New bag, WM Megalite or Zpacks? Fear based decision?

[sixstringsteve]

by the way the inside of the bag had that rubbery feeling from brand new. It is not because it is dirty.

From zpacks:

Black .75 oz/sqyd Pertex Quantum GL on the inside for quick drying.
Green .75 oz/sqyd Pertex Quantum GL on the outer shell.

Both the liner and the shell are treated with durable water repellant to resist rain spray and body moisture.​

I wonder if that's what I was feeling.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Interesting news from Joe:

Good morning Steve,

The "rubbery" material was an odd batch of material that we used for a few months. There was nothing wrong with it per say, just the odd texture on the coating.

We are using Pertex GL inside and out now. It is lighter material and feels nice, like normal nylon. It is more like the outer material on your friend's bag.​

 

[mesha]

Interesting news from Joe:

Good morning Steve,

The "rubbery" material was an odd batch of material that we used for a few months. There was nothing wrong with it per say, just the odd texture on the coating.

We are using Pertex GL inside and out now. It is lighter material and feels nice, like normal nylon. It is more like the outer material on your friend's bag.​

good to know.

 

[mesha]

FWIW, regarding the fit and finish of the Zpacks sleeping bag remember that they are sewing cuban fiber baffles to Pertex shell material. The hand of the cuben fiber is much different than the mesh baffles most sleeping bags use. The junctions of the cuban baffles and fabric will seem "bunchy". This cannot be helped with the baffle material. Also, remember the Zpacks bag steve reviewed of mine had 50+ nights in it and not 50 easy nights.

No doubt Western Mountaineering gets a 10/10 on fit and finish. There just isn't anyone better. I just didn't want people to get a misleading idea of the quality of Zpacks. When I pulled it out of package, it arrived in when I bought it, I would have given it a 9.8/10 for finish. The down would get a 10/10. It is the best quality down I have experienced to date.

 

[DAA]

Davy, have you ever known anyone to give a quilt an honest try, and not like them? Go back to a sleeping bag?

I'm still going back and forth. But when I'm leaning Zpacks, I'm starting to think that they are really more like quilts with zippers, than sleeping bags. So if I'm going that way, might as well go ALL the way, save another ounce and just get a 30* quilt like the new EE Enigma.

But I'm really not very confident I'll be good with a quilt... Just think I sleep too cold, so worried about drafts, and I'm too much a thrasher, so worried about constantly ending up out from under it. Which, what it really all adds up to, is I'm afraid I won't sleep well - which I would truly hate. That's about the point I start leaning towards WM again. Until I break out the spreadsheet and start trying to carve ounces, then I go all the way back towards quilt. Until I talk myself out of it. And start the whole loop over again...

So, have you seen anyone take the quilt plunge, but end up regretting it?

- DAA

 

[ozzy702]

FWIW, regarding the fit and finish of the Zpacks sleeping bag remember that they are sewing cuban fiber baffles to Pertex shell material. The hand of the cuben fiber is much different than the mesh baffles most sleeping bags use. The junctions of the cuban baffles and fabric will seem "bunchy". This cannot be helped with the baffle material. Also, remember the Zpacks bag steve reviewed of mine had 50+ nights in it and not 50 easy nights.

No doubt Western Mountaineering gets a 10/10 on fit and finish. There just isn't anyone better. I just didn't want people to get a misleading idea of the quality of Zpacks. When I pulled it out of package, it arrived in when I bought it, I would have given it a 9.8/10 for finish. The down would get a 10/10. It is the best quality down I have experienced to date.

I am very interested in the zpacks bag but am curious on the sizing. The girth sizing is 56" or 61", which are you using? I'm just curious if I could get away with 56" and still be comfortable. I think my current Marmot bag is either 56" or 58" and is fairly tight on my shoulders. I'll have to look it up and see.

 

[mesha]

Davy, have you ever known anyone to give a quilt an honest try, and not like them? Go back to a sleeping bag?

I'm still going back and forth. But when I'm leaning Zpacks, I'm starting to think that they are really more like quilts with zippers, than sleeping bags. So if I'm going that way, might as well go ALL the way, save another ounce and just get a 30* quilt like the new EE Enigma.

