Lost Josephine Mine/Hoyt Peak - Scranton and the Buckhorn
All new this month.
www.goldrushexpeditions.com
Enjoy!!
All new this month.
www.goldrushexpeditions.com
Enjoy!!
Lost Josephine Mine/Hoyt Peak - Scranton and the Buckhorn
- Thread starter e28bimmer
- Start date
scoutabout
None
Great pics!
Brad J
Registered User
- Location
- Woods Cross, UT
My Brother & I enjoyed exploring the mine up Mona Pole Trail back in July w/ TeraFlex. Its sad that these are getting closed off forever
Keep up the good work
Keep up the good work
Marshall
Was That a U-Joint?
- Location
- Farmington, UT
I am disgusted that the Forest Service can destroy an area like that and drive away smiling and knocking trees over, and yet we put one tire out of line and our trails are in danger of being closed. Good work, this is the type of thing everyone needs to see. F*** the forest service, and the bulldozers they rolled in on.
TigerStripe40
Arrogant Bastard
- Location
- Salt Lake City
I was up on Hoyts Peak to go into Glory Hole cave (the natural cave higher up) when the Forest Service was backfilling the Josephine.
The story they told me was that the claim holders partner had screwed him, and he wasn't interested in working the claim any longer.
They also told me that there had been a number of accidents involving snow mobilers falling off the cliff above the mine, and that there was pressure on the forest service to do something about it.
The story they told me was that the claim holders partner had screwed him, and he wasn't interested in working the claim any longer.
They also told me that there had been a number of accidents involving snow mobilers falling off the cliff above the mine, and that there was pressure on the forest service to do something about it.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
TigerStripe40 said:
I told him about your trip James... so now you have met eachother
James meet Corey, Corey meet James
TigerStripe40
Arrogant Bastard
- Location
- Salt Lake City
Personally, I don't find mines to be all that interesting, especially when compared to caves.
But here is something you mine explorers may find interesting:
http://www.topozone.com/states/Utah.asp?feature=Mine
It's a listing of mines in Utah, with GPS coordinates, and the topo maps, topo map names, etc.
Enjoy
But here is something you mine explorers may find interesting:
http://www.topozone.com/states/Utah.asp?feature=Mine
It's a listing of mines in Utah, with GPS coordinates, and the topo maps, topo map names, etc.
Enjoy
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
TigerStripe40 said:
Mines have something caves don't... and thats deep, rich history. Sure caves were discovered, mapped, yadda yadda yadda... but they wern't the center of lives, men didn't spend 365 years slaving away miles inside the mountain. Mules didn't spend 24 hours a day lugging ore. Boom towns didn't appear next to caves, nor did brothels and saloons.
And too me caves are just musty old holes...
PS... I still want to formally go caving at least once before I pass too much judgement about you elitist cavers
TigerStripe40
Arrogant Bastard
- Location
- Salt Lake City
cruiseroutfit said:PS... I still want to formally go caving at least once before I pass too much judgement about you elitist cavers
I've offered many times.
And the offer is still open.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
TigerStripe40 said:
I know, I know... so many things to do... so little time. One of these times I'm going to be able to make it, headlamp and all...
waynehartwig
www.jeeperman.com
- Location
- Mead, WA
Cool story! I really like this type of history; it's very fascinating to me. It's really unfortunate that those who don't care about it, won't just leave it alone for others that want to appreciate it. Someone always has to f something up for others.
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
At what point does an old mine become "historic" and should be forever repserved vs an abondoned mine that should be reclaimed?
One of the biggest selling points to new mining is that it will be reclaimed (correct, I think) but if it is ignored long enough is it okay not to?
Just a thought. The old history is cool I agree, but what about the safety and environmental impacts?
One of the biggest selling points to new mining is that it will be reclaimed (correct, I think) but if it is ignored long enough is it okay not to?
Just a thought. The old history is cool I agree, but what about the safety and environmental impacts?
TigerStripe40
Arrogant Bastard
- Location
- Salt Lake City
cruiseroutfit said:And too me caves are just musty old holes...
PS... I still want to formally go caving at least once before I pass too much judgement about you elitist cavers
Musty Old Holes eh?
Last edited:
James-- nice to meet you, and thanks for the info...
Quick point to note, the glory hole isnt a natural cave, its a vent hole for the rest of the Josephine mine, there used to be another entrance just a little lower on hoyts, in the Aspen grove just north east of the glory hole. It was called the bear hole. Why does it look like it does? Because its so old, The Josephine was worked, according to Spanish Waybills from about 1320AD, until they were forced to abandon due to hostile indians in the late 1400s. At which point the doors inside were put up, and the entrances sealed. I know the forest service guys said you mapped it, Im curious to how your maps line up with the original maps from the 1970s when the bear hole was discovered by Gale Rhoades. June, Steve and Gale mapped it all out and the maps are in a book called "of men and gold" by steve shaffer. I should be able to get a copy of the map and I can post it here. The bear hole was closed and abandoned due to instabilities and the accessibility of the Glory Hole, plus, Gale, June and Steve were working on opening the front entrance. The front mine site is where Gale Rhoades died of a heart attack, June raced him to the hospital leaving all of his and Gales paperwork and research at the site with Steve. Somehow, these papers were "stolen" right from underneath Steves nose, but strangely enough, Steve came out with two books about the Josephine within a few years of this event.
