crawldaddy
Active Member
- Location
- Logan
Man all this talk about Providence and the above freezing temps has me all excited to go wheeling. My favorite time is snow drift bashing in the spring.
Mount Logan (Logan Peak)
- Thread starter Yellow89YJ
- Start date
- Location
- Smithfield Utah
I wish more people thought it sucked to live here! Its getting too populated up here lately 
YellowYJ, Most people are tight lipped on public forums because it doesn't take much to loose what few trails we have left--especially winter access trails. I love meeting and wheeling with new people as much as the next guy but to advertise what few winter trails we have left openly is just asking for trouble :-\
YellowYJ, Most people are tight lipped on public forums because it doesn't take much to loose what few trails we have left--especially winter access trails. I love meeting and wheeling with new people as much as the next guy but to advertise what few winter trails we have left openly is just asking for trouble :-\
Toad
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Millville(logan)
RotBox shot me a pm on some winter wheeling trails open around here.
logansportage
Registered User
- Location
- Logan, Utah
I agree, there are a lot of trails here in Cache Valley that are great. There are very few that are extreme like Prov, but then again once the snow melts you see a lot more that you never knew were there. Remember we are in a mountain valley and having said that most of the trails will not be opened until Memorial Day. Most access points are gated until then.
Another thing that needs to be understood is a lot of ground in Cache Valley is private land. People have it locked up and unless you know the right person you can't get access to it.
Back to the road to Logan Peak. I know they changed it a while back just above White Bed. They took out the straight sections that went through the lower rock garden and put in a number of switch backs as well as berms to redirect the water runoff. But are you saying they changed it again just below the warming hut/upper rodeo grounds? Before you had to go right to the warming hut and then turn right.
Logansportage
Another thing that needs to be understood is a lot of ground in Cache Valley is private land. People have it locked up and unless you know the right person you can't get access to it.
Back to the road to Logan Peak. I know they changed it a while back just above White Bed. They took out the straight sections that went through the lower rock garden and put in a number of switch backs as well as berms to redirect the water runoff. But are you saying they changed it again just below the warming hut/upper rodeo grounds? Before you had to go right to the warming hut and then turn right.
Logansportage
Toad
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Millville(logan)
It is all gone. The old road they filled in with dirt and laid trees across the entired thing. The new road crosses over the old road in several places. No more rodeo grounds. The road is realy wide and a very easy gradual climb to the top.
logansportage
Registered User
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Well then. Guess we'll have to put some big old ruts in that road to make it at least a little bit challenging. Nothing a set of fast moving fishtailing 35" TSL can't help with after a good rain storm. "Sorry ranger, this road was just to nice too pass up. Bummer it has no rocks in it to keep the water from running straight down it. I helped ya though. I put some nice channels in it for the water to run down instead."
Toad
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Millville(logan)
It only takes a few years for these roads to get chewed up anways so why do they bother cutting new roads. I can understand scraping the existing roads for service vehicles. But why a new road?
logansportage
Registered User
- Location
- Logan, Utah
I agree. Not only 4WD drive people use these roads. There are a lot of ATV riders who use these roads too and if you can drive your car on them, why ride?
Logansportage
Logansportage
SportSawyer
Member
- Location
- Northern Utah
Because the communications site power cable is buried under the old road location, and it was getting exposed. In recent years, exposed portions of the power cable were occasionally painted flame orange to mark them. You may have seen it, but not realized what it was. It was considered to be a safety hazard, and the FS felt it might be best to do something before somebody got electrocuted.
They had public meetings, comment periods, and so on for the project. It was announced in various places.
FWIW, full-sized 4WD users could have also lost the spur to Inspiration Point had some folks not pushed to reconnect it as a road rather than an ATV trail (as was initially planned).
If you want to know more, read the Record of Decision.
You can view other documents & the FEIS by going to Forest Final Decisions and Related Publications and scrolling down to "Millville Peak/Logan Peak Road Relocation Project" under the Logan Ranger District.
