WayneXJ
grocery getter driver
- Location
- So. Jordan
mbryson said:
It's not even the same trail that it was just a few years back.
List Illegal Bypasses!
- Thread starter Klif01
- Start date
It's not even the same trail that it was just a few years back.
greenjeep
Cause it's green, duh!
- Location
- Moab Local!
A group of us, mostly Moab Friends for Wheelin' club members, did a scouting trip up Pritchett Canyon a couple months ago with some BLM representitives, and uness I'm mistaken the bypass to the Rock Pile was ok'd by the BLM. We are still trying to clarify the Rocker Knocker bypass and weather or not it is in the WSA, we are looking at the possibility of getting it "legalized." Drtsqrl can correct me if I'm wrong since he is spearheading the Pritchett Canyon work.
Klif01
Do I bother you?
- Location
- Denver, CO
greenjeep said:
Thank you very much for the update. Let us know about anything else we are in the wrong in.
Well at least me, cause it seams that I am the only one that takes bypasses and gets the blame for it... Well, maybe I am the only person that tells anyone about it...
JackKeslerCustoms
Active Member
- Location
- Herriman
greenjeep said:
I did Pritchett with the Labor day campout 2 years ago, and all three of the gunners took the bypass at the rockpile. I was surprised at some of the other attempted lines on that obstacle that people were trying.
Greenjeep is right. At the Rockpile, the bypass is not in WSA, so the BLM is pretty muck okay with it. (Since all the rocks on the Rockpile dissapeared a few years ago, that obstacle is impossible for 95% of rigs unless you winch, so the bypass is pretty much a necessity.)
The Rocker Knocker bypass is probably within the WSA boundary, but the BLM has not been able to tell us yet for sure. We would like to make that bypass much easier (and legal!), so as to help reduce the bottleneck that often develops at Rocker Knocker. We are working with BLM and the County on this.
Also, speaking of illegal bypasses, the first drop off into Pritchett has developed a route that goes from the bottom of the ledges down into the wash bottom, the back up to the trail. This route is definately within the WSA (goes right by a WSA carsonite sign), and is also damaging a tree. This route MUST be closed, or it could put the entire trail in jeopardy.
One other thing. Many illegal bypasses start out as bicycle, motorcycle, or ATV bypasses, the are eventually used as jeep routes. This is very prevelent on Pritchett, and also on Cliffhanger. Not that it is right, but just shows that all trail users need to follow the rules.
Jeff
The Rocker Knocker bypass is probably within the WSA boundary, but the BLM has not been able to tell us yet for sure. We would like to make that bypass much easier (and legal!), so as to help reduce the bottleneck that often develops at Rocker Knocker. We are working with BLM and the County on this.
Also, speaking of illegal bypasses, the first drop off into Pritchett has developed a route that goes from the bottom of the ledges down into the wash bottom, the back up to the trail. This route is definately within the WSA (goes right by a WSA carsonite sign), and is also damaging a tree. This route MUST be closed, or it could put the entire trail in jeopardy.
One other thing. Many illegal bypasses start out as bicycle, motorcycle, or ATV bypasses, the are eventually used as jeep routes. This is very prevelent on Pritchett, and also on Cliffhanger. Not that it is right, but just shows that all trail users need to follow the rules.
Jeff
Fade2Black said:
I guess you could call it a boulder. It's just a giant rock ledge--you can do a funny angle/turn or approch it however your vehicle allows
Other rigs bypassing the only obstacle that still remains difficult. The route by the cliff edge is not part of rusty nail.
If the "boulder" on the first obstacle could move, then we are not talking about the same obstacle. May have been an illusion.
Yup, thats gay. There were 3 or 4 other trees that used to be on the right side too that forced you to take the wall, or an extremely technical climb up the middle. Now any idiot with a strap and 33's can get up the right side
Just cause a lot of idiots get onto a trial that contains an obstacle that is way over their abilities and make a chicken **** go around, doesn't mean it's OK. Same thing goes for Rock Pile and Rocker Knocker. People get on that trail without a hope and a prayer of climbing one or both of those obstacles, bypass, and they 'did' Pritchett. People liek that are kind of a running joke amongst the people I wheel with.
So, accept for taking the illegal bypass around the only reasonably difficult obstacle that is left on rusty nail, yah, you "did" Rusty Nail.
I walked up Upper Proving grounds on my feet after breaking on the first obstacle, so I guess you could say I 'did' UPG too.
no hard feelings bud.
Cody
Fade2Black
Drinking bone
- Location
- Ogden, UT
Thanks for the info, Cody.
There are other obstacles on Rusty Nail, like No Left Turn, and then remaining parts of whatever trail RN dumps you onto.
We did 1/4 of the trail in the dark.
