Pompeo is the one who said it. Do we not trust him? Or just not in this case? I'm losing track.
Political Let's talk about the Biden family problem.
- Thread starter Herzog
- Start date
Political discussions within
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
Electoral college part as been well covered. Agree it should stay.
As to removing money from "private interest groups" or banning "lobbyists" keep in mind that includes any organization that believes in a cause, whether it be the NRA or a 4 wheel drive association pushing to keep trail access. "Special interests" are easy to demonize until we realize most of us are one (or more.)
The proliferation of news sources is an interesting issue. While more outlets on the face of it is a good thing, the problem is that many people seem to seek information for those sources that tell the story they agree with (the only ones 'willing to tell the truth'.)
If you love Trump, then only Breitbart, One America Network and Fox are honest. For a die-hard liberal, anything right of MSNBC must be lying. Since we get our news from different sources, people of different viewpoints can't even agree on the facts, let alone what to do with them.
Getting news from multiple sources and from a political spectrum gives a more accurate picture, and I think there are several outlets at both extremes that are worth ignoring.
Personally, I get most my info from Deseret News (I would say moderate, right of center) and NPR (moderate, left of center) and then read articles from a variety of online sources including New York Times, Washington Post, Politico, Wall Street Journal etc. Factually, most of these are very close even if they do have a political overtone I may or may not agree with. If a "story" only gains traction with sources on wide side of the political spectrum, that is reason not to put much stock in it.
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
Elections have consequences.
I sure hope that a lasting effect on RME is not among the consequences of this election.
There are two forums I used to be a fixture on, that I haven't visited since shortly after the 2016 election. The heart felt outpouring of vitriol, loathing, contempt and hate, for people like me, that took over for a couple weeks on those forums, following the election, caused me to leave them, forever. I just hadn't ever realized how many people, that don't know me, that I had no ill feelings towards (I don't care who you vote for, even if it's Hillary), hate me so much, just for being me. Genuine hate, deep, from the heart, for about half the country. It was eye opening.
One thing I'm sure of, to paraphrase Judge Holden and Henry V, is that there are those yet unborn that will have cause to curse the soul of our next President. Whichever one it is.
- DAA
I sure hope that a lasting effect on RME is not among the consequences of this election.
There are two forums I used to be a fixture on, that I haven't visited since shortly after the 2016 election. The heart felt outpouring of vitriol, loathing, contempt and hate, for people like me, that took over for a couple weeks on those forums, following the election, caused me to leave them, forever. I just hadn't ever realized how many people, that don't know me, that I had no ill feelings towards (I don't care who you vote for, even if it's Hillary), hate me so much, just for being me. Genuine hate, deep, from the heart, for about half the country. It was eye opening.
One thing I'm sure of, to paraphrase Judge Holden and Henry V, is that there are those yet unborn that will have cause to curse the soul of our next President. Whichever one it is.
- DAA
xjtony
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Grantsville, Ut
I agree totally. It amazes me that we are a nation bickering over what politician will throw us the biggest bone. In actuality the politicians should be begging the people for the power we give them, not bribing voters with perks and policies that usually dont end up happeneing anyways. We have given politicians WAY TOO MUCH power. Prime example... if anyone at any point during this pandemic has been looking to any politician, let alone Donald Trump, for how to be safe you were lost from the beginning. DT is a business man, not a medical professional. I dont ask the cashier at walmart how to fix my car, why would I ask anyone but a medical professional how to stay healthy. I am not a Democrat or Republican. I have voted either way many times. Both sides are corrupt and power hungry.
But can't groups still lobby on behalf of their interests, without the involvement of money? By money, I mean money to buy the vote of the politician in question?
I strongly believe in free press even if it does lead to a lot of trash reporting, but I think it would be even more difficult to put government restrictions on the press than it would be to take away A2 rights. I'm sure some will say the government is already controlling the press, but having some personal ties to journalists I just don't buy into the massive government conspiracy conspiracy. I'm sure there are members of the media in the pockets of DC, and vice versa, but I don't believe it's a universal conspiracy to control information. Just a little business as usual.
anderson750
I'm working on it Rose
- Location
- Price, Utah
I have watched and read these exchanges from the sidelines and am not sure why you are making that comment. I think all the comments have been very civil from both sides of the coin. Nobody here is going to change your mind and I don't think you are going to change anybody else's. I think everybody in here can agree to disagree without any name calling or hate that @DAA saw on other forums
I believe this climate is making people act in ways they normally never would. The tug-of-way effect is real. The harder one side pulls, the more the other side has to pull to keep things even. Nobody can deny that the media gave Obama a pass on everything he did wrong, and may have even praised it... and now condemns everything trump does even when it is good for our country. The lies and deception is unreal. When the media and loud left extremist push so hard, the hard right extremists have to push hard as well. Example, did you ever see armed civilians standing outside a 7-11 prior to rioters burning down the neighborhood?
The us vs. them mentality has been played so hard by extremes on both sides, that it becomes ingrained in our minds. Example: I have a neighbor that I absolutely love. From what I could tell, he and I were cut from the same cloth. They put up a little Biden flag in the front flower garden, and my first reaction was 'I didn't think they were that stupid'.. I was able to catch myself in my poor thinking, and reminded myself that they are good friends, and it's ok to be different.
I don't think most people can recognize that they have been programmed to be so divisive, which only continues to make it worse. If one side or the other could let up on the tug-of-war just a little, maybe we could begin to heal a little.
