Pivot blocks
- Thread starter Skyetone
- Start date
i think he is talkind more along the lines of a pivot spring perch. it is a spring perch that has a pivot built into it in the same linear direction as the spring pack (pivot line is front to back so it pivots side to side). this is supposed to help with leaf spring bind.
I have a three point bar already. I wanted to four link right out of the guns but the gas tank fubared that idea. If you look close at the pic you can see it. It seemed ok at low speed. on the road it is a little loose on turns or if i swing the steering wheel to get the ass a moovin.
a three point bar really does a poor job of correcting excess lateral movement of the axle meaning left to right movement. it is great for axle wrap and i really need one of those. here is a link of a good design for a panhard bar if you havent built one already, spidertrax makes a great design that i am sure could be adapted to fit a toy.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Skyetone- How do you like your Buggy Leafs? I think I need to ditch my Double Shackle setup in exchange for Buggies. Did you get massive wheel hop w/o the traction bar? Does your Trac. Bar have a shackle on the hard-mount end?
the big problem with buggy leafs and double shackles is the propensity to bend main leafs more easily than just a regular shackle. Greg when you inverted your double shackle you probably got really close to bending your main leaf. i have talked to a lot of people and they say to weld on some sort of stop block to keep them fron inverting. i watched parker wreck a main leaf down at delta because he slid back on his double shackle and whacked a boulder. it didn't look like he was too appreciative of the shackle design at that point. i also talked to the stumphs down in delta about their buggy leafs and they always kept them bolted up because they found that matching flex front to rear was more important than massive amounts of droop. lets open this up for comment and see what different people think. i know there are different situations where each of these ideas are good and bad. please share. i myself have double shackles on the back of my sammy out of necessity. my rear springs are longer and a double shackle makes it so i dont have to relocate my spring perches to accomadate a longer spring. i have talked to a lot of people and i get pretty much even splits as far as like and not like.
Having experimented w/ double shackles over the years I've come to a conclusion... they are one of THE WORST investment/mod I've ever done. The rear axle was constantly walkin' up underneath my rig, bendin' main leafs EVERY trip I took. Try backin' up a boulder or a wall when those damn things open up... all that leverage goes straight to your leaf springs. Instead of your tire diggin' up the rock, your axle just walks straight under your rig and it tries to tear the leaf spring mount right off the frame. (I've probably been through 5 or 6 sets of springs in the last year alone!!) They open and close under load causin' wheel hop, especially on the steep stuff... and I have a very good traction bar. The best thing I ever did w/ my shackles was weld them shut!
I have never personally run buggy springs/ 3/4 elliptical but I have seen them work and they have some of the same characteristics as the double shackle set-ups. I would think if set up w/ a wishbone or triangulated 4-link type suspension it might help eliminate some of these problems.
I have never personally run buggy springs/ 3/4 elliptical but I have seen them work and they have some of the same characteristics as the double shackle set-ups. I would think if set up w/ a wishbone or triangulated 4-link type suspension it might help eliminate some of these problems.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
I know either of these aren't the best choice, if I do go to Buggies, they will be a bolt down type. I do want flex for the flat, twisty stuff but I dislike the wheel hop that is produced during steep climbs. If I had all kinds of cash I would have Coilovers and be done with it, but, I'm not able to spend $$$ like that. I don't think I was near bending a spring, honestly. The Chevy leaf I have on the back are HELLA THICK and as much droop as I have been getting, the Inversion wasn't too much of a surprise. I never had a need to add some kind of stop to it, because nobody I read about or talked to had inverted their Double Shackle.
I have been comtemplating a rear Coil Spring swap, so that I would have a quality 4 link for NO TRACTION ISSUES and a killer departure angle..........but thats TONS of work and time that I don't have right now. In the meantime, I'll work with what I have.
My buggies are to me a waist of time. (so far)
I put a thinner leaf than stock so fkin long that I should get MILES of traction. I also run all-pro in the rear. well even though my travel is the same F&R i only pull 5 out of the buggie in normal surcimstances . I also only had probs when I tried to get the shackle to have some angle. It would buckle underneath itself. Now that I am almost virtical it is ok. It was alot of work to me fo 5 inches. I alsop trimmed all the bumpstops and that for the buggie length. If you ran short it would be "easy". I triangulated the torque bar. It is 5/8 heimed and shackled. Seems good for hop. Always had hop with stock springs. None now. even tried in lil moab. I hope the pivot will relece the binding the buggie gets. From where the binding gets I don't know. But it's there. I now cannot test the pivots tell the wheel spacers get here. I can however tell it works to a certain extent. But if they don't increase articulation I pull em. They are wierd on the road. I actually gotta build a lock tonight before wheeling.BTW this is normal buggie droop.
I put a thinner leaf than stock so fkin long that I should get MILES of traction. I also run all-pro in the rear. well even though my travel is the same F&R i only pull 5 out of the buggie in normal surcimstances . I also only had probs when I tried to get the shackle to have some angle. It would buckle underneath itself. Now that I am almost virtical it is ok. It was alot of work to me fo 5 inches. I alsop trimmed all the bumpstops and that for the buggie length. If you ran short it would be "easy". I triangulated the torque bar. It is 5/8 heimed and shackled. Seems good for hop. Always had hop with stock springs. None now. even tried in lil moab. I hope the pivot will relece the binding the buggie gets. From where the binding gets I don't know. But it's there. I now cannot test the pivots tell the wheel spacers get here. I can however tell it works to a certain extent. But if they don't increase articulation I pull em. They are wierd on the road. I actually gotta build a lock tonight before wheeling.BTW this is normal buggie droop.
Well the tests are back. I went to lil moab and tried em. They work well. I don't have spacers so I ate my drivers tire really bad on my buggie bolts. Didn't eat pass side though. REALLY wierd. I wonder if my offset is the same in my JY rims. I don't get that issue at all. I also had issues with body roll REALLY BAD. Both on and off pavement it leans really bad. I got rid of all the tention/friction that keep the pack together with the axle. I tried to cheesmo weld a bolt to have as a lockout but they broke on the road durring two different turns. I also noticed that the truck didn't seem to want to go back to square. It almost liked to lean one way or the other. Made it kinda tippy a few times. Possibly helping when i did tip.(see Trips ) I think the final outcome is that I will toss em out. I wanna see after I get my spacers if my thoery is right about the buggie binding, but after that I don't think it is worth the hassle of the lean, too unstable. I can deal with lifting a tire, but when you lean comming down an obstical have to straiten up to hit the next one and don't its kinda spookie!!
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Thats good experimentation SKYE. I can see how the road manners would really suffer with this setup. I could see your buggies letting your axle walk up some when you were attacking the steep climbs that were too slippery to get up. When you would back up they would pull away from your frame quite a bit. Is seems like an angled shackle that is firmly attatched to the frame might be the best all around set up. I do really like your trac bar and will probably roll something similar for my pile.
Sorry I missed the flop!
Sorry I missed the flop!
check out this mix between a buggy leaf and a revolver shackle?!? this thing is strange!!! you might have to cut and paste because of the wrap around.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=397118#post397118
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=397118#post397118