New cars are worse than old cars

[Stephen]

I think vehicles peaked 2000's, early 2010's. You get that mix of efficient fuel injection with good ride quality, simplistic assembly, straight-forward design choices, and basic creature comforts.

This is a great point. My 2012 Suzuki Kizashi is one of my favorite cars I've owned. Its got just enough tech to make it feel "modern", but still no infotainment center or over active nanny features. It has a six-speed manual, plenty of power, rides great, but its still super simple to work on. It'll be a sad day when I have to say goodbye to it.

My favorite car to drive is my 1990 Miata. Manual everything, and it is just so visceral to drive. You feel every input, steering, clutch, shifter, throttle, brakes. Nothing is forgiving, but its still a joy to drive and brings a smile to my face every time.

 

[TRD270]

It's this dumb guys opinion as all these nanny features forced on us in the name of "safety" are actually having the reverse effect. I feel the average driver now is so reliant on these features they've forgotten basic driving skills. Its also allowing for more distracted drivers, ohh my car tells me if i'm leaving my lane or about to smash into something hell it will brake on its own so I can just blatantly scroll through my tictoc while driving down the road.

No more nanny systems, no more automatics and distracted driving would drop significantly.

Aside from the crappin auto park BS on the new jeeps i'm happy with their lack of nanny shiz. The JT with its higher trim level certainly more gizmos than I care for.....but unfortunately no base ass jeep with Mojave package.

As has been stated I enjoy the comfort inside, quiet cabs and better power of modern vehicles. But I still love driving Pauls POS Jetta back and forth to the airport

 

[Spork]

My wife's car has the lane assist stuff and it wants the car to be shifted a foot further to the outside than I do so I'm constantly fighting the car for where I want to be in the lane. The only new tech I like is the backup camera.

 

[Thursty]

It's this dumb guys opinion as all these nanny features forced on us in the name of "safety" are actually having the reverse effect. I feel the average driver now is so reliant on these features they've forgotten basic driving skills. Its also allowing for more distracted drivers, ohh my car tells me if i'm leaving my lane or about to smash into something hell it will brake on its own so I can just blatantly scroll through my tictoc while driving down the road.

No more nanny systems, no more automatics and distracted driving would drop significantly.

Agreed! Take back up cameras, for example, and how lazy/dependent some people have become with those.

 

[jeeper]

I’m curious to know, of those of you who are complaining about the nanny features.. how many of you have an Alexa device, or have smart locks/bulbs/etc in your house? These are also make life easier items that most people now rely on. I won’t allow them, but I’m the minority.

My grandma would be ashamed to know that my wife cant can peaches.. but never in my life have we had the need for canned peaches. It’s a lost skill.. but it’s irrelevant.

If your car has cameras all around, using mirrors becomes a lost skill.. that isn’t relevant. The cameras actually allow better visibility, so why hate them?

If your monitors tell you your tire pressure, and you have a tire shop you like, knowing how to check your tires is a lost skill that is no longer relevant.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m still VERY much on the self sufficient cave man mindset.. I’m just saying my mindset isn’t the only RIGHT one.

None of us are using cursive to hand write letters and send them to each other with pigeons anymore either.

 

[DesertRam]

I'm with you, no smart stuff in my house. I have enough of that with my phone.

My wife can't can peaches, but I can, and I have taught my daughter. We make and can peaches, jam, jelly, and several large batches of salsa each year. But you're right, it's kind of a lost art/science that maybe most don't need to know.

Electronics can fail or encounter other issues. What happens when the backup camera is fogged up? If one can't use mirrors, does one just bag it and stay home from work? I don't hate them, just think that one should also know mirrors. Same goes for checking the air pressure and other basic maintenance items. But then I think everyone should be able to drive a manual transmission, so what do I know?

Cursive? Yikes. My mom writes everything in cursive and my kids need a special decoder ring to read her cards. When I took the GMAT many years ago I had to rewrite a couple-page passage in cursive. That was interesting!

 

[Vonski]

…but never in my life have we had the need for canned peaches. It’s a lost skill.. but it’s irrelevant.

Irrelevant for now… bwahahahaaaa! 🔥 ☠️ ☢️

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Between current and future EPA, FMVSS and NHTSA standards, it's a fools errand to consider making a simple vehicle for the US market.

Simple vehicles exist in many markets around the world. Hand crank windows, mechanical diesels, etc. Between regulation and market demand, they cannot/will-not sell in the US.

Traditional (99%) of new car buyers, want the most features, not less.

 

[N-Smooth]

I’m curious to know, of those of you who are complaining about the nanny features.. how many of you have an Alexa device, or have smart locks/bulbs/etc in your house? These are also make life easier items that most people now rely on. I won’t allow them, but I’m the minority.

My grandma would be ashamed to know that my wife cant can peaches.. but never in my life have we had the need for canned peaches. It’s a lost skill.. but it’s irrelevant.

If your car has cameras all around, using mirrors becomes a lost skill.. that isn’t relevant. The cameras actually allow better visibility, so why hate them?

If your monitors tell you your tire pressure, and you have a tire shop you like, knowing how to check your tires is a lost skill that is no longer relevant.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m still VERY much on the self sufficient cave man mindset.. I’m just saying my mindset isn’t the only RIGHT one.

None of us are using cursive to hand write letters and send them to each other with pigeons anymore either.

no wiretap in my house. I have a couple "smart" outlets and lights that I control with my phone but that's it.

I still look at mirrors when I back up. Occasionally I use the mirrors and cam.

 

[Herzog]

Traditional (99%) of new car buyers, want the most features, not less.

