New bag, WM Megalite or Zpacks? Fear based decision?

[DAA]

So, I'm buying a sleeping bag within the next couple of months. Current BP bag is a Feathered Friends Swift, rated for 20*, weighs 33 oz. in stuff sack. Awesome bag, but just a bit too warm most of the time. So, going to shave ounces off my pack with a lighter, less warm sleeping bag.

The two I've narrowed it down to - although I'm still open to other suggestions - are the Western Mountaineering Megalite and the Zpacks 30* long-wide bag.

Brief specs are, both rated 30*. The WM has 12 oz. of fill and weighs 24 oz. The Zpacks has 10 oz. of fill and weighs 17 oz.

Note - I've never actually held either in my own hands or seen with my own eyes. Online pics and desriptions are all I have to go by.

So here is where I'm agonizing... The Zpacks bag, at 7 oz. lighter than the WM, is tremendously tempting. I mean, 7 oz. is a HUGE difference. It would cut a full pound off my base weight - that's BIG. Zpacks has a stellar reputation in general. I own some of their cuben dry bags and also have their WPB cuben rain jacket which is an incredible piece of ultralight gear.

All that said... There does not seem to be a whole lot of people sharing experience with their sleeping bags and most of the ones who are, have a very strong ultralight ethic that I only partially share, so I'm not sure most of them are really speaking my language.

The Zpacks bag is very "non traditional", with the zipper on the bottom, no hood, designed to leave your head out and all. I like saving weight, but am very "comfort oriented" in my approach to backpacking. I just have a fear - not necesarrily justified or rational - that I would not be as comfortable or sleep as well in the Zpacks bag as the WM bag.

The Megalite, by contrast, is one of the most universally loved backpacking bags out there. Tons of online reviews and discussions with users from all over the spectrum. I feel quite certain that I'd sleep very well in the Megalite. But, at the cost of an additional 7 oz., which, is a big friggin' deal...

To sum it up - I am VERY tempted by the weight savings of the Zpacks bag. But concerned about actual sleeping comfort compared to the more traditional WM bag.

I have heard that fear drives up pack weight unecessarily. That we carry more than we really need to, simply because we are afraid of what "might" happen if we don't. I'm trying not to make a fear based decision here that will add an extra 7 oz. to my pack that doesn't really need to be there.

But, given my comfort driven approach, maybe that 7 oz. actually should be there, for me?

What do y'all think? I welcome all thoughts and opinions here.

And if you actually own or have been around this equipment, speak up! Anything you can share about it. Fact, opinion, good or bad. I am of course particularly interested in actual weights - as opposed to the listed weights.

Oh and quilts... I know, I know... I freely admit that I am letting fear guide me away from a quilt. I know all the logical advantages. I am just "afraid" (and admit it), that "I" would not sleep well or comfortably in one, compared to a traditional sleeping bag. And I highly value a good nights sleep. Davy has kindly offered to let me borrow a quilt and see for myself, and I may try and take him up on that. The only real problem, is that I'll be making this purchase before my first BP of the year.

- DAA

 

[sixstringsteve]

You honestly can't go wrong with either. I have a megalite and I love it. Yes, its 7oz heavier than a zpacks, but it is by no means a heavy bag.

ZPacks stuff (as you know from your jacket) is much better than it looks in the pics. I was seriously impressed with Davy's bag when I saw it the first time. It has tons more loft (but his is rated at 10* while mine is rated at 30*), and packs way smaller than mine.

I think it's more of a question of quilt vs mummy. I can unzip my WM and wear it like a quilt on hot nights, but I also like having a hood on my bag.

One thing about my WM megalite. It's listed as having 4" of loft. I can get 4-5" of loft, but I have to push all the down to the top of the bag. It didn't have much loft as I had hoped, but it still keeps me super warm. I"ve never been cold in mine, though I've only had it down to about 25*.

One more thing about my WM megalite. It's got lots of room inside for me (perhaps a little too much). I prefer a tighter cut that hugs my body more, I don't like dead space inside. The hyperlite fits me better. A strapping lad such as yourself might find the megalite is just right, or it might even be too confining for you. You're welcome to check mine out, but it's a 5'6" bag, so it won't really give you an accurate fit. I am VERY happy with my WM bag, but I think the zpacks is the better option if your'e counting grams. If you don't need a hood the zpacks is definitely the way to go.

 

[mesha]

I love my Zpacks sleeping bag. It is the 10 degree version. My wife is looking to get into one as well. They are comfortable and I have never noticed the zipper. Actual weight was the same as listed weight. As I have said before I would get one size longer than you think you need. The cut is very slim in the feet, so keep that in mind.