But I'm really not very confident I'll be good with a quilt... Just think I sleep too cold, so worried about drafts, and I'm too much a thrasher, so worried about constantly ending up out from under it. Which, what it really all adds up to, is I'm afraid I won't sleep well - which I would truly hate. That's about the point I start leaning towards WM again. Until I break out the spreadsheet and start trying to carve ounces, then I go all the way back towards quilt. Until I talk myself out of it. And start the whole loop over again...

So, have you seen anyone take the quilt plunge, but end up regretting it?

- DAA

You are 100 percent right on the Zpacks being a quilt with a zipper. On the next one I order I will delete the zipper. I am also thinking about an enigma. It will save me a few bucks, but it will also be a little heavier.

I have one friend that doesn't like quilts. He has never owned a quilt, but has used them a few times. He does not trash and is a back sleeper. I honestly don't know why he doesn't like quilts. He is a REALLY small person and is cold all the time. He just doesn't like them.

I think Steve might have a problem with quilts, but I am not sure.

If you want to get a feel for sleeping with a quilt then just use your bag without using the zipper and wrap it over you like a quilt. I slept with my backpacking bag that way for a season or so before I was convinced quilt was the way to go for me. I move around a lot when I sleep and the quilt does come off of me sometimes in the night. That part of it doesn't make me get less sleep though, I move too much for it to really matter. What it has helped with is not getting all twisted up in the sleeping bag from my squirming. That does cause me to get less rest cause I get all frustrated and have to untangle myself and it ends up really waking me up rather than just causing me to turn over one more time.

You can borrow any of my quilts (35, 35, 30, and 10 degree) if you would like. You can use your sleeping bag like a quilt as well. I would do those before I bought an actual quilt to see if you like it. Maybe it is not for you. I sleep better in a quilt, a lot better. At first it was about the weight savings, but I could not go back to a mummy bag now.

One thing I will say about quilt sleeping is a larger size pad is nice. with a large pad the quilt seals better to the pad and you get less drafts than with a really small pad.

 

[mesha]

I am very interested in the zpacks bag but am curious on the sizing. The girth sizing is 56" or 61", which are you using? I'm just curious if I could get away with 56" and still be comfortable. I think my current Marmot bag is either 56" or 58" and is fairly tight on my shoulders. I'll have to look it up and see.

I use the 61". The room is nice for me, but I am a big guy (240lb). If you think the 61" will be too big, but the 56" is too small give the enigma a try. Their wide size quilt is 58" and might be in your goldilocks zone

 

[DAA]

Thanks Davy.

I'm not willing to add any more weight for a larger pad. My regular sized Synmat UL7 is here to stay. For the time being anyway .

I think, I'm just going to say to heck with it and go for a quilt. The ounces are just too, too tempting to ignore. My current 20* Feathered Friends bag is about 32 oz. all in. Figure one of the two quilts below will be about 18 oz., shaving 14 oz. off the pack is just too huge to walk away from.

So now, my new dilema to obsess over for about another month, is between the Zpacks 30* Extra Long/Wide, or the EE Enigma 30* Long Wide. Sigh...

Going purely by mfg specs from their websites. If I end up using the pad straps and stuff with the EE, they should end up virtually the same weight. Maybe 1/2 and oz. lighter for the EE, but for purposes of decision making, I'm calling them a tie for weight.

Looks like the Zpacks is a bit larger around at the shoulder at 61" vs. 58" for the EE. A little larger there sounds better. Advantage Zpacks.

The EE is larger in the footbox at 42" vs. 35". I really like that, hate getting my feet tangled up in the bottom of a mummy bag. Advantage EE.

Fill... 10.9 oz of 900 for Zpacks, 10.4 oz of 850 DownTek for EE. At half an ounce more fill, and 900 to boot, this looks like advantage Zpacks. But, being larger at the shoulder and less tapered, I'm not so sure that extra half ounce will actually mean anything in real world loft. Likewise, 900 vs. 850, pretty slim difference. I'm not swayed by the DownTek, nor tempted by Zpacks free option of probably the same 850 water resistant down. It may prove to be the greatest advance in the history of insulation, but for now, I'm just not convinced of the utility of water resistant down. But, anway, I'm calling the fill a virtual tie.

Back to obsessing over which of these two...

- DAA

 

[DAA]

P.S...

Price is a tie too. $410 vs $405.

