Need Expedition planning/estimating help...

[kevowheeler]

I'm working on a proposal to lead a 4WD Expedition in so. Utah next spring w/ about 10 guys. I need help in the planning and $$ estimating phase. These guys will be renting Jeeps, which will add significantly to the overall trip price, and I'm trying to keep it under $700 per person (that's even stretching it because they still have to buy their airplane tickets to get here).

Please contact me if you're experienced with leading groups into the backcountry. I'll need your equipment lists - esp. regarding a large camp kitchen. Also, how many camp-hands should I have on hand to ease the workload?

[side note: any 4Wheelin' EMT's out there? I'll need to have a first responder for Wilderness First Aid with our group. Contact me.]

Anyway, please give me some input - because I don't want to over-price it, and I do need to have all my expenses covered & of course make a %.

~ thanks for any input ~

 

[I Lean]

Good question that I can't help you with. You might want to also check over on expeditionutah.com though....

 

[Cody]

Shouldn't you already know how this process works if you're going into business as a backcountry 4x4 guide?

You just need to start planning. Create an itinerary, find practical source for jeep rentals, estimate mileage and fuel costs, come up with a practical food plan for 10 people (a big pot o' stew can feed that many easy--as well as plenty of other easy meals), get some estimates on food and then add it all up and divide by number of people.

Camp hands? huh? You want to hire help for a camp of 10 people?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Let me get this right, you want an experienced person to basically plan this trip for you, so you can make the money. LOL This is the type of thing you do under the supervision of a professional for several years before you start dragging others into the outdoors under your wings IMO. I've lead trails and extended trips for hundreds and hundreds of participants and I still wouldn't feel comfortable taking out a group that will be flying in and renting Jeeps.

Guiding is 10% about your knowledge of the area and vehicles and 90% about people skills, leadership and problem solving IMO. Don't get me wrong the 10% includes very important aspects like route planning, a detailed itinerary, emergency and egress plans, permits and insurance which are legally required for any and all commercial ventures on public lands. You might try calling some of the "gods of guides" ie Frenchie, Dan Mick, Bill Burke, Scott Brady, etc. While I doubt they have the time nor are willing to give away their "secrets of the trade" and plan the trip for you, they might be willing to toss you some pointers about professional guide work. Beyond that they may be willing to charge you a "consultation fee" to help plan your trip.

The budget IMO is the easiest part. Vehicles, fuel, food, equipment, permits, campground fees, etc divided by the number of paying participants. Planning easy to prepare meals, arranging campsites for a large group, alternate plans in case of impassible trail, etc are the harder ones.

Here are sample itinerary's I've used in the past (4-5 day trips to the SR Swell trip, Beef Basin/Elephant/Lockhart, Newfie Mtns, Ouray, etc). Some (my wife ) accuse me of being anal about my planning given the fact I'm not taking out paid clients, I'm taking out customers and freinds. However I beleive the old adage "Fail to Prepare, Prepare to Fail" is worth a thousand dollars in a situation like this. Be prepared to "pre-run" the area you plan to visit, spend time on the phone with land managers to check the latest conditions of the routes, etc.

 

[Herzog]

Also, to add to the can of worms... If you are going to present yourself here on RME as a Expedition Guide service in any shape or form of a business, you need to get a vendor gear.

More information here: http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/supporter.php

Thanks.

 

[burke]

I would plan on atleast 80bucks in canned chili for the event. I prefer Nalley's. Maybe you could open this up to some local traffic...let me know where i can register.

 

[RockMonkey]

Have you checked the price of airline tickets? There's no way you can do this for $700 each.

 

[kevowheeler]

I didn't ask for smart alecky remarks!

I've already led groups - just asking for input from you blokes. (Guess that was a mistake!)

And YES - I know about estimating gas, vehicle rentals and stuff. I've done it before with smaller groups (backpacking trips, hiking, biking, and Jeep trips).

And no, the airline tickets won't be included in the $700! You didn't read my post!

Never mind, unfriendly wheelers. But thanks for the few tips you gave.

And yes, I'm familiar with camping in groups - and it can be a lot of work when you're covering a lot of terrain in just a few days.

See ya on the trail, mates!

 

[kevowheeler]

Also, to add to the can of worms... If you are going to present yourself here on RME as a Expedition Guide service in any shape or form of a business, you need to get a vendor gear.

More information here: http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/supporter.php

Thanks.

Sounds reasonable.

 

[mbryson]

I didn't ask for smart alecky remarks!

I've already led groups - just asking for input from you blokes. (Guess that was a mistake!)

And YES - I know about estimating gas, vehicle rentals and stuff. I've done it before with smaller groups (backpacking trips, hiking, biking, and Jeep trips).

And no, the airline tickets won't be included in the $700! You didn't read my post!

Never mind, unfriendly wheelers. But thanks for the few tips you gave.

And yes, I'm familiar with camping in groups - and it can be a lot of work when you're covering a lot of terrain in just a few days.

See ya on the trail, mates!

Not to be an @ss, (OK, so I am)....but what does the following mean, then?

...... These guys will be renting Jeeps, which will add significantly to the overall trip price, and I'm trying to keep it under $700 per person (that's even stretching it because they still have to buy their airplane tickets to get here).......

 

[RockMonkey]

I wasn't being an ass, I was just trying to give my opinion that you were drastically under-estimating your costs. This part in YOUR post "I'm trying to keep it under $700 per person (that's even stretching it because they still have to buy their airplane tickets to get here)" tells me that you are trying to get this trip done for $700 including all costs, airline tickets, and profit. Maybe YOU didn't read YOUR post.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

And YES - I know about estimating gas, vehicle rentals and stuff. I've done it before with smaller groups (backpacking trips, hiking, biking, and Jeep

And yes, I'm familiar with camping in groups - and it can be a lot of work when you're covering a lot of terrain in just a few days.