Also, on Rusty Nail, after a certain point there is no going back.
I love how some people, not naming names, look at a trail as easy, when they are looking at it from the aspect of having run it in a dual-locked tubed-out vehicle that is bordering on being a buggy.
Rusty Nail was not easy for my truck, but I completed the trail regardless and without any mechanical damage. It may be easy for some people, but there are a lot of people out on the trail who don't have buggies.
That's just an observation I have made from reading forums like Pirate and RME.
I'm sure that when my truck finally has my solid axle, swampers, another locker, and dual cases under it, Rusty Nail will be easy.
There are other obstacles on Rusty Nail, like No Left Turn, and then remaining parts of whatever trail RN dumps you onto.
We did 1/4 of the trail in the dark.
Also, on Rusty Nail, after a certain point there is no going back.
I love how some people, not naming names, look at a trail as easy, when they are looking at it from the aspect of having run it in a dual-locked tubed-out vehicle that is bordering on being a buggy.
Rusty Nail was not easy for my truck, but I completed the trail regardless and without any mechanical damage. It may be easy for some people, but there are a lot of people out on the trail who don't have buggies.
That's just an observation I have made from reading forums like Pirate and RME.
I'm sure that when my truck finally has my solid axle, swampers, another locker, and dual cases under it, Rusty Nail will be easy.
Last edited:
Klif01
Do I bother you?
- Location
- Denver, CO
Fade2Black said:
My rig's better than you'rs thomas....besides, mine even has more parking tickets!!!
j/k
BTW if we are talking about the same obsticle, the first obsticle is kindof a large rock that comes out at a v, you can take the left side and kindof straddle the corner, or take it on the right where if you back up you hit a short undercut ledge correct? Do you still have the pics from thanksgiving thomas? Anyway the only bypass I can see to that was the trail that goes around far left and goes on the edge of the clif. It sure would be nice if everything was clear-er-er though :-\
Fade2Black
Drinking bone
- Location
- Ogden, UT
That's the obstacle I'm thinking of.
I don't have pictures of that obstacle, but I could have sworn that there was a boulder before the ledge.
I don't have pictures of that obstacle, but I could have sworn that there was a boulder before the ledge.
Fade2Black said:
You're right. Difficulty of trails is definatly relative to what you drive. My point however is that can you really say you 'completed' rusty nail even though you drove around 33% of it? If I hike 66% of Everest, then can't make it any farther and have a helicopter drop me on top--did i 'successfully complete' my climb?
My ultimate point is if people can't negotiate the terrain on a given trail then they shouldn't be on that trail. People get in over their head and thats when they start making bypasses and such.I did Rusty Nail today, and the big ass rock has indeed moved. There is no longer a need for a bypass since a subaru could now climb up and over the rock. So, with the rock having moved on obstacle 1, and asshats destroying trees and gradually expanding the 2nd obstacle further and further right, I say the difficulty of RN is about the same as Moab Rim--and only because you lean towards an edge a couple times. I don't see why you would even need a locker anymore.
It's a shame really.
Cody
To be honest though Cody, The second obstical, if you drive right up the wall, is way harder now than it was in the past. When I first did the trail I was able to make the climb and now would never make it. The easy way to the right used to be the hard route so it is kind of hard to call it a bypass.
Fade2Black
Drinking bone
- Location
- Ogden, UT
Cody,
That really sucks that the trail is getting tamed down, just as my truck is getting to the point where it could negotiate that boulder obstacle.
Is there any way to do some maintenance on it? Maybe put a fence in to keep people confined to the existing paths?
I want to run it again, but if it's going to be easier, maybe I'll just try Pritchett or something.
That really sucks that the trail is getting tamed down, just as my truck is getting to the point where it could negotiate that boulder obstacle.
Is there any way to do some maintenance on it? Maybe put a fence in to keep people confined to the existing paths?
I want to run it again, but if it's going to be easier, maybe I'll just try Pritchett or something.
I don't think it's anyones fault that the big boulder broke off from the wall on teh first obstacle--it just did. I don't think anyone will even need the bypass anymore--it really is that much different. The 2nd obstacle keeps changing--some lines get harder, some get easier. No left turn is sketchy but is it really that hard?
I just hate it because, in general, a lot of people get into trails that are over their head and they make it easier by modifying the trail or creating a bypass. So, the few truly difficult trails we have/had become easier and easier until there are none left. It's sad, but thats why you see so many idiots in buggy's trying to find new challenges--many of the old ones are gone now.
Cody
I just hate it because, in general, a lot of people get into trails that are over their head and they make it easier by modifying the trail or creating a bypass. So, the few truly difficult trails we have/had become easier and easier until there are none left. It's sad, but thats why you see so many idiots in buggy's trying to find new challenges--many of the old ones are gone now.