I may end up selling my 10 degree and getting a 30 degree, because the 10 degree is far overkill for what I need this bag for. The temp rating is conservative and I have slept warm in the Zpacks bag to about zero degrees.

Seriously borrow mine even if you just sleep in the back yard in it.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I'd be interested in your bag if you sell it Davy (unless Dave wants it, I'll give him 1st dibs).

 

[DAA]

10 degree is too warm for my needs, but I'd be interested in at least looking at it, if not actually trying it out in the backyard eventually. Weights and temp ratings as advertised is one of the reasons WM and Zpacks are the finalists.

Thanks!

- DAA

 

[Unimog]

I'd buy the ZPacks bag, try it out, and sell it to buy the WM if you aren't completely satisfied. You would probably be out $30 or $40, but you would probably spend that to get the 7oz anyway, right? It would probably sell in a hurry on the BackpackingLight board if not here.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I'd definitely visit Davy to see the sizing in person before ordering.

 

[DAA]

That IS a thought...

- DAA

 

[mesha]

Zpacks accepts returns for a full refund within 30 days. Even if you use the bag!

 

[ozzy702]

I'm familiar with the WM bags but not the zpacks bags. I know that zpacks has a good reputation for backpacks and lightweight minimalist shelters but I'm curious what makes their bags so much lighter. For me the most important factors in buying a bag are 1) appropriate warmth for intended use 2) weight and 3) durability and longevity of use. Price is important too but not nearly as much as the first three since I'll pay good money for quality items. Curious to see the outcome.

Wish I could afford a zpacks pack and shelter but cuben is $$$. I'll probably end up picking up a tarp tent since that's more in my price range.

 

[mesha]

I'm familiar with the WM bags but not the zpacks bags. I know that zpacks has a good reputation for backpacks and lightweight minimalist shelters but I'm curious what makes their bags so much lighter. For me the most important factors in buying a bag are 1) appropriate warmth for intended use 2) weight and 3) durability and longevity of use. Price is important too but not nearly as much as the first three since I'll pay good money for quality items. Curious to see the outcome.

900 fill down, pertex quantum GL shell material, no hood, smaller zippers, and .34 cuben fiber baffles instead of netting all contribute to the lightness.

western mountaineering bags are awesome. I love them. I also love packs.

 

[sixstringsteve]

zpacks are stupid cheap for what they are.

DAA, how important is being able to completely open up your bag like a blanket/quilt? The WM will allow you to do that. The zpacks can too, with a simple 1.2 oz addition. Do you mind sleeping on the zipper? I doubt I'd feel it, but I'd probably want a draft tube too, which adds another 1.2 oz.

Also, you'll most likely need a down balacalava with the zpacks, or at minimum a great beanie.

The Wm is much bigger inside (which is a bad thing for me). I"m thinking of selling my megalite for an ultralight because I feel like I'm swimming in it. It's one of WM's bigger bags.

 

[Rock Taco]

I love my Zpacks sleeping bag. It is the 10 degree version. My wife is looking to get into one as well. They are comfortable and I have never noticed the zipper. Actual weight was the same as listed weight. As I have said before I would get one size longer than you think you need. The cut is very slim in the feet, so keep that in mind.

I may end up selling my 10 degree and getting a 30 degree, because the 10 degree is far overkill for what I need this bag for. The temp rating is conservative and I have slept warm in the Zpacks bag to about zero degrees.

Seriously borrow mine even if you just sleep in the back yard in it.

What length/width bag did you get? Did you get the standard down or the water resistant down?

 

[DAA]

DAA, how important is being able to completely open up your bag like a blanket/quilt?

Zero importance. I've never done that with any sleeping bag.

Do you mind sleeping on the zipper? I doubt I'd feel it, but I'd probably want a draft tube too, which adds another 1.2 oz.

Of this, I'm not sure. I'm afraid I might not like sleeping on the zipper. Put it this way, if I can notice it, I'll wish I didn't. Being on the bottom, I see no reason for a draft tube, unless it is just to make the zipper less noticeable - but I can see how it might actually make it more noticeable? Really unsure about the whole bottom zipper deal, it's something that I won't know until I actually use one.

Also, you'll most likely need a down balacalava with the zpacks, or at minimum a great beanie.

And I'm afraid I'll hate that. Heck, let me just put it like this - ain't NO WAY I'm wearing a balaclava to bed. Not for plain old Uintas summer trips or backpacking in the canyons. I always have a lightweight beanie with me, I'm okay with wearing it to bed. But if I really have to go full blown balaclava, that's a deal killer, no way I'm wearing one of those things to sleep in... Really starting to think that if I do get the Zpacks bag, I should get the extra long, so I can burrow down inside it if I want to.