Anyway, as to the Glory hole, Im going from memory, but if you take the second bend westward inside, there is a bunch of crumbed, unstable rock, that looks like its filled in a cavern, thats because it has, if you belly crawl back there (seems like it was about 40 ft.) you will come to a spot where it opens up just a little, on the southwest wall, feel around, you might have to move some rock, but you can see and feel the top of the door, its about 10-15inches thick. This is where, in another fit of genius, John Young decided to place a small charge to open it up, on the way out, he noted the brick work done on the North wall, it seemed very neat and tidy, but loose, he took a few bricks out to look for markings of who made them, did the blast, and the result is what you see in that adit now. As to the bricks, they were solid Spanish tax stamped silver bars. stacked outside the door as the silver wasnt worth as much as the gold that was secured inside the doors. Maybe we can meet up there sometime before the road is closed and swap info.
Quick point to note, the glory hole isnt a natural cave, its a vent hole for the rest of the Josephine mine, there used to be another entrance just a little lower on hoyts, in the Aspen grove just north east of the glory hole. It was called the bear hole. Why does it look like it does? Because its so old, The Josephine was worked, according to Spanish Waybills from about 1320AD, until they were forced to abandon due to hostile indians in the late 1400s. At which point the doors inside were put up, and the entrances sealed. I know the forest service guys said you mapped it, Im curious to how your maps line up with the original maps from the 1970s when the bear hole was discovered by Gale Rhoades. June, Steve and Gale mapped it all out and the maps are in a book called "of men and gold" by steve shaffer. I should be able to get a copy of the map and I can post it here. The bear hole was closed and abandoned due to instabilities and the accessibility of the Glory Hole, plus, Gale, June and Steve were working on opening the front entrance. The front mine site is where Gale Rhoades died of a heart attack, June raced him to the hospital leaving all of his and Gales paperwork and research at the site with Steve. Somehow, these papers were "stolen" right from underneath Steves nose, but strangely enough, Steve came out with two books about the Josephine within a few years of this event.
Anyway, as to the Glory hole, Im going from memory, but if you take the second bend westward inside, there is a bunch of crumbed, unstable rock, that looks like its filled in a cavern, thats because it has, if you belly crawl back there (seems like it was about 40 ft.) you will come to a spot where it opens up just a little, on the southwest wall, feel around, you might have to move some rock, but you can see and feel the top of the door, its about 10-15inches thick. This is where, in another fit of genius, John Young decided to place a small charge to open it up, on the way out, he noted the brick work done on the North wall, it seemed very neat and tidy, but loose, he took a few bricks out to look for markings of who made them, did the blast, and the result is what you see in that adit now. As to the bricks, they were solid Spanish tax stamped silver bars. stacked outside the door as the silver wasnt worth as much as the gold that was secured inside the doors. Maybe we can meet up there sometime before the road is closed and swap info.
Houndoc-- I posted this on Utah offroad too, but I'll add this. The antiquities act makes it a crime for you (or any other memeber) of the public, to pick up or move any item 50 years or older that is man-made or of historical signifigance. Its a huge fine and potential jail time as well. So how is it that they can go in, and destroy something that meets thier own definition of antiquity. What do you think should be done with Kennecott when it finally dies out, reclaim it, cover it up and pretend it never existed. Or mark it as a peice of our history that will never happen again and be prooud that you were a part of that era?
as I understand it the coin was dated 156, with an image of a roman emperor on it, dont remeber who. It was the uofu who dated it at 56bc, dont know how or why.
As to the restore bit, well, its a bit overused, right now, all that the reclamation bonds do is make it nigh impossible for the average person to be able to place and go work a claim on his own.
Its wrong to "restore" because it is historical, there is a value there, and what is (was) there, will never be done again. Mines arent dug by hand anymore, its all machine, large operation, strip mine stuff. Even the modern uranium mines are all bulk operations. Reclaiming these old mines is much the same (at least to me) as leveling off any other historic site. Take the 911 site, is there any reason that a memorial should be there? Its just a peice of ground, and an expensive peice at that. How about Indian sites, those should all be wiped out as well, blow the kivas and graneries off the walls because they arent natural?
The mines are history, and an integral link to our past that we still all have access to. There are also very few states where you can go out to these sites and still see a mine, feel the air out of it and enjoy the history.
as I understand it the coin was dated 156, with an image of a roman emperor on it, dont remeber who. It was the uofu who dated it at 56bc, dont know how or why.
As to the restore bit, well, its a bit overused, right now, all that the reclamation bonds do is make it nigh impossible for the average person to be able to place and go work a claim on his own.
Its wrong to "restore" because it is historical, there is a value there, and what is (was) there, will never be done again. Mines arent dug by hand anymore, its all machine, large operation, strip mine stuff. Even the modern uranium mines are all bulk operations. Reclaiming these old mines is much the same (at least to me) as leveling off any other historic site. Take the 911 site, is there any reason that a memorial should be there? Its just a peice of ground, and an expensive peice at that. How about Indian sites, those should all be wiped out as well, blow the kivas and graneries off the walls because they arent natural?
The mines are history, and an integral link to our past that we still all have access to. There are also very few states where you can go out to these sites and still see a mine, feel the air out of it and enjoy the history.
TigerStripe40 said:
Sorry I missed replying to this before.
The claim holder has no partners, the only screwing that went on was from the forest service. I called and spoke to "John" at length and Cathy and Tom from the FS, who stated the reason as "he hasnt produced any ore". An item of note to that would be that last night when we were meeting with the OGM about the MK tunnels. The BLM and the Mark M. both stated that there is no requesite for any ore to be produced, ever. As long as you pay, you can play, and it was paid. "John" is still holding the claim and told me, and the FS, that he will hold it till he dies, then pass it on to his family. and he will also continue to try and work it.
Last but not least, take a look at county records, in the past 7 years, (which was all I could find) there are no records of any injuries or accidents in the hoyt peak area. There are a few down in Samak. But thats as close as it gets.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Good research Corey