However, until the media can act right, I don't see a lot of change happening. They will be the cause of violence or peace based on the narrative they choose to share.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Just to weigh in real quick, for years we (RME) have danced around deep political and religions discussions because they can quickly become arguments with someone walking away with hurt feelings. Personally I feel like we all are mature enough to have a balanced, logical discussion, share opinions and not get to the point that makes participants feel like they're done spending time on here.
I really don't want anyone to feel like they can't share their opinion on here about these subjects. Its a open discussion... opinions are wide and deep. Let's try to share, respect and possibly try to see things from a different perspective, if possible.
Carry on....
I really don't want anyone to feel like they can't share their opinion on here about these subjects. Its a open discussion... opinions are wide and deep. Let's try to share, respect and possibly try to see things from a different perspective, if possible.
Carry on....
Noahfecks
El Destructo!
- Location
- Glenwoody Springs, CO
The notion of getting rid of the electoral college shows that many people dont grasp the concept of a republic. Our founding fathers knew that pure democracy leads to mob rule and tyranny. If you dont understand why we have the electoral college I recommend you read federalist paper #68 (actually I recommend you read them all). The electoral college is the only thing that makes the vote of a small population state voter relevant.
If you really wanted to tweak the electoral college I would propose the following: This concept would need to be executed at the state level because it is up to the states to award their electoral college votes as they see fit. Most states award their votes on a winner take all basis, ie the popular vote within the state awards all of the electoral college votes to one candidate. I would propose that states choose to award their electoral college votes by popular vote within each congressional district. Under my proposal it would be possible for a split of electoral college votes within a state. This would make each congressional district as important as any other to a presidential candidate. I believe that is how you make each individuals vote more relevant.
And to whoever stupidly suggested I would feel differently if my side were in the majority, educate yourself dummy. My opinions are based on principles, those don't change. I am sorry that you have no anchor but don't project your ignorance on me.
If you really wanted to tweak the electoral college I would propose the following: This concept would need to be executed at the state level because it is up to the states to award their electoral college votes as they see fit. Most states award their votes on a winner take all basis, ie the popular vote within the state awards all of the electoral college votes to one candidate. I would propose that states choose to award their electoral college votes by popular vote within each congressional district. Under my proposal it would be possible for a split of electoral college votes within a state. This would make each congressional district as important as any other to a presidential candidate. I believe that is how you make each individuals vote more relevant.
And to whoever stupidly suggested I would feel differently if my side were in the majority, educate yourself dummy. My opinions are based on principles, those don't change. I am sorry that you have no anchor but don't project your ignorance on me.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
I don't think my opinions will change a single mind on any political issue and I don't really care. For that reason, I generally stay away from discussions like these. The other reason I steer clear of these problematic threads is because I have a big mouth like Cody, but not the big brain to back it up.
So you see, it's really out of my respect for this forum and it's long standing members that I restrain myself from jumping in here and railroading this bitch right into the drama files.
So you see, it's really out of my respect for this forum and it's long standing members that I restrain myself from jumping in here and railroading this bitch right into the drama files.
That’s not what this is about man. It’s healthy to have these debates. I would in no way ask you to stop posting your views.
Never “step in line”. Make your case and appreciate living in a country where different views are allowed. I mean, you wouldn’t think that was the case with the media but I truely believe it is. I’m capable of being an ass here but also not hating anybody for their view.
You bet buddy.
I certainly hope by that you just mean this thread and not the forum
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
It is sad that those with the less popular opinion feel that way.
I really don't want anyone to feel like they can't share their opinion on here about these subjects. Its a open discussion... opinions are wide and deep. Let's try to share, respect and possibly try to see things from a different perspective, if possible.
Carry on....
Exactly how we need to all think and feel.
Absolutely not how we need think, talk and act. The name calling is 100% uncalled for.
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
Had a discussion with my wife last night about very similar idea. Electoral college vote represented by members of Congress allocated by congressional district with overall state winner taking the 2 votes represented by senators.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Just playing devils advocate here. Wouldn't a candidate be able to campaign wholly in populated areas and still have an advantage over the current system that way?
Map of congressional districts: (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/map)
Map of red/blue effective for 2018 "mid-term" election: (https://www.270towin.com/2018-house-election/)
xjtony
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Grantsville, Ut
The second map really shows why I believe that the electoral college is important. I've lived a rural lifestyle most of my life, and have honestly been on both sides of the argument. The issue is that most of the country is physically populated by people who tend to be conservative, because its the best fit for their way of life. A large percentage of the population lives in a comparatively small portion of our country. Living in both I can tell you that most people have absolutely no idea how the other side really lives, and without the EC the urban portion of our population will dominate the political landscape (be they either Republican or Democrat). Policies will be made based on urban living and the rural population, which provides most of what is needed to life in the cities, would be totally unrepresented on the national scale. Worst case (me putting on my conspiracy hat) those of us living outside the major population areas would essentially become serfs to those living in them.
All but 2 states, Maine and Nebraska use the majority voting system where one candidate receives all the electoral votes. Like @UT410 stated, some major regulations on redistricting would have to be put in place to allow electors to be awarded properly. Unfortunately given the current state of politics I would say that trying to implement these changes would be rife with corruption and political games.
All but 2 states, Maine and Nebraska use the majority voting system where one candidate receives all the electoral votes. Like @UT410 stated, some major regulations on redistricting would have to be put in place to allow electors to be awarded properly. Unfortunately given the current state of politics I would say that trying to implement these changes would be rife with corruption and political games.