Oh, wtf.....House votes to criminalize the Internet, 409 to 2

[Brett]

Child pornography is already monitored by ISP's, as stated in the article. This is just another form of censorship. Just like when you walk into 7-11 or the grocery store and they have something covering Cosmo or Maxim. They will never be able to enforce the law, because like anything else, there are always ways around the technology. Don't expect the government to subsidize them either. It's not just hotels, it's also truck stops, cafes, office buildings, even the damn airport. It's too far out of their control. On top of that, how are they going to enforce this? It's another example of election year legislation. Look at me, I'm doing something for America

 

[Brett]

What's to prevent your neighbor from saying that since you posted pics of your 2 year old kid in the tub online that it offends them? Then you get a fine for 150k? Who determines what type of pics are illegal now? I wonder why hentai is considered illegal. It's just cartoon porn.....nothing worse that real porn.

 

[waynehartwig]

Child pornography is already monitored by ISP's, as stated in the article. This is just another form of censorship. Just like when you walk into 7-11 or the grocery store and they have something covering Cosmo or Maxim. They will never be able to enforce the law, because like anything else, there are always ways around the technology. Don't expect the government to subsidize them either. It's not just hotels, it's also truck stops, cafes, office buildings, even the damn airport. It's too far out of their control. On top of that, how are they going to enforce this? It's another example of election year legislation. Look at me, I'm doing something for America

To me censorship (if that's what you are calling it) when you are turning in a pedophile or etc is ok....

And having the nudy mags covered up so my 10 year old son doesn't see the cover, is ok too. They are forced to keep nudy mags behind the counter out of sight for that reason. Some of these chick mags get pretty risque' and should behind the counter as well. But the magazine makers fought it and compromised with a cover. To me that's an acceptable compromise, even for the nudy mags. I can control my son well enough that he won't be taking the mag off the rack and looking at it. But I can't keep him from looking if they aren't hidden. I can't force him to always look forward with blinders on.

As for the rest - ie how can they prove it. I agree... How? But I'm sure this is more for the one that knows about it and is found to know than the one that has it goign on and really has nothing in place to monitor what is viewed.

 

[Brett]

And having the nudy mags covered up so my 10 year old son doesn't see the cover, is ok too. They are forced to keep nudy mags behind the counter out of sight for that reason. Some of these chick mags get pretty risque' and should behind the counter as well. But the magazine makers fought it and compromised with a cover. To me that's an acceptable compromise, even for the nudy mags. I can control my son well enough that he won't be taking the mag off the rack and looking at it. But I can't keep him from looking if they aren't hidden. I can't force him to always look forward with blinders on.

As for the rest - ie how can they prove it. I agree... How? But I'm sure this is more for the one that knows about it and is found to know than the one that has it goign on and really has nothing in place to monitor what is viewed.

As to the nudey mags (to me, that'd be Playboy or something, but whatever) how is it any worse than taking your 10 year old to the pool and there are women in bikini's walking all over the place? Or the beach? It's not different to me. We don't see people complaining about the other people there (but I am sure someone will.)

Thoughts?

 

[waynehartwig]

What's to prevent your neighbor from saying that since you posted pics of your 2 year old kid in the tub online that it offends them? Then you get a fine for 150k? Who determines what type of pics are illegal now? I wonder why hentai is considered illegal. It's just cartoon porn.....nothing worse that real porn.

There are standards put in place. A picture of your 2 year old in the tub is fine. A picture focusing on your 2 year old sons penis is not. But there are standards and just one picture pushing the limit isn't going to get you tossed in jail. You need to set a precidence for kiddie porn before your arrested for it. Buying DVD's full of kiddie porn is.

 

[waynehartwig]

As to the nudey mags (to me, that'd be Playboy or something, but whatever) how is it any worse than taking your 10 year old to the pool and there are women in bikini's walking all over the place? Or the beach? It's not different to me. We don't see people complaining about the other people there (but I am sure someone will.)

Thoughts?

Good point... The only thing I can is I have never seen that at a public pool, so maybe there are standards in place taht the pool operators enforce. ....Cuz believe me, I'd like to see some of thos skimpy bikini's In 20 years, I'll be a dirty old man. Now I'm just dirty

 

[Brett]

There are standards put in place. A picture of your 2 year old in the tub is fine. A picture focusing on your 2 year old sons penis is not. But there are standards and just one picture pushing the limit isn't going to get you tossed in jail. You need to set a precidence for kiddie porn before your arrested for it. Buying DVD's full of kiddie porn is.

Ah, but who determines that? There seem to be so many people in this country now that are offended by anything in the slightest. I read about a mall that forced it's Victoria's Secret to remove their mannequins from the windows because it offended some "larger" women.

Too much in my opinion.

 

[Brett]

Good point... The only thing I can is I have never seen that at a public pool, so maybe there are standards in place taht the pool operators enforce. ....Cuz believe me, I'd like to see some of thos skimpy bikini's In 20 years, I'll be a dirty old man. Now I'm just dirty

Hmmm....I see it all the time at the pools here in SLC. You must have gone to the wrong pools

 

[waynehartwig]

Ah, but who determines that? There seem to be so many people in this country now that are offended by anything in the slightest. I read about a mall that forced it's Victoria's Secret to remove their mannequins from the windows because it offended some "larger" women.

