New DD/tow rig?

[Greg]

We're considering a new truck for the wife, it will be her DD and will see occasional tow duty pulling our camper and the car hauler, probably some mild offroad adventures (Baja), etc.

Her current 2015 Ford F150 EcoBoost has been a let down in the towing department, as it overheated badly last Summer towing the 22' camp trailer. The camp trailer has a GVW of 6,000#'s, but it sits high and feels heavier than it really is while towing, due to the profile. Otherwise, she has absolutely loved the truck. It averages 18 MPG which is decent for a 1/2 ton. It's easy enough to maneuver in parking lots, gets 600 miles out of a tank of gas, has a mild leveling kit, Falcon shocks and 285's.

We're looking for a 1/2 ton in similar size, probably going to buy new. I don't think I'll go for another EcoBoost, I believe they have a design flaw that rears it's head after many miles. We test drove a newer F150 with a Coyote and the 10 speed auto and it was OK, but not crazy impressive. The wife isn't super brand loyal, she likes her Ford but is willing to consider other options.

The Dodge 1500's are good looking trucks, the interior on the higher end trucks are really nice, which the wife likes. But IMO the EcoDiesel is a ticking time bomb, great potential with killer torque and MPG's, but emissions controls & carbon buildup will effect them over time. I don't think I'm a big Hemi fan, so not really interested in a gas Dodge.

We looked at a few Chevy 1500's and I have a friend with a 2021 that was built with the 6.2l V8 and the 10 speed auto. He has been getting pretty impressive mileage with that combo, up to 23-24 on the highway and averaging 19 MPG all around. That's pretty impressive for a big 6.2, I'm sure the 10 speed auto keeps the RPM's down and the engine in peak efficiency/torque.

Chevy does offer a 3.0 Duramax diesel inline 6 that makes an incredible 460 ft/lbs of torque... starting at 1500 RPM. My biggest hesitations with this engine is that it's brand new, I don't know what kind of issues it'll have down the road. The EcoDiesel Dodge/Jeep offers has been around for several years. Is the Chevy Duramax 3.0 going to be trouble free? Also, the Duramax 3.0 has a timing belt that has a 100,000 mile service interval.... and the belt is at the BACK of the engine! You'll have to drop the transmission & t-case to change the timing belt!?! WTF??

I'm wondering if we should just stick with a tried and true V8 gas 6.2 in the Chevy? Any input or thoughts? We're not interested in the Tundra, seems to get pretty poor MPG.

 

[johngottfredson]

Old tundra gets poor gas mileage, and doesn’t tow as well as the ecoboost (as long as they don’t overheat) I’m on my third one, but I don’t tow much, I just like their old school simplicity and reliability, but I’ve enjoyed driving my ecoboosts more.

New tundra has pretty impressive specs - twin turbo with crazy torque/hp increases over older gen. And better mpgs as well. Plus, finally, a rear locker in the off road package. I’m not knowledgeable enough to know if they will have the same overheating problems as the ecoboosts over time, but maybe Toyota engineers know something Ford doesn’t?

 

[RockChucker]

IMO guys that say they are getting a diesel for fuel economy and thereby cheaper ownership are fooling themselves. If you want the diesel, get the diesel and say that you want it because it is a diesel. I’ve owned my duramax for 7 years and had an older duramax for a couple years before that. I love how well it hauls heavy. But it hasn’t been without maintenance cost. I’ve done head gaskets and injectors.
Edit below sentence because I can’t complete a thought apparently. Plus added a funny.

Even if I hadn’t done those, the cost of an oil change and periodic fuel filter changes are still more expensive maintenance than a gasser. The fact that the fuel economy is maybe 1 or 2 mpg better doing DD duty is not enough justification to get a diesel. The only caveat is if you have a Cummings. Everyone knows they get 96.4 mpg towing 146k pounds up hill both ways in the winter. 😆
Edit/

I nearly sold my truck last summer to change out for a 1 ton gasser that is a 2014ish. Then I realized the market is ridiculous and I wasn’t going to pay nearly $40k for a gas truck that had more miles than my duramax…so yeah. My truck is cheaper because it’s paid for and I’ll run it into the ground. I did pick up some mpg from the tuning I recently did.

