Project car; 1973 Camaro Z28 clone

[Gravy]

You building it to Autocross?

 

[Greg]

You building it to Autocross?

Not specifically, mostly want it to handle very well... with the possibility of running at MMP in their Wide Open Wednesday's, if I get the chance.

 

[rholbrook]

When it's motor time, let me know. I have a great LS connection

 

[Greg]

When it's motor time, let me know. I have a great LS connection

:thumbs:

 

[LT.]

Holy hell... normally aspirated? That's impressive... I'd love to hear the list of components! :freak: I love bench racing and hearing what other people have done.

Yep. I cheated a bit though. I was playing around on another web site and nearly copied that race shops build sheet. It took me nearly eight years to build as parts are so expensive. The numbers are corrected for sea level so, please don't think it is all that. I will dig up the parts sheet and include it when I get home.

LT.

 

[Hickey]

As far as the roof and quarters go, I'd pay a pro to do that work as well. Mid summer is the slowest season for collision shops, and they are usually looking pretty hard for work.

 

[Greg]

Yep. I cheated a bit though. I was playing around on another web site and nearly copied that race shops build sheet. It took me nearly eight years to build as parts are so expensive. The numbers are corrected for sea level so, please don't think it is all that. I will dig up the parts sheet and include it when I get home.

LT.

No harm in that, let them do the homework and you get a proven engine.

As far as the roof and quarters go, I'd pay a pro to do that work as well. Mid summer is the slowest season for collision shops, and they are usually looking pretty hard for work.

Good info! I've been wondering how interested a body shop would be in a job like this. All I would want is to have the panels replaced and welded in, I'd take care of the rest.

Replacing the full quarters scare me, I was looking at it closer tonight and there is enough good quarter panel there that a few patch panels top & bottom should take care of the big rusty places without needing to take off the entire quarter panel. My biggest concern is using repro panels and having them fit not quite right. At least the rusty panels fit, they just need patches.

I was reading a thread on a roof panel replacement and it honestly doesn't look that scary. The joints on the A & B pillar would take some time, but after reading about it, I think I could handle it.

 

[Greg]

OK... we finally dragged the car home today. The pics in the first post were from the Craigslist ad. On the way home I stopped by the car wash and blasted old leaves and tree-related gunk from the nooks & crannies all over the car. Pressure washing was great fun, since it was about 20*'s outside. Some of the paint came off, revealing about 4 different layers.

I tried to get a bunch of pics before the tear down, but had already pulled out the seats that weren't bolted down. My biggest concern was getting to the floor and making sure it wasn't rusted thru. The carpet came out, the tar paper/insulation was in good shape in most places, but the actual footwells had been holding water that leaked in past the doors weatherstripping for who knows how long. The carpet in the trunk was nasty, but the sheetmetal underneath was very clean.

Some before shots, apparently the 3rd paint job was 'Barney the Dinosaur Purple' :wtf: One of the previous owners was a guy that bought the car for his wife and they decided to paint it... they were going for Plymouth Purple, but the paint turned out the wrong shade... the lady hated it so much they sold the car 2 months after the new paint. Also the car was a 4 speed manual from the factory, but the lady injured her left leg and couldn't press the clutch in, so they converted it to an auto. The car still has the clutch pedal and hump where the shifter came thru the floor.-

And some better pics of the rust & needed body work. The car was a vinyl top car and the roof had rusted out. The PO found a clean roof on a car in the wrecking yard, cut it off and paid a guy to weld it on... apparently the 'body man' exaggerated his skills. -

This was cool... and I'm sure it'll come in handy!

The floor is now bare metal and drying out.-

 

[Hickey]

Yikes, that roof. How available are new panels?

Edit: looks like plenty of aftermarket body panels, including weld-thru coated roofs. That "body" man is an idiot. The available panels make it far easier to replace.

 

[STAG]

Oh my. ...

 

[Greg]

Yikes, that roof. How available are new panels?

Edit: looks like plenty of aftermarket body panels, including weld-thru coated roofs. That "body" man is an idiot. The available panels make it far easier to replace.

