pinion/driveline angle

[KToy]

ok so i setup my rear end and i have a very bad pinion ( my fault)

my pinion points 9 degrees above my driveline. causeing some binding issues.

so i bought some shims as a very very temporary fix for this weekend as i dont use shims unless i have too.


so question is.

my friend thinks my driveline is fine and that it binds because of the axle wrap i am getting. i never got axle wrap before until i shortend my wheel base and went from 37's to 42's.

he thinks it wraps because of the bigger tires. i dont know why it wraps but i do know my driveline binds. he thinks that the angle is great for clearance and all i need to do is a track bar/ladder bar to fix the problem.

well i think diffrent. since i shortend the wheel base i do have minimal clearance at the pinion/yoke area. iv decided to move turn my axle down and reweld on some purches and then i want to run the rear 1350 super joint from tom woods to give me that lil bit of clearance.

so for the question.


is my friend right ?? is that a good pinion angle to have? will a trackbar solve my problem ??

basicaly he thinks he is right and i think i am right....

whats the best answer/solution to the problem

his way (trackbar)

my way ( turn my axle down and buy a super joint from tom woods)

also i might add its bending the bolts on my 14b rear so i had to grind them off and pull them out. hence the need for the shims so i can go to moab this weekend.


i will fix the issue after moab.

 

[way2nosty]

what exactly are the symptoms of the "severe binding issues"

to answer some general questions, axle wrap is caused by leverage, so bigger tires tend to cause more axle wrap - more leverage.

Ultimatly, a track bar or a triangulated 3-4 link is the only way to completely eliminate Axlewrap and wheelhop,

Pinion angle should be within 4 degrees of the output shaft angle of the t-case for optimum driveline performance. If it isn't, you would be wise to add a double cardan driveshaft, otherwise you will see some vibration.

More then likely, if you shortened your wheelbase, you shortened your driveline, I would put money it is out of phase, The lobes of the drivelines need to match exactly or it will cause some binding issues.

 

[BCGPER]

You don't mention if it's a CV rear or just U joints. Either way, angle is critical, and wrap will bust it for sure. And your thiking about heading to Moab? Either way, I'd be in the garage fixing that!

ok so i setup my rear end and i have a very bad pinion ( my fault)

my pinion points 9 degrees above my driveline. causeing some binding issues.

so i bought some shims as a very very temporary fix for this weekend as i dont use shims unless i have too.


so question is.

my friend thinks my driveline is fine and that it binds because of the axle wrap i am getting. i never got axle wrap before until i shortend my wheel base and went from 37's to 42's.

he thinks it wraps because of the bigger tires. i dont know why it wraps but i do know my driveline binds. he thinks that the angle is great for clearance and all i need to do is a track bar/ladder bar to fix the problem.

well i think diffrent. since i shortend the wheel base i do have minimal clearance at the pinion/yoke area. iv decided to move turn my axle down and reweld on some purches and then i want to run the rear 1350 super joint from tom woods to give me that lil bit of clearance.

so for the question.


is my friend right ?? is that a good pinion angle to have? will a trackbar solve my problem ??

basicaly he thinks he is right and i think i am right....

whats the best answer/solution to the problem

his way (trackbar)

my way ( turn my axle down and buy a super joint from tom woods)

also i might add its bending the bolts on my 14b rear so i had to grind them off and pull them out. hence the need for the shims so i can go to moab this weekend.


i will fix the issue after moab.

 

[KToy]

i have a toyota upper doube cardon joint and a 1350 lower joint

toyota tcase to 14bolt rear.

and i am fixing it. but im useing shims until after this weekend.. if i get time to fix it i will.

i use to have a 123 inch wheel base. now i have 114. no axle wrap before.

now i have axle wrap with bigger tires. and yes i shortend my driveline.

 

[BCGPER]

Point the pinion straight towadrs the output, but the soft rear springs require a ladder bar. Sorry, I know you didn't want to hear that.

i have a toyota upper doube cardon joint and a 1350 lower joint

toyota tcase to 14bolt rear.

and i am fixing it. but im useing shims until after this weekend.. if i get time to fix it i will.

i use to have a 123 inch wheel base. now i have 114. no axle wrap before.

now i have axle wrap with bigger tires. and yes i shortend my driveline.

 

[KToy]

i dont mind makeing a ladder bar. the rear springs are 63 chevy springs.

its just wierd i up the tires and i get axle wrap. but with 37's which are not small by any means dont have any axle wrap.

but ya i am fixing my pinion i was told pinion 3 degrees above driveline for rockcrawling but im doing it at 0 degrees.

then if it still wraps.