Oh... and nobody's scoring any positive points by suggesting tearing the crap out of the new road. Be aware that OHV forums are routinely viewed by agency personnel and environmentalists.
Toad
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Millville(logan)
Guess that is why.
logansportage
Registered User
- Location
- Logan, Utah
This is my land too and it pisses me off when people say they try to get the word out about changing things. That’s a bunch of BS and a copout. Just because it may have been posted on a website doesn’t mean that the public has been informed in my opinion. Usually things like this get posted to some inconspicuous location that is hard to find and only the people who put it there or are affiliated with the organization know where to find it.
I hope agency personnel are viewing this post so they understand they need to do a better job of informing the public. If only a small handful of people show up to a public form that you know is going to make a large impact than you know you haven't done a good enough job of informing the public.
As far as environmentalists viewing this post they’ll see we are passionate about having places to enjoy our recreation and the more they remove the more we get upset until we reach a point where we start fighting back instead of being so passive.
I’ve been an avid hunter for my entire life and when I attended my first meeting in Utah about new regulations I understood why things are so screwed up. Only very specific people showed and I was just about ushered from the room just because I showed up. Nothing like an open to the public meeting that has a closed door because you don’t know the right people, have the right amount of money, or fell that our resources are for everybody not just those who have figured out a way to profit from it.
Don’t get me wrong I love Utah, but it really pisses me off when things just change out of the blue with no real heads up that it’s going to be changed. I think a sign at the trail head about the proposed changes would have helped get the word out even better.
Sorry for the rant, that trail is/was one of my favorite trails.
Logansportage
I hope agency personnel are viewing this post so they understand they need to do a better job of informing the public. If only a small handful of people show up to a public form that you know is going to make a large impact than you know you haven't done a good enough job of informing the public.
As far as environmentalists viewing this post they’ll see we are passionate about having places to enjoy our recreation and the more they remove the more we get upset until we reach a point where we start fighting back instead of being so passive.
I’ve been an avid hunter for my entire life and when I attended my first meeting in Utah about new regulations I understood why things are so screwed up. Only very specific people showed and I was just about ushered from the room just because I showed up. Nothing like an open to the public meeting that has a closed door because you don’t know the right people, have the right amount of money, or fell that our resources are for everybody not just those who have figured out a way to profit from it.
Don’t get me wrong I love Utah, but it really pisses me off when things just change out of the blue with no real heads up that it’s going to be changed. I think a sign at the trail head about the proposed changes would have helped get the word out even better.
Sorry for the rant, that trail is/was one of my favorite trails.
Logansportage
TkMeHomePlease
Active Member
- Location
- Logan, UT
Ha HA thats funny i didnt know that there were so many people up by logan. In fact i been going u[ prov canyon almost every weekend we been sledding its been fun. I go past the quarry though even though the snowmobilers give me looks its been good fun. I went up this last weekend and the snow was way soft and dug most the way up. I havent been past that huge hill to the right , right off the road thats where we go to go sleddin.
Let me know you want to go sometime we can go .
Let me know you want to go sometime we can go .
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Yeah, umm unfortunately that is not how it works of Forest Service lands. There are state right-of-way statutes that protect access in cases of established use, they generally do not apply to Forest lands unless the road pre-dates the establishment of the forest, which in the case of Prov Canyon and Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest is not true. Above and beyond that county's have to assert RS2477 and state statute rights, not citizens and surely not rogue citizens that decide the answer is to pull out carsonite that was very possibly put there by a fellow group of 4x4 enthusiasts working with the Forest Service to preserve access. The forest service has an entirely different mission than other federal lands and thus you won't see our Counties entangling in legal battles to restore any of the lost routes on forest lands, BLM is a different story. So like it or hate it, we have to deal with it. I can name a route for every day of the year that has been closed on FS lands in the last 10 years, in 95% of the cases there is zero legal recourse. So you can choose to enforce non-applicable laws on FS or your can work with the FS to reduce future closures, you decide.