But these are exactly the kind of sleep comfort concerns I have with the Zpacks design.

The Wm is much bigger inside (which is a bad thing for me). I"m thinking of selling my megalite for an ultralight because I feel like I'm swimming in it. It's one of WM's bigger bags.

I want the bigger bag. If I get a Zpacks it will be a wide for sure. My current FF is their wide cut version, and it's as tight as I ever want to be in a sleeping bag. I have never tried sleeping in it with my ultralight down jacket on, but I think it would be awfully tight - probably borderline too tight as in compressing the insulation. Just looking at the published numbers, the Megalite should be a similar fit. I think I'd feel like I was in a straight jacket in the slim cut bags.

- DAA

 

[sixstringsteve]

Being on the bottom, I see no reason for a draft tube

Agreed. For some reason, I sleep a lot better with a right-zip. I like to unzip that size if I get too hot. Most people wouldn't need a draft tube, just weirdos like me.


I'm starting to wonder if a zpacks with a balacalva would be a better option for me since I'm a side-sleeper. My head would always be covered no matter which direction I'm facing.

It's weird though. One minute I think the zpacks is the ideal bag for me, then the next minute I feel like I'm making too many compromises. I just need to try one for a night.

 

[DAA]

Tell me about it! I've been trying to make up my mind on this for months already.

I suspect it really may come down to needing to try the Zpacks. I really want to save that 7 oz. But I don't know if I'll really be happy with the comfort.

I don't see myself using their generous return policy. I'd just sell it and take a loss as already suggested. But that would kinda suck, too...

On the other hand, I know I'd be a happy camper sleeping in the Megalite. I'd just always be second guessing if I could have shaved another 7 oz. off my pack...

- DAA

 

[sixstringsteve]

I say take one for the team and get a zpacks then let us know how you like it.

They are seriously light, and they're supposed to be incredibly warm compared to other bags of that weight.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I think you could just shave 7oz off the stakes you eat every night.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Dave, I am here to make your decision more difficult.

I did some highly scientific field testing in the back yard tonight between Davy's zpacks and my WM. This does not make me an expert on either one, but it was very helpful as I learned a few things about both of them. Granted, this testing is done at cold temps, not exactly what you'll be using your bag for, so bear that in mind. Many thanks to Davy for letting me use his bag, and I apologize for pointing out any flaws with the product. I tried to be as objective as possible, but we all know that never really happens.

Details of the experiment:

9:30 went to sleep in the WM megalite (30* bag, 5'6" length). Temp read 30* when I started, and there was a gentle breeze. No tent. I was sleeping on my NeoAir Xtherm pad directly on the grass (which had a few tufts of snow under the pad, but it was mainly grass.) I was using a regular down pillow with my nemo fillo on top of it. I had my thermometer about 2 feet away to record temps. I was wearing my merino wool thermals and a cotton/acrylic beanie.

It took me about 10 minutes to fall asleep. The moon was bright, but I pulled my beanie over my eyes to block it out. I cinched the drawstring tight around my face, leaving a hole for my mouth and nose. This bag has a bit of a half-baffle on the front half of the neck. It doesn't have its own drawstring like a colder bag, but it serves to keep warm air below your neck. It doesn't work as well as a true draft collar, but it's better than nothing. Also, the hood is cut a little bit wide for some weird reason. It's pretty chilly unless I cinch it up all the way, even with a beanie. I felt air whoosh by my face every time I made big movements. The cut of this bag is definitely too big for me. I could easily fit a sack of potatoes in my bag with me and still have some wiggle room.

I woke up around 11:00 PM because I was getting cold in the megalite. I looked over at my thermometer and it was 10* (20* below the rating of this bag). I didn't realize it at the time, but the air in my pad had condensed so much that it looked about 50% inflated. I'm sure that had a lot to do with why I was chilly. This was a reminder to inflate my pad with another bag vs my breath.

I woke up because I was cold and starting to get a bit uncomfortable. I definitely could have slept through the night at that temp, but it wasn't "toasty" and I had cold spots, especially on my hip when sleeping on my side. One thing I don't like about the megalite is the way the down shifts to the sides in the night. It's easy to fluff it up and push the down back on top of me from inside the bag, but it's annoying. Marmot makes their plasma bags with vertical baffles to "solve" this problem. Now, even though I don't like the way the down falls off you a bit during the night, I do like how easy it is to push down around to cold spots to warm you up. For cold weather, I can push all the down to the top of the bag. For warm weather, I can push it all to the bottom underneath me. I just wish the down stayed in place a bit more. I'm sure I'm exaggerating the problem, but i did feel cold spots that went away when I pushed more down into them.