- DAA

 

[Unimog]

The EE is larger in the footbox at 42" vs. 35". I really like that, hate getting my feet tangled up in the bottom of a mummy bag. Advantage EE.
- DAA

For what it is worth, my foot box on the quilt never gets twisted up the way a sleeping bag did. I think it is because the foot box only comes up to the knees and it was the hips and shoulders twisting it up where that area is now attached to the pad, which is pretty firm.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Dave, the real question comes down to the color of the bag. That's far more important than down fill, measuremeants, and weight.

 

[Rock Taco]

And don't forget baffle direction.

 

[DAA]

And don't forget baffle direction.

Excellent point. I don't know the real or even potential advantages of one vs. the other though.

Any comments on that would be welcomed!

- DAA

 

[sixstringsteve]

I wouldn't worry about the down shifting around on the zpacks, but vertical baffles have always appealed to me on paper.

 

[mesha]

Thanks Davy.

I'm not willing to add any more weight for a larger pad. My regular sized Synmat UL7 is here to stay. For the time being anyway .

I think, I'm just going to say to heck with it and go for a quilt. The ounces are just too, too tempting to ignore. My current 20* Feathered Friends bag is about 32 oz. all in. Figure one of the two quilts below will be about 18 oz., shaving 14 oz. off the pack is just too huge to walk away from.

So now, my new dilema to obsess over for about another month, is between the Zpacks 30* Extra Long/Wide, or the EE Enigma 30* Long Wide. Sigh...

Going purely by mfg specs from their websites. If I end up using the pad straps and stuff with the EE, they should end up virtually the same weight. Maybe 1/2 and oz. lighter for the EE, but for purposes of decision making, I'm calling them a tie for weight.

Looks like the Zpacks is a bit larger around at the shoulder at 61" vs. 58" for the EE. A little larger there sounds better. Advantage Zpacks.

The EE is larger in the footbox at 42" vs. 35". I really like that, hate getting my feet tangled up in the bottom of a mummy bag. Advantage EE.

Fill... 10.9 oz of 900 for Zpacks, 10.4 oz of 850 DownTek for EE. At half an ounce more fill, and 900 to boot, this looks like advantage Zpacks. But, being larger at the shoulder and less tapered, I'm not so sure that extra half ounce will actually mean anything in real world loft. Likewise, 900 vs. 850, pretty slim difference. I'm not swayed by the DownTek, nor tempted by Zpacks free option of probably the same 850 water resistant down. It may prove to be the greatest advance in the history of insulation, but for now, I'm just not convinced of the utility of water resistant down. But, anway, I'm calling the fill a virtual tie.

Back to obsessing over which of these two...

- DAA

I don't think you will regret the quilt. Since you are looking at the wide version of the Zpacks, I don't think a wider pad will be needed. If you were getting a narrow then maybe.

I am looking hard at the enigma as well. If I go with it, it will be because of the wider footbox and the fact that trying a new company might be nice

If I stick with a Zpacks I will order the x-long wide version. I will leave out the zipper completely, no pad straps, and have them leave it open to the last baffle.

 

[mesha]

Excellent point. I don't know the real or even potential advantages of one vs. the other though.

Any comments on that would be welcomed!

- DAA

I haven't noticed any down shifting in the Zpacks. I have about 40 nights in it. If it did shift it wouldn't be hard to shake it back to the top.

Vertical baffles are supposed to be a little lighter because you need less baffle to control the same amount of down. If you store your bag hanging then vertical baffles can settle into the bottom. Also, not a big deal to rearrange.

 

[Unimog]

If I stick with a Zpacks I will order the x-long wide version. I will leave out the zipper completely, no pad straps, and have them leave it open to the last baffle.

Davy, Why no pad straps? Don't you seal your quilt down to your pad in cold weather? My quilt works great the way it is, but the way I thrash, I don't see the system working for me without them.

 

[mesha]

Davy, Why no pad straps? Don't you seal your quilt down to your pad in cold weather? My quilt works great the way it is, but the way I thrash, I don't see the system working for me without them.

I don't use pad straps. I don't hook the pad to the pad even in cold weather. Last night would be an example. Just opened it up and went to sleep. I just tuck the quilt around my body and get less draft than with pad straps.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I'm ready to move to a quilt. I like that they can cinch tighter to my body, and I don't have any dead air space to heat up. I ended up unziping my bag last night and using it more like a quilt, and it got a lot warmer. I may experiment and learn how to build my own quilt.