OK?

Then with all due respect, what is it you needed our help on? Sounds like you have it all ironed out. I would get your numbers, get commitment from your customers and file for a permit and insurance.

 

[scoutabout]

Let me get this right, you want an experienced person to basically plan this trip for you, so you can make the money.

Hire cruiseroutfit to prepare and lead the trip for you. I think he will work for a discount rate of $1000/day, and this is a good price for the experience and expertise. That will screw up the $700/person budget, but you get what you pay for. He is almost as awesome as Dan Mick.

Or maybe bunkerdave can do the route planning:

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=57071&highlight=rolled+jeep

Also, to add to the can of worms... If you are going to present yourself here on RME as a Expedition Guide service in any shape or form of a business, you need to get a vendor gear.

More information here: http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/supporter.php

Thanks.

When he gets someone to work out the trip details and business plan, I'm sure a vendor membership at RME will be in the marketing budget.

I wasn't being an ass, I was just trying to give my opinion that you were drastically under-estimating your costs. This part in YOUR post "I'm trying to keep it under $700 per person (that's even stretching it because they still have to buy their airplane tickets to get here)" tells me that you are trying to get this trip done for $700 including all costs, airline tickets, and profit. Maybe YOU didn't read YOUR post.

I interpreted it to read that the budget was $700 per person for the wheeling/camping without airfare included which is why he was trying to keep the cost down since "they still had to buy their airplane tickets to get here." I read it that way, other's mileage may vary.

I'm working on a proposal to lead a 4WD Expedition in so. Utah next spring w/ about 10 guys. I need help in the planning and $$ estimating phase. These guys will be renting Jeeps, which will add significantly to the overall trip price, and I'm trying to keep it under $700 per person (that's even stretching it because they still have to buy their airplane tickets to get here).

Please contact me if you're experienced with leading groups into the backcountry. I'll need your equipment lists - esp. regarding a large camp kitchen. Also, how many camp-hands should I have on hand to ease the workload?

[side note: any 4Wheelin' EMT's out there? I'll need to have a first responder for Wilderness First Aid with our group. Contact me.]

Anyway, please give me some input - because I don't want to over-price it, and I do need to have all my expenses covered & of course make a %.

~ thanks for any input ~

Oh, now I see that you're trying to make a profit. I was still reading and posting under the assumption that you might just be planning a trip for some friends or family visiting Utah. Good luck with your commercial guiding venture.

 

[cannoncrawler]

I love a good backfire! lol

 

[SAMI]

Hire cruiseroutfit to prepare and lead the trip for you. I think he will work for a discount rate of $1000/day, and this is a good price for the experience and expertise. That will screw up the $700/person budget, but you get what you pay for. He is almost as awesome as Dan Mick.

Or maybe bunkerdave can do the route planning:

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=57071&highlight=rolled+jeep

That made my day!

 

[Kris K]

Good question that I can't help you with. You might want to also check over on expeditionutah.com though....

Tried joining this, but everything still say's private. Dose a mod have to approve me first for me to see the threads?

 

[Cody]

I didn't ask for smart alecky remarks!

I've already led groups - just asking for input from you blokes. (Guess that was a mistake!)

And YES - I know about estimating gas, vehicle rentals and stuff. I've done it before with smaller groups (backpacking trips, hiking, biking, and Jeep trips).

And no, the airline tickets won't be included in the $700! You didn't read my post!

Never mind, unfriendly wheelers. But thanks for the few tips you gave.

And yes, I'm familiar with camping in groups - and it can be a lot of work when you're covering a lot of terrain in just a few days.

See ya on the trail, mates!

If you have it all figured out, then what was the point of your post?

You seem like a super accountable, prepared, and down right nice guy. Can I please spend some time with you on the trail? lol

 

[Caleb]

Tried joining this, but everything still say's private. Dose a mod have to approve me first for me to see the threads?

yes

 

[Stephen]

Oh come on guys, he's just trying to make a buck! It's not like he's asking us to do all the planning so he can charge his rich eastern clients top dollar. If you ask him really nice like, he might just let you be one of the camp hands for $4.15/hour!
What a git!

 

[kevowheeler]

Lol!

You guys have me cracking up. But this is fun.

Let me clarify what I meant earlier. Just asking for your methods that make life easier on the trail when catering to a group of 10 guys. That's the one variable in this for me. I like the $80 Nalley's. That cracked me up. I'll just have to give it a GO and not worry about it.

I appreciate that some of you see that I'm already trying to FIT a high-priced trip into an low-budget. Okay, so that's a challenge.

I won't show you my math yet, but I think it's gonna fly because I'll be using 4 DOOR Rubicons that can handle the cheery passengers in a delightful way for transporting them through the sunny climes of southern UTAH! I guess we could fit everyone in just a few 2 door Jeeps (to save $$ on the rentals) and I'll carry ALL the camping gear in my truck ('92XCabV6). I'm thinking, though, that the 4 drs. will be just what these travelers will LOVE!

Just trying to be clear with my language so you guys are with me on this.

I'm sure I'll just have to keep doing all the footwork.

BTW -Fully catered 4WD camping is also a KEY part of this whole expedition into various CANYONS & cliffs, on roads, trails and sometimes nothin' but ROCK! . Fully catered just means that to make it work cohesively I'll need 1 - 3 assistants. Cheers.

There: hope that clarifies it a little.

I know what I said may have been mis-read, and thanks for the questions regarding the airplance tickets and all that. No worries, mates - I think I can figure this thing out and get better at it.

Love and Peace to everyone.