Yep, there are a lot of options... it all depends on what you need (A pillars too?) and what brand you want. A roof panel isn't cheap, but simply replacing it will fix the problem verses trying to repair what's there. And yes... the body man was stupid. I don't know why someone would start welding from one corner and just run down the joint. It doesn't take a genius to think about tacking from the center and working your way around, letting it cool as you go.

The roof and the top of the quarters were the hardest part about the decision to pick up this car... if it comes down to it, I'll save up my money and pay a professional to deal with it and make sure it's done right.

Here's the thread that is a pretty well documented roof panel replacement... doesn't look that hard. - http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200179

 

[LT.]

http://www.shafiroff.com/sportsman/434_735.php

http://www.ultrastreet.net/engines/434_bigdawg.php

The second one is pretty close to what I have. My heads are a little different. I can't remember exactly what my cam is but, I think I did change my rocker ratio because I couldn't find a suitable cam with enough duration with the lobe separation I wanted. I know that I was excited and bummed with the power I made. The whole thing was a big pain though. Custom filing rings, push rods, port matching, three or four different headers, and exhaust combos, different intake manifolds, all port matched, four or five different carbs all tuned with different jets, springs, venturi swaps, ect. ect. ect....

Long story short, never again.

LT.

 

[blznnp]

Not specifically, mostly want it to handle very well... with the possibility of running at MMP in their Wide Open Wednesday's, if I get the chance.

I should be getting my Torque Arm set up next week ( I hope). Once I have it installed and if your ever in the salt lake area feel free to call me up and I can take you for a drive in it. Give you an idea on a set up that may handle good enough for you. I have stock subframe with tubular lower control arms, tall ball joints, coil overs front with 2002 corvette rotors. the rear will be a TCI torque arm w/subframe connectors, 8.5" 10 bolt and 2002 Camaro rotors. Once I get shoulder belt installed I plan on running the wide open Wednesday

 

[Greg]

I should be getting my Torque Arm set up next week ( I hope). Once I have it installed and if your ever in the salt lake area feel free to call me up and I can take you for a drive in it. Give you an idea on a set up that may handle good enough for you. I have stock subframe with tubular lower control arms, tall ball joints, coil overs front with 2002 corvette rotors. the rear will be a TCI torque arm w/subframe connectors, 8.5" 10 bolt and 2002 Camaro rotors. Once I get shoulder belt installed I plan on running the wide open Wednesday

Hell yeah! I was just looking at a Corvette C5 brake conversion for this '73, seems like a good option.

I think you're posted about your car before... it sounds very well built. Sounds like you're already where I want to take mine.

 

[blznnp]

Luckily I found a camaro that had everything I was planning on doing and it was a hair more than the price range I was looking at without the Ls engine and t56.With kids and other crap, I wouldn't have had the time most likely to get it done as quick as I would have liked. But I would have liked to build it myself though, finding little things that bug me from the previous owner(s). Taking it on hot rod power tour this year.

 

[thefirstzukman]

Do you really? How funny... I wish I was still connected to the guys I worked with, we had some good times.

I used to spend a bit of time at the old Super Shops, at that time I have a 73 SS Nova that I dont think I have any pictures of. It was red oxide primer with a black roof, It was as striped down as could be and I used to get stopped by people all the time at night because I didn't have any inner fenders and they would think something was wrong because they could see the glowing headers. I have had a few old Beater Rods that were just pieced together, but they all ran right and got me into a lot of trouble....

Got to admit I'm a little jealous of the build, can we please fast forward now a couple years..

 

[Greg]

I used to spend a bit of time at the old Super Shops, at that time I have a 73 SS Nova that I dont think I have any pictures of. It was red oxide primer with a black roof, It was as striped down as could be and I used to get stopped by people all the time at night because I didn't have any inner fenders and they would think something was wrong because they could see the glowing headers. I have had a few old Beater Rods that were just pieced together, but they all ran right and got me into a lot of trouble....

Got to admit I'm a little jealous of the build, can we please fast forward now a couple years..