Too much in my opinion.

The people that investigate kiddie porn, beastialitiy, etc. have them in place. I don't investigate it, so I'm not completely up on it and my wife only hears about it in conversations, so she can't remember all of the standards.

As for the offense stuff, they need to get over it and go on a diet. That is BS and the people at Vickie's need to grow some balls and tell the fatties to go get a donut. But this is a completely different topic from illegal photos to some skinny manequine.

 

[waynehartwig]

Hmmm....I see it all the time at the pools here in SLC. You must have gone to the wrong pools

Must be! ...Lovin' the mormon's in their non mormon swim wear

 

[bobdog]

If you know about anything illegal, you are supposed to turn them in. That goes for everything, including minor things.

Besides, what kind of person would look the other way if they knew their neighbor was a pedophile!??!?!!! That's WTF!

I remember reading 1984 and thinking what a terribile thing it would be to live like that. I am puzzled Wayne. You seem to be in favor of moving this country in the direction of a police state. Why are you so afraid of the people that you see the need for more and more state control over every thing including there private lives. Be carefull what you wish for you may one day have Big Brother in your bedroom and you might not like it. Of course you have nothing to hide, or do you?

Nobody I know would not turn in a pedophile, big difference between that and sticking your nose into the "minor things" that are really none of your business even if they are technichly illigal.

 

[waynehartwig]

I remember reading 1984 and thinking what a terribile thing it would be to live like that. I am puzzled Wayne. You seem to be in favor of moving this country in the direction of a police state. Why are you so afraid of the people that you see the need for more and more state control over every thing including there private lives. Be carefull what you wish for you may one day have Big Brother in your bedroom and you might not like it. Of course you have nothing to hide, or do you?

Nobody I know would not turn in a pedophile, big difference between that and sticking your nose into the "minor things" that are really none of your business even if they are technichly illigal.

I'm all for the less government (including no govt sponsored things like welfare, and etc. but thats another topic) the better, as it seems like anything the government touches turns to ****. But because too many people now days don't want to get involved, the government is forcing the issue. I don't think most people that know about kiddie porn know what they are looking at to do anything about it (ignorance), but there are some that just flat out don't want to get involved. Then there are some that just don't care what they may be doing to codle/enable them - ie offering free internet access in your restaurant and not monitoring what is going on. Bottom line, it's your internet access and you are responsible for anything that is up/downloaded. Like Brett said, ISP's monitor activity and so do the feds. Feds have ton's of spoofing websites out there to catch preditors and they know who is connected. So it comes down to is it the business checking out illegal pictures or is it the general public? The businesses say it's not them, that it's their cutomers. There are tons of illegal things going on at these places and illegal photos are only a small portion of it. The owners may not be aware of what is going on, but it's their place to know as they are responsible for what is going on.

It's just more people that turn their head to everyone else and thing that is going on. For example, there is a guy up here that got caugt up in this big snow storm we had a few weeks ago. He spun out off the road. Nobody would stop and help. It was out in the middle of nowhere and he ended up freezing to death. Had someone got involved, he would still be alive today. Used to be cops would pull over and help people out. Now they don't stop at all, unless you may cause an unsafe condition. It's all bullshit. 50 years ago you would have a guy giving you his jacket, gas and money if you needed it as well as helping you and you would be so thankful you would pay it all back and send him a thank you note. Now people won't even stop. How many of you know all of your neighbors? How about at least 2 houses around you? (I know everyone on my street. First, last name and phone number. I know which ones have kids and when the kids are out playing ball or whatever in the street I know whos kids they are.) It's just more proof that people have their own lives and don't want to be bothered with yours and won't take the time out of their life to help someone when needed. It's nothing about the govt. taking over, it's about people not being human beings anymore.

 

[Brett]

Have to agree with you there Wayne. American's these days care more for themselves than about anything around them. There's a reason that we had a generation called the "Greatest Generation." Even my parents generation was so much more personal. My parents are the same as you, they know the people around their neighborhood and interact with them. I think that part of it today might be that it's so much easier to send and email or text than to actually interact with a live person. Why walk next door when you can just use your text ability. People just don't care.

Personally, I think that what the goverment should do should be to work on more important matters, maybe like stopping the frivilous lawsauits that people file. I agree on goverment programs as well. Limit time use if anything. People that are on welfare for their entire life, well, sorry but that's a person that just never tried to better themselves.

I dunno,......random ramblings here. There so many things wrong in this country and it's just getting worse.......

 

[piecesnparts]

I agree for less gov, this was a big waste of a time. The could have focused on more important things. But its also not that bad. secure your connection at home and if you are a business owner that wants to have an open connection then use a proxy, it will filter sites that have that material and no worries. The reason they did it is because everyone would use the cop out. Someone must have got on my connection and they could not prove otherwise.

 

[waynehartwig]

I agree for less gov, this was a big waste of a time. The could have focused on more important things. But its also not that bad. secure your connection at home and if you are a business owner that wants to have an open connection then use a proxy, it will filter sites that have that material and no worries. The reason they did it is because everyone would use the cop out. Someone must have got on my connection and they could not prove otherwise.

I believe your right and this is their way of saying 'ok, maybe, but you will be accountable or pay'.