New Pope...

[Chiksic]

I think you should do what is right for yourself, without infringing on the rights and beliefs of your fellow man, while still staying true to yourself.

Exactly.

I'm not saying that churches should change. I'm simply saying they're not for me. Disagreeing with homosexuality and denying a homosexual the right to participate in ceremonies that are practically offered to anyone including non-members of that church are totally different and the latter is absurd.

 

[Hickey]

 

[Chiksic]

Just my opinon. That's the joy of forums.

 

[James K]

so because she doesn't think just like you shes wrong?

 

[Chiksic]

Apparently

 

[britney]

I heard he said they're not serving the sacrement to gays and lesbians.... right after he finished saying god loves everyone.... hmmm

My mom loves me, but she'll kick me right out of her house if I'm not acting appropriatley.

God loves Hitler, God loves Osama Bin Laden, he even loves Satan.
That doesn't mean he's proud of what they've done.
If the God of the catholic church expects his members to act a certain way or not disrespect him by taking his sacred sacrament, then that should be respected.

Homosexuals are well aware of their religious teachings no matter what church, and if their life is not accepted by that church why be involved with it??
Worship how you choose and where you are accepted, and don't expect others to conform.

...

I'm not saying that churches should change. I'm simply saying they're not for me. Disagreeing with homosexuality and denying a homosexual the right to participate in ceremonies that are practically offered to anyone including non-members of that church are totally different and the latter is absurd.

Thought #1-If your not saying that churches should change than why are you even bringing it up????

Thought #2-What's really absurd is wanting to be invovled in ceremonies/sacraments in a church that knowingly looks down on the way you live.
Why would anyone want to do that?? (attention or spite)

Thought #3-Just because the ceremonies are available to everyone, doesn't mean everyone should be participating.

 

[Chiksic]

Thought #1-If your not saying that churches should change than why are you even bringing it up????

Because this thread is about the new pope and what he said. I brought it up to discuss, that's the freaking point of a forum. Why do people bring up topics about a dude's friend being a tranny? Because it's something to talk about. Same deal here.

Thought #2-What's really absurd is wanting to be invovled in ceremonies/sacraments in a church that knowingly looks down on the way you live.
Why would anyone want to do that?? (attention or spite)

No, it isn't absurd. One could agree with everything the church stands for, and totally believe they're right while still living a life style that is inconsistent with the beliefs. What this specific issue comes down to is if you think homosexuality is a chioce or not. If you think people choose to be gay then your point makes sense, but I don't believe that. In fact, I know a couple people personally who believe the mormon church is true AND they're gay. It's not absurd. It's having two somewhat conflicting beliefs, but people constantly have conflicting beliefs.

Thought #3-Just because the ceremonies are available to everyone, doesn't mean everyone should be participating.

True. That's for each religion to decide. I just think it was odd of the pope to make that statement that they won't be allowing homosexuals to take the sacrament when the last time I checked anyone could take it. This wasn't even my point at all, it was a tangent... Like ok, they say they're gonna do this, but how? Just a tangent of speculation that is like the step after my main point.

 

[ALF]

A sin is a sin in Gods eyes. And last I checked Homosexuality is a sin. I don't believe its right for any church to withhold the sacrament to someone for the act of any sin. Thats just my opinion and I'm sure some are wondering, I do have a religious affiliation but it is neither LDS or Catholic.

One thing especially in this state is the the way people weight sins. Man measured sins God sees them as equally bad.

Discuss :greg:

 

[mbryson]

................Discuss :greg:

Not that I agree or disagree with what you said, but as a moderator, I HATE RELIGIOUS THREADS....... If this thread can stay 'mature' and not degenerate into a 'p!ssing match' that's cool, but if it goes 'too far', it'll get locked.......{the sad thing is, we 'could' all learn a little from each other's religions/beliefs, IF we could discuss it and not get so defensive about our own. One of the best classes I took at the U was 'Religious diversity in Utah'. I thought it would be kind of a joke, but I got a lot of personal insight into 4 other Christian churches (Greek Orthodox, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran--thus giving insight into other sects) and honestly appreciate each one for what it is. It was kinda funky to be a liberal LDS kid checking out the Baptist church, but it was a good experience. From what I can tell from my exposure, is if you live the Christian 'Golden Rule', you should be in pretty good shape in any afterlife no matter what religion you are.......Buddhist, Moslem or Christian or ???}


....That said, congrats to the Catholic church on their new Pope. He seems very accepted by the congregation, and I wish only the best......

 

[James K]

we 'could' all learn a little from each other's religions/beliefs, IF we could discuss it and not get so defensive about our own.


if you live the Christian 'Golden Rule', you should be in pretty good shape in any afterlife no matter what religion you are.......Buddhist, Moslem or Christian or ???}

truer statements have never been typed/said.

