and even (or especially?) other politicians is gone for half the country. Part of a healthy electorate is being independent minded, and thinking critically about where their information is coming from. But wholesale rejection, as Trump requires, is very bad for civic health.
Trump has mastered the art of leveraging people's anger, fears, and baser impulses. His fluffers are pleased to dismiss it as "brashness," when in reality he has ratcheted up discord and political animosity to peak levels.
This baser version of Republicanism will come back to bite all those who actually believe in the party's ideals. The millennials and gen z are now permanently imprinted with an image of 'brash' Trump whenever they think of Republicanism, and they are set to become 60% of the actual voting electorate in 8-10 years. Angry white folks can only win so many elections.
So how can I most strongly register my objection to what the Republican party has opted to be? Voting for Biden and the democrats, who also suck. I hope Trumpism loses by historic margins.
xjtony
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Grantsville, Ut
What really kills me in all this is the simple fact that the 2 party system has made Americans really believe that a vote for a third party is a waste. Look at the numbers, roughly half of registered voters don't vote in general elections. Even "hotly contested" ones. I think for a majority of Americans neither of the primary parties really align with all of our view points. If the disenfranchised voted for a third party, any third party, it would wake up the establishment when they saw say 100 million votes leaving the mainstream parties. We have gotten to the point that the parties are telling the constituents what they believe rather than the other way around. If you don't like either candidate, don't vote for them. Find a party that aligns with your views and vote. Unless the Republican/Democrat establishment sees significant loss of their base to other parties, they wont change the way they operate.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
I agree with a lot of the above but Biden is NOT the answer. Harris will be pres pdq if Biden/Harris is elected. Trump is a buffoon at best. Has done some good things and I'm happy to see the greater DC politicians in an "awkward" state. For REAL change, ALL incumbents need to be swept out of office for the next 5-6 election cycles. Then the people need to hold the new reps accountable for term limits AND lobbyist elimination/reform. ANY LOBBYIST IS DISQUALIFIED FROM HOLDING POLITICAL OFFICE. Any former politician or their families CANNOT BE A LOBBYIST
Let's add no dual citizenship for politicians too.
anderson750
I'm working on it Rose
- Location
- Price, Utah
^^^^^^This. DC has a visceral hate for Trump because he is a disruptor to the ruling class. Division creates job security for them and they all......Democrat and Republicans are all playing the family enrichment game. When Trump is re-elected and has nothing to lose, I think you will see a clean up of people from both parties who have been grifting our country by selling out access to other countries. DC is a dirty and sleazy town and it is almost being acceptable to the point that it is not hidden.
I appreciate your view and you taking the time to type that out. The one thing I'd rebut with is the fact that the democrat media machine is what has actually stoked most of the doom and gloom. The media is responsible for the "He's never wrong", fear and anger. If you don't believe me, which side is it that's burning down buildings? Which side is it that organizes actually peacefully? You have thousands show up armed at state capitols to show their support for the Constitution and nothing bad happens. You then have the media inflate an issue with a guy on fentynal and you have buildings burn and people kicked to the curb. Which is it? Did Trump do that? I don't think so man...
He hasn't made me angry at all. Most of everybody I talk to who supports Trump are very kind and intelligent people who just want their country to succeed. None of them are racist. Which side is trying to fan that flame again?
What he has done is show me that there are people in high places that are willing to sell out the American people for profits and evil deeds.
He's shown me that America has been sold out the China over the years. If that's not obvious, take a look at everything in your house. Where was it made?
He's shown me that the establishment is even more corrupt that I originally thought. These politicians are all blackmailed and are playing by a script. I'm kind of astonished that most people can't see this now.
Anyhow, good. I'm glad the image of the Republican party is changing, because for the last couple decades the party has just been there to help shift the Overton Window for the Democrats. "We don't support XYZ but we won't do anything about it".... few years later: "We support XYZ". It's been damn shame. Republicans have had zero backbone for far too long. But that's because of bunch of them are blackmailed too. What do you think Epstein's role in this world really was? Time to pull out that conspiracy theorist card I guess.
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
The presidency and high levels of government are not really the place to train someone with zero governing experience. While I support the idea of term limits for the House and Senate as well as president, we need top post to be filled by people with experience.
As to Trump, I have been a very vocal anti-Trump from the start because of his moral failings (bullying, constant lies etc.) But has he has "lead" of the last 4 years, he has taken the GOP in a direction that has lead me to change my voter registration from Republican to unaffiliated.
I strongly disagree with his stance and policy on immigration. We need to simplify the legal immigration process, not demonize immigrants and put further limits on legal immigration as he has done (feel free to fact check me on that one- he has decreased pretty much all forms of legal immigration).
There is also no honest way to claim there is no racism in his speech or actions. Telling minorities to 'go back where they came form' is pure racism. And we have video of him smiling while he crowd chants 'send her back' in reference to a US Senator. That and the lack of GOP condemnation was the straw that caused me to change registration away from the party.
I also do not agree with their policies on trade, international relations (failure to support allies) and I feel the tax cuts where not worth the long-term deficit.
Do I agree with all of the Democratic platform points? Absolutely not. I am pro-Second Amendment and pro-life, but also recognize the president has little influence over either of those (Congress and the Courts do.)
On environmental policy I am squarely between the two extremes.
So at this point, I believe the most important thing we need is leadership that will seek to build unity instead of division, which clearly is not Trump.
Biden (despite what far-right media claims and the focus on his son) seems to be much more the decent human being than Trump.
anderson750
I'm working on it Rose
- Location
- Price, Utah
Trump===> Tells you straight up what is wrong and how it needs to be fixed. Makes you scared and uneasy because this is not how politicians do it.
Biden===> Tells you what you want to hear so you feel comfortable and then does what all politicians do and follow the direction of lobbyists or whoever else is padding their pockets.
The swamp is a real thing and is slowly eating away at our constitution rights and what is morally right.
- Location
- The Village of Kay
That had nothing to do with that senators race and everything to do with her disdain of America. Plain and simple.
"Some people did something..."