I do find it interesting you think 'maintaining' protects access yet when the FS maintains to the road to their definition you call them out on it. Having sat down with forest road planners in the past you have to see things from their point of view, 95% of user including many in the OHV community prefer a smooth road to get somewhere, begging counties and districts to continue the maintenance and blading on routes. There are federal engineering standards for the roads, erosion, soil compaction, etc. Go read why Telico was shut down, too much erosion making its way into the water and killing fish. While it would be fine and dandy to say leave them as they are, you've got more vocal and more powerful groups within our own community often asking for them to be better maintained and accessible to the average user. Do I wish many of our forest routes were left as they were in the past, absolutely. But I would rather have an open smooth road then a closed challenging route. One does me more good than the other
Well, "usually" doesn't apply to this case. It was well known withing the 4x4 community, I know Northern Utah clubs, the U4WDA and several 4x4 forums discussed the powerline issue and the re-route of the trail. If people didn't see it, they ignored it: http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?t=46411
Are you a member of a local 4x4 club? The state 4WD association? Ever gone to a Forest Service or BLM scoping meeting? Public comment hearing? How about any of the many service projects that 4x4 clubs have done in the Mt. Logan area, ever been to one of those service projects?
If we sit back and wait for land managers to drop trails in our laps, they will be gone by 2015. Users need to be proactive on their own. Join clubs, join state associations, get on advocacy mailing lists, attend scoping and comment meetings, watch FS & BLM websites for updates. Ask for maps at the local BLM/FS offices. Watch wilderness proposals, watch proposals from the oil/gas/mining industry. Be proactive not reactive.
Our users and this very website (RME) have helped build re-routes in very similar situations. Example, in AF Canyon we build a new route around a seasonal mud bog that I'm sure you would have loved to rut up with your TSL's
We worked with the Forest Service to re-route that segment on the Forest Lake Trail in order to keep vehicles out of a bog each spring. The fence would get torn down and the bog ripped up. The new route (boring by all definitions I'm sure) is a much more ethical way to pass through the area and appease many segments of users, potentially keeping the trail open for that much longer. Obviously your results may vary.
logansportage
Registered User
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Kurt,
Well, I can’t say for certain, but I believe the trail up Prov canyon and the trail to Logan Peak were there a long time before the area was turned into a national forest. The trail may have been different back then, but I’m pretty sure it was there. It was used by settlers of Cache Valley to pull stones out of the mountains for buildings in Logan.
I understand that the Forest Service has a different mission than other federal lends, but just because they do it doesn’t mean that’s what should have been done. If the Forest Service closes access to all forests it makes their job easy. However, that’s not what their job is for. Their job is for making the best use of the forest and also making it usable by all who want to use it. It’s a balancing act I know, and it takes people getting on both sides to make it work. Yes, not everybody is going to like the decision that will work for most of the group. But, I don’t think just the ones who scream the loudest should be the majority voice. I think you should look at the whole group and not just the ones who are screaming the loudest.
I understand getting involved is what is required to help our cause. However, like most 4x4 enthusiasts we spend the majority of our time doing other things because we have to and cannot spend as much time on the things we enjoy as we would like. That’s why we are called enthusiasts and not professionals. I take my hat off to the people who are the professionals who are fighting for our cause.
Yes, my definition of maintaining is different than the Forest Service’s definition. Maintaining is keeping up what is already there. Not changing or replacing. Re-routing a road is not maintaining. It’s changing. Maintaining it would be grading or fixing the road in its current position. It’s like the ever being maintained roads we have in Utah. You get a pot hole in it, you fill the pot hole. If the pot hole keeps coming back you look for better ways to fix the pot hole so it doesn’t come back. You don’t re-route the road around the pot hole.
I to enjoy a smoother road to get somewhere, but when that somewhere is a trail I expect it to be a trail and not a paved road. The name is the Mt. Logan trail. Not the Mt. Logan high way. We go to these places to enjoy because most people don’t want to go there because it’s too rough. If you make it easy for everybody to go there, where are those of us going to go to get away from the city folk.