 

[Chiksic]

truer statements have never been typed/said.

*nod*

 

[Hickey]

so because she doesn't think just like you shes wrong?

Read into it whatever you like. That's also the joy of forums. This means: It's pointless trying to explain this to you, as you clearly didn't grasp my last statement.

 

[Hickey]

For clarification, Chicsic, please give us a link to where you heard or read your Pope quote.

 

[Chiksic]

he was the leader of church clergy and doctrine before being the pope and has written numerous articles on it. he asked nuns to stop giving the sacrament to lesbians and asked priests to stop giving the sacrament to any homosexual.

 

[carnage]

I'm sure you still can take it, as long as you are not advertising your sexual preference right there in mass. He probably meant that they would not condone or endorse Gay people partaking of the sacrament. Sacriledge (SP?) comes into play. It clearly states in the bible that homosexuality is an abomination. Should the Church change it's policies to reflect modern society? That would be stupid.

Yeah and a few hundred years ago they took passages in the bible literaly and hence jusitifed slavery. The Bible has never meant to be directly interpruted, a vast majority of the stuff in the Bible is now known to be false. The authors of the Bible were real people, and a lot of the original books have been taken out because they go against church doctrine. People who quote the Bible and say well God made the Bible so everything in it is true are missing the point. The Bible is simply a medium the early christians used to express their faith. It is still read because the morals of the stories stil hold true, and its a book that gets the reader thinking about God. Don't hide behind the Bible people, God by official church teaching gave humans the freedom of choice and gave them a conscience to interprut his will.

 

[Hickey]

Yeah and a few hundred years ago they took passages in the bible literaly and hence jusitifed slavery. The Bible has never meant to be directly interpruted, a vast majority of the stuff in the Bible is now known to be false. The authors of the Bible were real people, and a lot of the original books have been taken out because they go against church doctrine. People who quote the Bible and say well God made the Bible so everything in it is true are missing the point. The Bible is simply a medium the early christians used to express their faith. It is still read because the morals of the stories stil hold true, and its a book that gets the reader thinking about God. Don't hide behind the Bible people, God by official church teaching gave humans the freedom of choice and gave them a conscience to interprut his will.

Hide behind the bible?
Welcome to the forum. Please introduce yourself.

 

[Hickey]

he was the leader of church clergy and doctrine before being the pope and has written numerous articles on it. he asked nuns to stop giving the sacrament to lesbians and asked priests to stop giving the sacrament to any homosexual.

Do you have a link or a source? I'm just trying to help you see a different point of view.

 

[carnage]

I believe that is exactly one reason why people like religion.

For instance, say the Catholic church decided to allow it's members to have an abortion. Should they do that because of a current trend in society? Should they allow their members to use birth control because of society? What about sex between man and animal? When does that become acceptable for the church? If it does, then what would be the point of church?

I agree, however, they should not stand by every doctrine that exists. Times change, going by traditions 2,000 years old isn't very practical. I do not beleive they should go liberal on us, but the church just barely accepted evolutoin as "more then a theory." And a few hundred years ago they finaly gave up their standing on slavery being acceptable as long as its "justified". The church teachings that should be conservently taught are the ones with universal and timeless appeal. Treat every human being with dignity and respect, that is the focal point of the Catholic religoin. Well gays are humans too, and as such, by their own preachings, should be treated with respect and dignity as well. If God created human beings in his imagine and to do his will on earth, how can he possibly judge someone for just being who they are? And now the classic counter-arguement is "well serial killers feel like they need to kill its just who they are, should they be shunned?" First off there is no comparison. Gays are not taking lifes, they are not robbing other human beings of their dignity, serial killers are. All of the comandments of the church are based on that simple rule, treat every human life with dignity and respect. By being gay, how I wonder are you robbing someone of respect or dignity? You aren't. Too often people use conservative religion as a way to justify hate, and missunderstandings of other peoples life styles. ***** forgave all, you arent following his will by saying gays are sinful and should be shunned, love and compasion people.

 

[spencurai]

Insert obligatory..."Arguing about religion on the internet is like running in the special olympics..." line here!!

 

[carnage]

Hide behind the bible?
Welcome to the forum. Please introduce yourself.

I go to a Catholic school, we were having a discussion on homosexuality, and numerous people brought up that exact same sentence "the Bible says gays are abominations" Well if you remember a time in our history, people used the Bible to justify slavery, they even had the odacity to try to convert those they were treating unjustly to their religion! It like Hitler killing 6 million Jews then afterwards walking up to a Jew and going "Hey this is my book, convert to my following!" When I say people "hide behind the bible" I mean that too often people quote from Bible passages like they were quoting God in an interview.