Well, 99% of people are wrong.

 

[Hickey]

It's this dumb guys opinion as all these nanny features forced on us in the name of "safety" are actually having the reverse effect. I feel the average driver now is so reliant on these features they've forgotten basic driving skills. Its also allowing for more distracted drivers, ohh my car tells me if i'm leaving my lane or about to smash into something hell it will brake on its own so I can just blatantly scroll through my tictoc while driving down the road.

No more nanny systems, no more automatics and distracted driving would drop significantly.

Aside from the crappin auto park BS on the new jeeps i'm happy with their lack of nanny shiz. The JT with its higher trim level certainly more gizmos than I care for.....but unfortunately no base ass jeep with Mojave package.

As has been stated I enjoy the comfort inside, quiet cabs and better power of modern vehicles. But I still love driving Pauls POS Jetta back and forth to the airport

I COMPLETELY agree. We have this stuff on our work trucks and it just lowers their skill level.

 

[85CUCVKRAWLER]

Between current and future EPA, FMVSS and NHTSA standards, it's a fools errand to consider making a simple vehicle for the US market.

Simple vehicles exist in many markets around the world. Hand crank windows, mechanical diesels, etc. Between regulation and market demand, they cannot/will-not sell in the US.

Traditional (99%) of new car buyers, want the most features, not less.

Ehhh, i would ague against your last point. I think there is a gigantic market for small, cheap commuter cars/trucks but the problem is that a modern commuter car/truck priced at around $20k is going to run into one (or more) of three issues
#1 EPA emission standards. Look at Europe, they sell tons of small diesel commuter cars that are super-double-illegal here in the states
#2 NHTSA safety standards. Small cars dont meet crush standards set forth from NHTSA. This is the specific reason why jeep had to ditch the I-6 motor we all love and miss dearly for the more compact minivan motor that dies right at 120k miles.
#3 Profitability. American manufacturers cant meet profit margin incentives and hence keep leaning into $80k base model suburban's. American manufacturers cant streamline their manufacturing to produce enough profit and foreign manufacturers cant swallow the import tarriffs.

 

[TRD270]

#1 EPA emission standards

#2 NHTSA safety standards

More screwing ourselves to “protect” ourselves

 

[N-Smooth]

They should just remake 80's squarebody Chevy's, right? It's funny to think about because there would be a lot of people putting down a deposit like the cyber truck but these people would actually be cool.

If they would remake an XJ I'd put down all kinds of money for a deposit. That's the stuff dreams are made of!

 

[Herzog]

If they would remake an XJ I'd put down all kinds of money for a deposit. That's the stuff dreams are made of!

Same
As long as it didn't look like a "compass/patriot" or whatever the crap that was.

 

[N-Smooth]

Same
As long as it didn't look like a "compass/patriot" or whatever the crap that was.

Nah I mean like a carbon copy. I can't even think about it, I get too excited

 

[Kevin B.]

#3 Profitability. American manufacturers cant meet profit margin incentives and hence keep leaning into $80k base model suburban's. American manufacturers cant streamline their manufacturing to produce enough profit and foreign manufacturers cant swallow the import tarriffs.

All three points are correct, but I'd wager this is the biggest one. There's X amount of dollars available to make new vehicles, and the people with the dollars are going to use it making vehicles that get them the biggest profit margin.

 

[Kevin B.]

If they would remake an XJ I'd put down all kinds of money for a deposit. That's the stuff dreams are made of!

I sounded just like this when the FJ Cruiser was rumored. We all wanted something like an FJ40 or 70, or even a 1st gen 4Runner - solid axle front, pop top, etc. It didn't happen.

The new Bronco is the closest thing I've seen to an automaker bringing back an old model and doing it right, but it's still got too much electronic whizbangery to make me comfortable owning one (not that that would stop me if I had 60k to drop on a new 4WD - I'd just bitch about it a lot).

 

[johngottfredson]

The new Bronco is the closest thing I've seen to an automaker bringing back an old model and doing it right, but it's still got too much electronic whizbangery to make me comfortable owning one (not that that would stop me if I had 60k to drop on a new 4WD - I'd just bitch about it a lot).

The broncos actually inspired this post. I had one I owned for a year and put 20k miles on it. HATED the tech. Was the reason I sold. But my memory is short, so I went and drove one the other day, thinking maybe I misjudged them, since they look so cool.

Nope. Still hate. I ended up finding a 2000 Land Cruiser that followed me home, smiles all the way.

My daily is a 2021 tundra, which feels like the newest old truck I could buy, essentially the same tech as when they came out in 2007. It is funny to read all the car reviews leading up to the gen 3 release, complaining how “long in the tooth” these gen 2 tundra were, lacking in modern features. Literally the thing I like best about them, and the reason I bought mine the day after the gen 3 was rolled out and I saw the ghost of Christmas future.

I do think 1997-2012 is my favorite window for vehicle tech.

 

[moab_cj5]

I'd love a 2023+ Toyota Sequoia. New cars have some way cool features. Are Nanny controls lame, sure, but I love the convinces in some newer Vehicles. I'd take a new Bronco, Lexus GX550, LX 600, or Sequia in a heartbeat. I'd also drive an even never 1 Ton truck than my 2018. I wish my F350 had more cameras to help me park the damn thing, it's HUGE! I'm sure they make me a worse driver, but I like having cameras help me park so I don't hit anything in my super expensive truck.

Lockers and big tires have definitely made me a worse driver off-road, so not only new tech, but anything that makes driving easier can make us worse drivers if we let it.