I could lay on my back and fold my hands on my chest and my elbows had plenty of room to still move around. My feet definitely touched the end, but they weren't crammed against it. I'm convinced i'm not compressing any down in the feet. The 5'6" is the right length for me, the bag is just too wide at the shoulders, chest, and hips.

I noticed the bag was covered in icy condensation. At these temps, the ice doesn't really sink into the down, it just freezes on the outer layer of the bag. I'm not sure how water resistant the shell is on the megalite, but the area around my mouth was damp. I always wake up with condensation/wetness around my face, except for the microfiber WM bags I've used. That's a bit annoying at night. I wonder if some sort of asorbant cloth would help with this.

If I had more clothing on in my bag, I'd have been able to stay warm no problem, but for testing purposes, it was fine. I'd have no problem taking my bag down to 10* in the backcountry. I had heard that WM was conservative on their ratings, and now I believe it. I'm usually a cold sleeper anyway. If I had re-inflated my pad, I'm betting I would have gone right back to sleep, with a slight cold spot over my hips that would require repositioning down throughout the night.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Next up was the zpacks bag. Davy and I are pretty sure it's a 6'1" version, wide, 10*. This is obviously not an apples to apples comparison, but it's interesting either way. For this test, I re-inflated my neoair, swapped out my hat to an elmer fudd hunting style hat, and climbed in. It was 10*. I zipped the zipper up all the way, put it on the bottom so I was sleeping on it (like it's meant to do), and cinched the drawstring tightly around my neck.

Instantly I noticed some differences between the bags.

1) the cloth inside the zpacks feels more like cotton than the slippery fabric of the WM. It was almost sticky, and it grabbed your clothes a little. I wonder if this is because the zpacks bag is dirty and needs to be washed, or if this is how it always feels. WHen I moved, the bag moved with me. In the WM, when I roll on my side, the bag stays on its side and I slip around inside. I can see advantages to both. The zpacks bag was definitely warmer from the start, where the WM takes a second to get the cold slippery fabric warm.

2) the cut of the zpacks fits my body a LOT better. I can't fit a sack of potatoes in it with me inside. I could still move around inside it, and move my arms from my thighs to my shoulders without being awkward, but there wasn't nearly as much dead space to fill. This surprised me since this is the "wide" version of the bag. I don't think I'd want the bag to be any narrower, or it'd be too narrow.

3) the zpacks had more loft than the WM (as it should, since it's rated for 20* colder). I could feel the thick blanket of down all around on all sides. It was much warmer than the WM, but it never felt too warm for me (I hardly ever complain about being too warm while sleeping, unless it's over 80* at night).

4) Length: surprisingly enough, the zpacks felt even shorter than the WM. I'm 5'6" and I couldn't pull the top of the bag up past my eyes/forehead. This really surprised me. I know it's rated to be cinched at your neck, but I'm 100% sure anything shorter would be too short for me. In fact, when I order mine, I'll be getting the 6'5" one.

5) the cinch around the neck was awesome. It completely eliminated any air whooshing, and sealed me from the neck down better than any bag I've ever tried. This led me to realize just how cold my head was though, even with the elmer fudd hat. If I were to use it this way, I'd need the down balaclava to keep my head warm, and even then I wonder if it'd be warm enough. The top of the bag is really wide, so it required a lot of string to close it around my neck, but it worked just like it should with no issues.

6) After 5 minutes of tossing and turning, I switched over to my side. I felt something that felt like a foxtail weed or bur in the side of my calf/knee area. I immediately felt bad for bringing a weed into my friend's bag, but I couldn't imagine how it happened. I shifted around a bit, but it didn't go away. Then I started to wonder if it was the zipper I was feeling. Up to this point, I couldn't feel the zipper at all. In fact, I wouldn't be able to tell if it were directly beneath my spine or on top of me. The zipper is indistinguishable. HOWEVER, where the zipper starts, it has a really stiff piece of zipper that was scratching my leg. This was the foxtrail bur feeling. Not cool. This was enough to cause enough discomfort to annoy me and keep me up. I shifted the bag so the end of the zipper was on the side instead of under me, and it went away. I wonder if all the bags are like this, or just this one. I think it could be fixed with some soft fleece over it, or maybe trimming it more, but it was a bummer.

