Rattle Snake Five mile pass

[demon jeep]

Due to the actions of some inconsiterant people Rattle sanke wash is on the board to be close there will be a gate put up at a point that NO ONE will be able to get passed. There may be a chance to save this trail and keep it opened if nothing like what happen again!!!!!!


Reason for closure: There was a group of people that ran the trail and tore up vegitation and trees to climb ledges and go over bigger rocks to make the trail harded. Due to there actions the blm thinks this area should be closed down to LARGER OHV vehicles I think not. We need to let people know to stay on the trail and help keep these areas open. Do I come to your houses and drive on your side walk and trear up your grass HELL NO!!!!
So why sould some one be able to drive were ever they please becouse it is public land. Well the public will like to use that land in the future. I today watched alittle boy play with his truck and look at all the jeep and I saw that little loved doing this with his family, If we let people do stupid A$$ things like this then we will never see that boy take his kids on that trail and have the family time that his perant do with him.

SO all of you and I we need to stop beating around the bush and tell people to pull there heads out of there butts I have told freind to not do things that will close a trail.

If all of you love this sport than help protect it and help give the offroad comunity a good name and show some respect to the land and others!

 

[Greg]

I thought RattleSnake was on BLM Land AND 5 Mile Pass Land? Can they close it all? When did the BLM let you know about this?

 

[demon jeep]

5 mile pass land is BLM land. 5mile is just the name. I got a E-mail Thursday I just have not checked them for a while I am going to call them monday and see what is going on.

 

[EZRhino]

OK we need to define some things before all our panties get in a bunch.

First of all:

1) The definition of a trail. What is a trail? We know that Mineral Basin is a trail. The hints are: long time use, well established, recognized by the authorities (FS, BLM whatever), marked on maps with a trail number or designation. We also know that Metal Masher is a trail. But what about newer trails? Helldorado, although once a mining road, is a new trail to us. So is Proving Grounds. Are they really trails? Just because someone has driven there before (I.E. left tracks) does NOT mean it is a trail, a legitimate place to be, or a legal one. Also, just because driving in such an area will leave absolutely no environmental damage (like a boulderfield) does NOT give anyone the right to do so.

2) What is considered off the trail? 10 feet? 100 feet? Going around the right side of that big rock that everyone normally goes around the left side? Making an easy bypass? Making a hard bypass? Driving over nice green grass to go around a slippery log? Driving over grass that has obviously been driven over before to go around a log? I don't remember this log here last year, lets drive around it; it looks like everyone else has this year. (Ever thought of moving the log? Good excuse to buy a chainsaw).

3) What is considered trail building? What is normal, acceptable, what is not acceptable? If mother nature does XX in the winter, is it OK if we do XX in the summer? Rock rolling? (making an easy spot harder). Rock stacking? (making a hard spot easier).



Driving over trees, even sagebrush? A no-no. Where do we draw the line? Can I do some trail maintenance by cutting some branches? Cutting a limb? Cutting half a tree down so I don't scratch my paint? Cutting down a fallen tree that blew over in the last storm blocking the trail? What about driving off trail for 100 yards because the main trails still has 4 feet of spring snow in it, making it impossible to go any further? (unless you go around it)? Moving a 4' boulder that makes the trail a 4+ where for the last 10 years it was a 2?

The problem is that every one of these situations could have a totally different answer because each trail is different. What could get you in trouble in one place could be normal in another. Many authorities poison sagebrush to get rid of it. If that's the case, who cares if I drive over some of it?

The hard truth:
Stay on the main trail. Don't go on closed trails or those which you have good reason to believe are not legitimate, recognized trails (Like Charlie's Trail; it's a no-no for now). Don't go off the trail to bypass something difficult. If you can't make it, don't make the trail easier. You probably shouldn't be there. Get some skills! Modify your vehicle so you can make it, then come back another day. Don't go looking for difficult areas off the trail. If it isn't hard enough, maybe you should go somewhere else.

In rock climbing, new routes are pioneered and often times routes are bolted up a rock wall where there is no place for natural, removable "protection" to be placed. When the pioneers are finished marking the route and placing the bolts, the route is declared finished and it is not only common sense but also ethical to not place any more of your own bolts on someone else's route! Don't modify someone else's route. Same thing I think applies to new 4x4 trails. If the people that pioneer the route are still working on it, then it's OK to roll 10 cubic yards of fill if that's what they want (and it's OK with the BLM or whoever), but once it's declared finished, you'd better not add to or take away form the trail. Also, I thought everything North of the highway at 5mp was open to cross country OHV travel. That means you can drive anywhere??