Cody
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Fade2Black said:
....and that one's getting 'tamed down' as well.
Johnny4X4
Active Member
- Location
- West Valley City, Utah
i think for the most part people dont know what they arew getting into, and once there they are stuck with the "well i cant go back that way what do i do now" attitude. i remeber my first time in moab,9 years ago i was driving my big bronco, it was new, nothing but larger tires on it, i saw a road i took it, and after i dropped down a few ledges, i found myself stuck. i was seriously walking around looking for a way out when i came across a few guys with winches who said they could get me out.
the problem was there was no sign designating the terain i was in for.
i was a stupid kid with a new 4 wheel drive.
i think there should actualy be a sign at the both ends of these trails stating a minimum of what is needed to do the trail, i think that would help cut down on bypasses. i have compared alot of roads to the popular moab trail guide since then, and have noticed one mans opinion of a hard trail in a book has often been easy in my lifted, double locked, jeep with a winch. but to the big bronco(now with a lift and rear arb) it still may be hard.
anyway, has anyone ever looked into the idea of putting up signs like that on trails in moab-- i have seen them in other trails and in other states.
the problem was there was no sign designating the terain i was in for.
i was a stupid kid with a new 4 wheel drive.
i think there should actualy be a sign at the both ends of these trails stating a minimum of what is needed to do the trail, i think that would help cut down on bypasses. i have compared alot of roads to the popular moab trail guide since then, and have noticed one mans opinion of a hard trail in a book has often been easy in my lifted, double locked, jeep with a winch. but to the big bronco(now with a lift and rear arb) it still may be hard.
anyway, has anyone ever looked into the idea of putting up signs like that on trails in moab-- i have seen them in other trails and in other states.
We (RR4W) have put trailhead signs on several of the most popular EJS routes. The signs include the trail rating, but do not list "minimum requirements". (We are working on a proposal, however, to post a "minimum requirements" type of sign on Pritchett.)
As for posting signs at more trailheads, that is a possibility in the future. However, BLM has not been in favor of signing all the trails (doesn't make sense to me, but they think signs will lead to increased use on some trails). Also, it seems that rating signs sometime have the opposite effect of what we want... "Oh look, Bob, that trail's a 4+! Let's see if we can get this ol' POS through it!"
One other thing to keep in mind. Rusty Nail (between the first obstacle and the connection to Golden Spike) is not on any BLM map I have ever seen. They are aware of it, and have never attempted to close it, but its "legallity" is a question mark. The RR4W have submitted it as an EJS trail for our next 5-year permit, in hopes of legallizing it, but don't be surprised if it "goes away" when the new RMP comes out.
Jeff
Capt. Picky
quite
- Location
- Moab, UT.
Greetings -
I hope you will take what I write below as a useful bit of advice and not as a thorough criticism. I have taken the liberty to include a moments levity here and there however.
I hope you will take what I write below as a useful bit of advice and not as a thorough criticism. I have taken the liberty to include a moments levity here and there however.
Johnny4X4 said:That's a problem right there. When I started four wheeling in Canyon Country (1984) and this place was not at all heavily used during that interim period of time - between the Uranium boom and the 4x4 boom - one erred on the side of sensibility and safety. Such thoughts would appear to be at an all time premium these days.
Now, I'm inclined to ask had they - the winchers - not come along, what then would you have done to extricate yourself from that predicament? We used to use a thing called "feet" to check out the situation ahead at *any time* the next few yards appeared to be the point of no return. In fact I still rely upon those incredible creations to examine dicey / thready/ *changeable*/ and *unknown* trails and sections of trails to this very day. There seems to be a paucity of those who know about "feet".
Your newness will be excused, but only to the minimum of degree. Everyone starts at the beginning - including myself - but, please see the above. Worked (and still works) for me.
As far as signs go, there wasn't Sign ONE when I started doing any of these trails, and I liked it like that.
Maybe, in the most miniscule number of cases. My experience and observations dictate otherwise however. :-/
That's precisely why signs of such a nature are next to useless. There was a guy who wrote several hiking books on various areas. He stated how blah-blah could be walked in "x number" of minutes/hours, and that was how fast it could be done. Well, it would all depend on one's condition / physique and *what the purpose* of ones trip was, wouldn't it? Same applies to 4 wheeling ability/ one's four-wheeler/ and the purpose behind why you're doing the trail.
As Jeff Stevens (Drtsqrl) has stated.
I'll add: "Geez man...do we need yet another bunch of signs?" Why stop there? How about to include how much lunch or dinner you should bring as well? A reminder sign might be in order too: "Got gas?"
Lastly, these signs get to be costly (VERY costly) if you don't want them to end up as a conversation piece in someones living room.
Capt. Picky