I think your plan to look at a newer gm 1/2 is a good plan. My uncle just picked up a Silverado with a 5.3 and 10 speed. Pretty nice truck. And that Gen v 5.3 makes better power and torque than a stock LQ4.

 

[N-Smooth]

The only truck I see on the road that makes me feel like cheating on my truck is the new Ram halfie. Obviously I had a ‘12 Hemi so I’m biased but the new ones are just soooo nice. I’d have another one of those in a heartbeat if I hadn’t decided to step up the a Cummins 25hundo.

My BIL has the Sierra with the diesel and it’s a cool truck but nothing amazing. I agree with Dave about diesels. People typically spend thousands more for a diesel to get a couple mpg better and then get saddled with more expensive maintenance, fuel cost and just overall cost of ownership. You never get that money back from the 1-2 mpg gain.

 

[TRD270]

Don't recall do you still have your HD Chev? Why not tow with it, keep the F150 for a DD and off-roading since it does that job well? I'm following @Hickey 's pathish. Originally thinking a new F350 but probably going to go F250 with 7.3 gasser. DDing for me but since I only have to commute 4-5 times a month no biggie. For the time being I'll be holding onto the F150 for adventures, probably end up selling it later this year or next to use the money toward a 4wheel camper that will tame the 250 suspension a little bit not to rattle my teeth out. Jeremy turned me onto a dealer in Iowa that is doing 2% below invoice on them. Have a quote for a 350 just waiting for them to get back to me on a price for a 250 before I order.

Trying to future proof my towing needs figure a 250/350 will pull anything I'll ever own. Wanting a big block gasser with minimal electronic nanny devices as possible before the 7.3 is mandated out of existence and they make it semi self driving without the ability to order it without. Already more nanny devices coming on it "standard" than I prefer and only way to get rid of them is to order a base model. Unfortunately a few features I desire require XLT

 

[benjy]

I picked up a 2021 Custom Trail Boss last spring, and have already put 20k miles on it. My only input is I hope the interior on the higher trim models is a big step up over the “custom.” Mine is pretty terrible. Anything more than a few hours in the seat and I’m wishing I was in the JK, and that’s saying something The 6 speed with the 5.3 feels pretty clunky too.

 

[frieed]

Greg,
What octane fuel were you using when you overheated?
Mine has only overheated once (dash said reducing power due to temps). I was on the last stretch of the grade from Heber to Strawberry res. (I think 6-7%), the outside temp was 95*, total load was about #8500, and this was the only time I had ever put 93 octane in it. I've towed the same hill, trailer, etc but with 85 octane and had no issues. My theory is with higher octane gas the ECU leans the fuel out more since it can with no knock, you get a little better MPG and a little more HP and the temps climb just a bit more. Yep, the cooling system seems a little undersized, but I dragged my trailer all over the PNW on 85 octane fuel with no issues.

 

[Gravy]

I test drove a Dodge 1500 with the airbag suspension and no joke it rode nicer than a Chrysler 300 and those things are like a freaking limousine.

 

[Greg]

Old tundra gets poor gas mileage, and doesn’t tow as well as the ecoboost (as long as they don’t overheat) I’m on my third one, but I don’t tow much, I just like their old school simplicity and reliability, but I’ve enjoyed driving my ecoboosts more.

New tundra has pretty impressive specs - twin turbo with crazy torque/hp increases over older gen. And better mpgs as well. Plus, finally, a rear locker in the off road package. I’m not knowledgeable enough to know if they will have the same overheating problems as the ecoboosts over time, but maybe Toyota engineers know something Ford doesn’t?

I haven't looked into the new Tundra engine, honestly didn't even know that they were building a twin turbo engine. I just don't know that I can trust a new engine that hasn't been out for a couple years, with 100k+ miles put on by other people at this point. The Tundra has never been a truck that I've been excited about.