This could be a hot thread..........comments?

EZ

 

[pokeyYJ]

You are right EZ, ever situation is different, but like you said there are some basic guildlines to be followed. But I think that there needs to be a set of standards that every trail is set by. That way there won't be too much bending of the rules ("well just this once...") I agree that this could be a heated issue and I predict that there will be two distinct lines of thought, the conservative (like myself) or the less conservative, but lets try to keep it civil

 

[EZRhino]

Right on Pokey.

Just because you build a buggy or other harder core 4x4, it doesn't give you the right to drive wherever you damn well please. Whether a trail is established or not, you don't do a 90 degree and burn up the side of a hill that looks challenging.

EZ

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Well said EZ. Demon... can you let us all know what we can do to help out on keeping this one open. I'm always down for a day of service fixin' trails (though I missed the AF one...) I think that with the help of the 4 wheelin' community we can keep alot of these trails off of closure lists and keep the favor of the BLM/FS...

 

[Floppy Hat]

I think the key here is enforcing the laws that are in place. We can sit at our computers and type about how stuff like this can't happen and point fingers, but the truth is that things won't change just because we talk about them. Chances are that most of the people who do this stuff won't even read this thread or even this board.

Enforcement is difficult because the management agencies are understaffed and can't be out there all the time. We have to start policing ourselves. If you see someone do something that jepordizes a trail's future then call them on it. If they're punks about it, report them. Both the BLM and the Forest Service have numbers you can call to report such activities:

BLM: 1-800-722-3998
Forest Service: 801-943-1794

Write down a licence plate number, take a picture of their vehicles off the trail, and report them. Nothing will change until this type of behavior is punished. People used to go to Corner Canyon, but the enforcment up there became so overwhelming that no one goes there anymore. It will take making an example out of some of these people for their actions to stop. I know that no one enjoys telling on their peers, but when it means losing a trail or reporting someone, I will choose reporting someone everytime.

 

[Hickey]

Good numbes to have, Floppy. I think you're on to something. Maybe we can get Greg to sticky these numbers to the top of the land use forum?

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by Floppy Hat
I think the key here is enforcing the laws that are in place.

I would like to see the laws and/or guidlines that are in place for this area.
I have been looking for them and have not yet foung any info.

I have been riding in this area for years on my ATV's and I'm having a hard time buying into the fact that this trail could be closed due to holes in the trail, rocks being move ect.

We have more of a chance that this area will be closed because of the poison in the dirt than a couple of morons.

Also I would like to add, Todd Adams with the UT4DW Association is in My Eyes the man who knows what can and can't be done out there. Maybe if he reads this thread he will comment.

 

[bobdog]

I was under the impresion that that area was a open off road area. I have a blm land use map from 5 to 10 years ago and it lists it as open (It doesn't show just roads open but the whole area as open). I never went out there until this fall but I always assumed that this meant that it was basicaly a sacrifice area and cross country travel and trail building would be legal (just like Johnson valley in Calf). I must have been mistaken. It seems to be agreed that this Charlies Trail wherever it is is off limits (even though I understand there is no signage) and Demon Jeep has talked to the BLM and says the trail is not a do what ever you want type of a trail and can be closed. I think the BLM need to do a much better job of communicating to the people that use the area what the rules are.

 

[demon jeep]

I glad to hear all the sapport on the area I was mad due all the time I have spent on the trail and here all of yousaying it was a fun trail. I love how mother nature really runs that trail it changes all the time, but we donnot need some one tearing up an area that will change all the area nature is a balnce of everything and we are the thing that will screw it all up.(dang I sound like I should belong to the eviro groups ) Let me see if we can get a group to gether some time and meat with the BLM on the HOLE 5 mile pass area and see what there laws contain to the area. If some of you are willing to help fight for our land then lets do it, My club is all for that if you want more info E-mail pokey and let him know he will send everyhting to you (as soon as I get it to him)

Thank you fro all of the support on the area and lets keep the ball rolling just think how mineral basin would have turned out like if we did not do anything

 

[Shawn]

You should run everything by Brett Davis and Todd Adams with the UT4WD before you get started. They have been working with the BLM on this area for years.

 

[mbryson]

Originally posted by Jeremy
Good numbes to have, Floppy. I think you're on to something. Maybe we can get Greg to sticky these numbers to the top of the land use forum?

I can post a sticky, but lets see what comes out of the meeting in the previous post.