4link with airshox or track bar. but i want the right pinion angle.

he thinks my pinion angle is fine. just wanted someone to confirm with me that 9 degrees above the driveline is not desirable.

 

[Shawn]

Your buddy is smokin crack.

Point the pinon at the T case just like BC said, that is the correct way to do it. With Chevy 63's and SOA and no traction bar you are asking for problems. The shims are worthless, I wouldn't even waist my time to puting those in.

 

[KToy]

im useing shims just to get the pinion pointed at the tcase for this weekend.

i know ill have axle wrap still but i want to go to moab and its the fastest fix. im going to try and get new perches on and pointed at the tcase


ill figure out what i want to do about a trackbar/4link.

 

[Greg]

It's only monday... quit talkin' about fixing it the wrong way & go work on fixing it the right way. Cut your perches off & rotate the axle. It shouldn't take that long, I've done that same thing before in a few hrs.

 

[Herzog]

It's only monday... quit talkin' about fixing it the wrong way & go work on fixing it the right way. Cut your perches off & rotate the axle. It shouldn't take that long, I've done that same thing before in a few hrs.

Agreed. Shouldn't take more than 2 hours to cut the perches off and reweld them on. Do it right before you go to moab and have to deal with other problems, like split or spit shims.

 

[Coreshot]

One question, KToy, Do your 63s still have the thick overload spring on the bottom, or did you remove it for better flex?

I have the same setup as you- 63" Chevs, 114" WB, and no traction bar. While I'm sure that I have some wrap, I have never had it bind. Instead of removing the overload spring, just cut it down to about 12-14" long. This will help alleviate the wrap, but still allow for flex. This does NOT remove the need for a traction bar, but it helps.

 

[KToy]

removed overload. i thought about putting it back in but i want the flex.

so i guess ill chop it down and throw it back in to help.

and ill go buy some perches today and reweld them on so that i dont have any issues in moab this weekend.


i am crunched for time as i have some other issues as far as brakes and steering but ill get it all done in time.

thanks for the input.

 

[I Lean]

TRACTION BAR. Lemme repeat....tracTION bar--NOT track bar. Track bar = panhard bar, completely different thing than a traction bar.

Now that that's out of the way, you have leaf springs, right? That means you have axle wrap. It may not have hindered you as much before since you had a ridicu-long wheelbase and smaller tires, but it still existed. You're just more aware of it now.

 

[KToy]

thanks carl... and yes i was saying track bar sorry.


k so here is the plan


rotate my axle again but now that i have my driveline i will get it right and im doing it at 0 degrees so its pointed right at the tcase.

then i will build a traction bar.

thanks for the input i guess me and my friend were both right.

im also still going to run the super joint just in case i need some more clearance in the ujoint area.

 

[I Lean]

thanks carl... and yes i was saying track bar sorry.

It's not just you, that's just where my frustration was directed at that moment. Kinda a pet peeve of mine right there....rampant mis-labeling of parts on the 'net.

so here is the plan


rotate my axle again but now that i have my driveline i will get it right and im doing it at 0 degrees so its pointed right at the tcase.

then i will build a traction bar.

thanks for the input i guess me and my friend were both right.

im also still going to run the super joint just in case i need some more clearance in the ujoint area.

Post pics when you're done!

 

[KToy]

yes well i do it all the time.

as for my pinion

its at 17 degrees as is my driveline... so its fixed as of tonight.


as for a traction bar. it will be made after this trip to moab as will the double bobbed bed and exo cage.


but ya my friend still thinks i was dumb for moving my pinion down.

 

[d-krawler]

i wanna see pix when we were in mini moab it did'nt seem like it was binding, but you were getting some serious axle wrap. when a swap out my 56 chevy's for my 63 chevys i'm just gonna leave the front half of the over load? but still use my same TRACTION bar. hope it works.

 

[KToy]

after i fixed my pinion angle i did not have as much axle wrap in moab.

just so you know.

 

[Herzog]

after i fixed my pinion angle i did not have as much axle wrap in moab.

just so you know.

Pinion angle has nothing to do with axle wrap. It might make it more noticeable as far as binding up the joint, but it doesn't change the amount of wrap you will have.

Just so you know.

 

[James K]

Pinion angle has nothing to do with axle wrap. It might make it more noticeable as far as binding up the joint, but it doesn't change the amount of wrap you will have.

Just so you know.

exactly what I was thinking.