IMO guys that say they are getting a diesel for fuel economy and thereby cheaper ownership are fooling themselves. If you want the diesel, get the diesel and say that you want it because it is a diesel. I’ve owned my duramax for 7 years and had an older duramax for a couple years before that. I love how well it hauls heavy. But it hasn’t been without maintenance cost. I’ve done head gaskets and injectors.
Edit below sentence because I can’t complete a thought apparently. Plus added a funny.

Even if I hadn’t done those, the cost of an oil change and periodic fuel filter changes are still more expensive maintenance than a gasser. The fact that the fuel economy is maybe 1 or 2 mpg better doing DD duty is not enough justification to get a diesel. The only caveat is if you have a Cummings. Everyone knows they get 96.4 mpg towing 146k pounds up hill both ways in the winter. 😆
Edit/

I nearly sold my truck last summer to change out for a 1 ton gasser that is a 2014ish. Then I realized the market is ridiculous and I wasn’t going to pay nearly $40k for a gas truck that had more miles than my duramax…so yeah. My truck is cheaper because it’s paid for and I’ll run it into the ground. I did pick up some mpg from the tuning I recently did.

I think your plan to look at a newer gm 1/2 is a good plan. My uncle just picked up a Silverado with a 5.3 and 10 speed. Pretty nice truck. And that Gen v 5.3 makes better power and torque than a stock LQ4.

Believe me, I totally understand diesel ownership.... 3 Dodges w/ Cummins and about 5 different VW TDI's. I understand the added costs with repairs and maintenance! It would be nice to buy a new diesel 3/4 ton, but honestly that's overkill for our needs at this point.

The latest 5.3 is impressive, but I'd much rather have more displacement when we hook up the trailer. And if that 6.2 in a 1500 with the 10 speed can match or beat the EcoBoost with mileage, it's hardly a compromise.

Don't recall do you still have your HD Chev? Why not tow with it, keep the F150 for a DD and off-roading since it does that job well? I'm following @Hickey 's pathish. Originally thinking a new F350 but probably going to go F250 with 7.3 gasser. DDing for me but since I only have to commute 4-5 times a month no biggie. For the time being I'll be holding onto the F150 for adventures, probably end up selling it later this year or next to use the money toward a 4wheel camper that will tame the 250 suspension a little bit not to rattle my teeth out. Jeremy turned me onto a dealer in Iowa that is doing 2% below invoice on them. Have a quote for a 350 just waiting for them to get back to me on a price for a 250 before I order.

Trying to future proof my towing needs figure a 250/350 will pull anything I'll ever own. Wanting a big block gasser with minimal electronic nanny devices as possible before the 7.3 is mandated out of existence and they make it semi self driving without the ability to order it without. Already more nanny devices coming on it "standard" than I prefer and only way to get rid of them is to order a base model. Unfortunately a few features I desire require XLT

I do have the '09 2500 HD still, it was really bought as a 'work truck' when I was driving all over the West for work. I've had a job change and I'm back to working locally, the Chevy isn't really needed anymore. I'd like to sell it while used truck values are still high, DD the Gladiator and when we're ready, sell the EcoBoost before our new truck arrives, what ever it is. So selling 2 used trucks to buy one new one and have a small loan on it.

We were talking to Jeremy about the Ford 3/4 tons and the 7.3, I think it's a killer engine and a stump puller like no other, but the mileage is a pretty big hit as a DD.

I picked up a 2021 Custom Trail Boss last spring, and have already put 20k miles on it. My only input is I hope the interior on the higher trim models is a big step up over the “custom.” Mine is pretty terrible. Anything more than a few hours in the seat and I’m wishing I was in the JK, and that’s saying something The 6 speed with the 5.3 feels pretty clunky too.