That's too funny, makes me wonder if we had talked. I was in the shop most of my time there, started selling parts at the counter for awhile before I left. I should try dig up some pics of my old car.

I wish I could fast-forward until it was done! It's not going to be an easy project, that's for sure.

 

[Greg]

Well, I stripped the Camaro down even further, removed the rear window and windshield myself.... that was a first! I'll probably keep the rear window and put it back in, but drop in a new windshield. I also removed the dash, it will get replaced as it was cracked and falling apart. I found some more rust too, the A Pillar on the passenger side will need a patch panel and the piece between the trunk and bottom of the rear window will need to be replaced. Fortunately that piece bolts in so at least part of it will be easy.

The engine was supposed to have been rebuilt, with 40k miles on it since the rebuild and after looking close, I believe it. I ran the numbers on the block, which is 3951509. That number says it's a '74-80, 2 bolt main 400. The head # is 3932441, which aren't 400 heads... they're 327/350 heads. They aren't anything great, but aren't the worst head either. They have 75cc chambers, 1.94 intake and 1.5 exhaust valves. The engine came with a Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and a Holley 3310 carb, which is a 750 CFM vacuum secondary carb... same carb I ran in the past on my Camaro! I also got a pair of Doug Thorely Tri-Y headers... they look like quality parts, very thick flange and the design is supposed to help scavenging. They could use some clean up work and a fresh coat of high-temp paint. No pics of the dual Flowmaster 2.5" exhaust... again, the same thing I ran on my old car.

I'm at a bit of crossroads with this engine, swapping in a 6.0 is years down the road and will end up being pretty expensive. As it sits, this 400 probably a sub-300 HP engine and I don't know that I'd be happy with the stock heads and cam. With some better heads and a good roller cam, using the short-block, intake and carb... this thing could have some potential. I would think a 400 with some nice heads heads and roller cam, it would be a 420-430 HP engine... which would put a smile of my face!

I ran World Products Sportsman II heads on my 355 and they were impressive.... the same heads on the 400 would really wake it up. They're not the cheapest, but I know them well and what to expect. $620/each assembled. - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wrl-011150-1/overview/make/chevrolet

The problem at that point becomes spending enough money the older SBC to upgrade the heads and camshaft, when that money could buy a 6.0L LQ9. The heads would be close to $1300 before shipping and a good roller cam would run $500... that $1800 would go a long way towards a 6.0 engine. Hell, that should be enough to buy one outright. Guess I have my answer.... I'll keep the SBC as is, stab it in how it sits and save money for the 6.0 LQ9.

 

[LT.]

You are at quite the cross roads here. I understand the need for more power and I also understand the desire to get the car back together. The thought that I keep coming back to though is this. If you don't have the time or money to do it right the first time, when are you going to have the time and money to do it again?

I think, if it was me anyhow, I would take care of what you can now and save for the motor you really want. If you just drop in the motor you have you will be changing it up again all too soon. I believe you will be money ahead with the 6.0 motor swap now. Maybe you can sell the motor you have now and help fund the motor swap you want.

If you do decide to sell your motor would you please let me know? I might be really interested in it.

LT.

 

[Greg]

You are at quite the cross roads here. I understand the need for more power and I also understand the desire to get the car back together. The thought that I keep coming back to though is this. If you don't have the time or money to do it right the first time, when are you going to have the time and money to do it again?

I think, if it was me anyhow, I would take care of what you can now and save for the motor you really want. If you just drop in the motor you have you will be changing it up again all too soon. I believe you will be money ahead with the 6.0 motor swap now. Maybe you can sell the motor you have now and help fund the motor swap you want.

If you do decide to sell your motor would you please let me know? I might be really interested in it.

LT.

I thought about this as I fell asleep last night and came to the same conclusion... the car is apart, there is no rush a this point and I want to do it right the first time. There is no logic in setting the car up to run a SBC that I wouldn't be happy with and then tear it apart down the road for a LSx swap, especially when you consider all the parts I'll have to change. If I can sell the SBC and related parts and raise some of the funds to go towards a LQ9, then that seems to be the smart thing to do.

So.... PM coming your way.