Well if several forms and clubs discussed the power line issue I never saw or heard about it. I guess I must have ignored it. Not like me to ignore something that is going to impact a hobby I enjoy though. I must have driven that trail more than 50 times that summer and never once did I hear anything about it or see anything about it until just recently after it’s been done.
Unfortunately there are not many clubs up here anymore. Too many hoops to jump through and too much time involved in the politics that you never get time to enjoy what you joined the club for. As far as going to a Forest Service or BLM scoping meeting, you get the same reaction there as I mentioned earlier. You get the look of “Why are you here, you don’t belong here.”
I’ve spent plenty of time helping build/improve routes and I’m one of the first people to try to correct something that’s wrong when I see it. I pick up the trash other people left because I think others need to enjoy the area too and if we don’t take care of it it’s going to get closed because someone else decided this area is being over used and should be closed.
Enough of my rant. It’s late and I need to go wheeling to release some tension. Sorry all.
Logansportage
Well, I can’t say for certain, but I believe the trail up Prov canyon and the trail to Logan Peak were there a long time before the area was turned into a national forest. The trail may have been different back then, but I’m pretty sure it was there. It was used by settlers of Cache Valley to pull stones out of the mountains for buildings in Logan.
I understand that the Forest Service has a different mission than other federal lends, but just because they do it doesn’t mean that’s what should have been done. If the Forest Service closes access to all forests it makes their job easy. However, that’s not what their job is for. Their job is for making the best use of the forest and also making it usable by all who want to use it. It’s a balancing act I know, and it takes people getting on both sides to make it work. Yes, not everybody is going to like the decision that will work for most of the group. But, I don’t think just the ones who scream the loudest should be the majority voice. I think you should look at the whole group and not just the ones who are screaming the loudest.
I understand getting involved is what is required to help our cause. However, like most 4x4 enthusiasts we spend the majority of our time doing other things because we have to and cannot spend as much time on the things we enjoy as we would like. That’s why we are called enthusiasts and not professionals. I take my hat off to the people who are the professionals who are fighting for our cause.
Yes, my definition of maintaining is different than the Forest Service’s definition. Maintaining is keeping up what is already there. Not changing or replacing. Re-routing a road is not maintaining. It’s changing. Maintaining it would be grading or fixing the road in its current position. It’s like the ever being maintained roads we have in Utah. You get a pot hole in it, you fill the pot hole. If the pot hole keeps coming back you look for better ways to fix the pot hole so it doesn’t come back. You don’t re-route the road around the pot hole.
I to enjoy a smoother road to get somewhere, but when that somewhere is a trail I expect it to be a trail and not a paved road. The name is the Mt. Logan trail. Not the Mt. Logan high way. We go to these places to enjoy because most people don’t want to go there because it’s too rough. If you make it easy for everybody to go there, where are those of us going to go to get away from the city folk.
Well if several forms and clubs discussed the power line issue I never saw or heard about it. I guess I must have ignored it. Not like me to ignore something that is going to impact a hobby I enjoy though. I must have driven that trail more than 50 times that summer and never once did I hear anything about it or see anything about it until just recently after it’s been done.
Unfortunately there are not many clubs up here anymore. Too many hoops to jump through and too much time involved in the politics that you never get time to enjoy what you joined the club for. As far as going to a Forest Service or BLM scoping meeting, you get the same reaction there as I mentioned earlier. You get the look of “Why are you here, you don’t belong here.”
I’ve spent plenty of time helping build/improve routes and I’m one of the first people to try to correct something that’s wrong when I see it. I pick up the trash other people left because I think others need to enjoy the area too and if we don’t take care of it it’s going to get closed because someone else decided this area is being over used and should be closed.
Enough of my rant. It’s late and I need to go wheeling to release some tension. Sorry all.
Logansportage