7) The thread used to sew the bag is scratchier than the WM. I only noticed it in one spot. It wasn't enough to keep my up at night, but it was noticeable enough to mention.

8) The zipper started at my knees.

9) Great down retention. I only 'tested' it for 20 minutes, but the down didn't shift at all during that time. Very impressive here. I wouldn't expect to find cold spots in the middle of the night. This is most likely due to the 30% overfill they provide standard.

10) It's noticeably lighter than my WM, and my WM is not heavy. It's awesome that a 10* bag weighs less than an ultralight 30* bag.

11) The zpacks is handbuilt by guys who camp. Their quality is great, but fit and finish details I'd give them an 8/10. The WM gets a 10/10 (probably because they've been doing this for so long). The zpacks isn't low quality at all, but it does feel a TINY bit more homemade than factory made like the WM. I'm sure this will only improve with time as his design continues to be tweaked.

My goal was to sleep in the bag for the rest of the night to get a good idea of it, but I struggled to fall asleep in this bag. It could have been the excitement of finally trying a zpacks, or maybe it's because I had already slept an hour and a half and I wasn't very tired anymore (though not likely, as I'm still pretty tired writing this review). My face was so cold that I had a hard time sleeping. This is no fault of the bag, because it isn't designed to keep your face warm. At 25* or warmer, it wouldn't be an issue at all.

I decided to experiment a bit with the bag, since I'm new to quilts and hoodless bags. I pulled the opening up to my chin and ears and it stayed in place. It was much warmer this way. I tried to pull it up all the way over my head like a traditional mummy bag, but it wasn't long enough, and it was awkwardly shaped to be used like a hood. I think an extra 5-6" would have made it go over my head, but it still would have been awkward. So I put it back to my chin and found a happy medium. The velcro tab that closes over the top of the zipper was nice. It was hard to feel in the dark which side of the tab is the loop end of the hook and loop velcro fastener, but once you do it once or twice you get the hang of it. It closed the zipper nicely and it didn't move at all.

I then experimented with some different layouts. I completely loosened the cinch cord around the neck and pulled my arms out. It fit nicely like this, tucked under my arms (like how women wear a towell stepping out of the shower). I could see this being extremely comfortable in the warmer temps. Earlier I had wondered why the neck opening was so wide, and now it made sense

I took it one step further and completely unzipped the bag. Davy told me this is how he uses it and that he's never zipped it up, even in 0* situations. It sounds stupid, but the bag instantly transformed the second I unzipped it. It unzipped all the way down to the back of my knees, and my body was resting directly on my pad. It was plenty warm this way, which surprised me (even though logically it makes sense, mentally it did not). I draped the bag over me like a blanket and just tucked it under my sides to keep drafts out. It worked beautifully, and I'm confident that if I owned one, this is how I'd use the bag 99.9% of the time. It was every bit as warm as when I had it zipped up, but I could pull it tight or leave it loose around my body. Now I know why quilts are catching on so well, they really give you a ton of options. I always worried about rolling over and untucking my quilt and introducing a draft, but it was really intuitive and that didn't happen for more than half a second. I still wasn't able to pull the bag over my head, but I felt like I would have been warmer if I had been able to. When I tried to pull it over my head, my feet were compressing the down in the foot box. The 6'5" or possibly even longer would be my preference, and I'm only 5'6". As a quilt, it was also easier to move around in, since it didn't stick to my clothing as much, since I had more room.

On a side note, the footbox of the WM seemed to be a bit warmer. I can't explain why. The zpacks wasn't cold per se, but my feet were the coldest part in the bag, which wasn't a concern in the 30* WM.

I'm still undecided on which bag is the right one for me, but I'm heavily leaning towards a zpacks. If/when I order one, it will probably have the following modifications:

- 6'5" (or possibly 6'7") long so I can pull it entirely over my head.
- wide version (in fact, another 2-3" wider wouldn't hurt when using it as a quilt)
- short 2' zipper going from the bottom of the bag up to my knees only. Tuck the zipper end in somewhere it won't be scratchy. The rest will be open with no zipper. I think this will be nice to allow me to fully open it like a blanket to throw over another lighter bag for extra insulation. (I'm not 100% married tot his idea, I may just leave it as is and ditch the zipper entirely)
- keep the velcro at the neck and drawstring just in case I want to cinch it around my neck


I hope that helps. I tried to be fair to both bags. There's no doubt they're both fantastic bags for the price. Depending on the features and how you use them, one will most likely stand out as suiting your needs better. I can definitely see myself becoming a quilt convert after this test.