That's good to know, we priced out a LTZ. After looking at 2021 Chevy interiors, they leave a bit to be desired. They seem to feel cheap, compared to the upper end Dodge & Ford interiors. Interesting observation with the 6 speed, I've had 2 GM 2500's with 6 speeds and every now & again, they'd act up and do some weird shifting. But I chalked that up to miles.... one had 315k on it when I sold it and the current 2500 is just over 200k.

 

[Hickey]

Of those choices, I would go with the 6.2. Keep it simple and stay away from turbos.

 

[Greg]

Greg,
What octane fuel were you using when you overheated?
Mine has only overheated once (dash said reducing power due to temps). I was on the last stretch of the grade from Heber to Strawberry res. (I think 6-7%), the outside temp was 95*, total load was about #8500, and this was the only time I had ever put 93 octane in it. I've towed the same hill, trailer, etc but with 85 octane and had no issues. My theory is with higher octane gas the ECU leans the fuel out more since it can with no knock, you get a little better MPG and a little more HP and the temps climb just a bit more. Yep, the cooling system seems a little undersized, but I dragged my trailer all over the PNW on 85 octane fuel with no issues.

85 and 91, added octane booster on the 2nd tank of 91 octane. Made no change in the overheating issues with either octane. There's a very obvious cooling issue with the EB and from what I could find after hours of research, it's quite common with higher mileage EB's and after changing out the usual (radiator, water pump, thermostat, etc) most owners are still having the same problem. On F150Forum one guy had the dealership replace all the cooling system parts, thousands of dollars in work, and no fix... and pretty much told him they didn't know what to do. I've read thread after thread trying to find the root cause before throwing parts at the issue, with no remedy to be found.

Our F150 was running stupid-hot, I could control the engine temps by downshifting, raising the RPM and lowering the boost pressure. It was crazy to watch the coolant temp drop by 15*'s... eventually the engine was in reduced power mode, still running silly hot, no more than 40 MPH in a 65 and getting 6 MPG. That was heading towards Nevada, coming out of Milford. I'd been running high octane for most of that trip, hoping it would help.... made no change. That trip ruined the F150 for me.

 

[Greg]

Of those choices, I would go with the 6.2. Keep it simple and stay away from turbos.

Yeah, that's where I'm at now.... just trying to see if I'm missing anything else that would fit our needs.

 

[Hickey]

Yeah, that's where I'm at now.... just trying to see if I'm missing anything else that would fit our needs.

Well, I think you need a Godzilla, but I've been told that I'm biased. 😂

 

[Greg]

Well, I think you need a Godzilla, but I've been told that I'm biased. 😂

If it got 18 MPG, Catherine would be all over it. She's the one that has to pay to fuel it up!

 

[Spork]

If it were me and the 6.2 pulls in what they claim that's where I'd go...

 

[mbryson]

@ebryson has a 5.0L F150 from 2011. 165k miles and that’s still a strong truck. Do the 5.0L come with the 10 speed?

 

[Greg]

If it were me and the 6.2 pulls in what they claim that's where I'd go...

I've been pretty damn impressed with my 6.0 engines in personal trucks and work trucks, they are simple, reliable and powerful. And with the 6 speed transmissions, get pretty respectable mileage. My '11 and '09 2500's with 6.0's and 6 speed autos seem to average 15-16 MPG and if driven right, would see 17-18.

 

[Hickey]

Do the 5.0L come with the 10 speed?

Yes

 

[mbryson]

Yes

I’d imagine that would be a capable beast when needed. Quite civilized when not needed?

 

[Greg]

@ebryson has a 5.0L F150 from 2011. 165k miles and that’s still a strong truck. Do the 5.0L come with the 10 speed?

The 10 speed was added in.... 2018, IIRC? I drove a 2017 F150 with the 6 speed and 2018 with the Coyote and 10 speed and it was just... ok. It seems very high strung, to me. It's pretty small displacement for the power output, IMO.... makes me concerned about longevity? I'd much rather have more cubes and torque for towing. I think you'd be revving the Coyote 5.0 pretty hard with a decent sized trailer behind it.