sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Ilean's 4runner would be perfect for those trails, and it'd still be street legal.
Real life costs of a dedicated trail vehicle?
- Thread starter lenny
- Start date
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
That was done about as cheap as I could do it other than the ARBs.
It was pretty economical. I did drive it every day, and if it was broken from the weekend, I'd drive my '77GMC to work for a few days. I knocked out about 18 mpg on the freeway and 15 around town with it with 32" or 33" tires and 4.10 gears. When I went to the 35" tires, the mileage dropped a little. Say 16/14.
I think I had it for about four years. No major engine or trans work to speak of. I bought it with about 115K on it and sold it with 185K on it. The only "reliability" issue I can remember having (not wheeling inflicted repairs) is a CPS issue on the '91 4.0L. I spent about $1400 having that multiple times misdiagnosed and ultimately fixed. We bought my wife a '96 4.0L ZJ at 24K miles and sold it about 180K or so. I'm pretty happy with the 4.0L motor as far as reliable. I like the XJ trans more than the ZJ, but no problem with either one. Both Jeeps were GREAT to us. We've spent WAY more on my deezel trucks and my wife's Navigator than either Jeep. I'd buy another Jeep, but they are not the simple machines that they were when I had my good experiences with them. Not sure where to go with getting something newer.
If I built another rig like that (and it sounds like I'll be doing so in the near future for a young dude that thinks he'll be driving soon), I'd configure it similarly. Stick to 33" tires and stock axles (I'd try to find one with an 8.25" 29 spline axle) and selectable lockers. Probably 4.10 gears.
Cody's old ZJ with the LOW mile 5.2L and built half ton axles has some appeal if it's still available. Bart's kid bought it and is now selling it. With the 5.2L, that thing would be GREAT on the highway powerwise. Might not be quite as economical, but I'd imagine it would be quite comfortable and capable. I really liked our 4.0L ZJ.
Carl's 4-Runner is likely one of the cheapest, trail worthy vehicle out there IMHO. I'm not much for Toyota stuff (seating position has NEVER appealed to my crappy knees), but it should be reliable and I know it's been driven from Delta to Magna before. I don't know how street worthy that makes it, but it's definitely worth a look.
The past couple of years I've been trying to make my "Jeep" more street worthy. Reason: I don't think I'm getting enough enjoyment out of my investment. It's becoming somewhat palatable after swapping the spool for a Detroit, doing an alignment and such. The noise, vibration, harshness things the vehicle mfg. talk about is what's bugging me about it now. It's a Jeep, so that stuff is somewhat built in. Just trying to make it as good as I can make it. Maybe I'll be able to drive it to American Fork Canyon or something when I'm done with that/those projects?
If you're headed to the Noob run, we should bench race a little re: your question. I've got quite a few ideas about quite a few rigs. All of them need to be drivers.
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My 4runner actually drives pretty dang nice on the road, it surprises me every time I get in it and take it for a spin. (which is every couple weeks, at best
)
ricsrx
Well-Known Member
for me it comes down to where i am financially in my life, right now i can do the trail only, tow rig and trailer, even tho my truck is street legal why worry on the trail if it breaks when i can just tow it, i remember the days when i didnt have a pot to piss in and looking at the vw bug i drove it showed. at that time i would have not even thought of trying to purchase an off road rig,
- Location
- Riverton, UT
For years I had a Scout II with 3" lift with 32" tires that did everything I wanted to do even won a couple of trophies. The scout cost $650 with about $1000 added.
jeep-N-montero
Formerly black_ZJ
- Location
- Bountiful
My Jeep is a 3rd vehicle for us, but even on just 33's I am very glad to be done with the drive when we go to Moab. In the future I will likely pick up a cheap diesel pickup(likely 2wd) with a trailer and throw 35's under my Jeep to better match my 4.56 gears. Our other 2 cars average 30mpg, one of which is a 2005 Mazda 3 with only 39k miles on it, the other is my 95 Miata with only 114k miles on it. Only expense is gas and insurance, but my wife takes UTA to work everyday because they pay for her pass and it lets her relax on the way home, so this cuts down on our gas expense a lot. The only time the Jeep leaves the driveway is when we go camping, hitting the trails, or need to haul something big.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
Driving my jeep on the road would be aweful. When I used to drive my XJ everywhere it was fun but it got the same mileage as my truck (about 16) and I was stressed everytime I broke it. And the day after I went wheeling I was always listening for weird noises. My jeep cost more to insure.
If something broke Saturday, wrenching all day Sunday to get to work Monday stinks. I guarantee I put more wear and tear on my cherokee driving it on the road than wheeling it. Big tires arent cheap. I actually picked up a set of street friendly smaller tires to DD it to save on gas, noise and vibration. It worked ok actually.
Inexpensive reliable tow rig is my only car payment. Bought a cheap trailer. The combined costs are
less. (I define combined costs as: gas mileage, insurance, comfort, and keeping my wife happy)... with a smooth ride that you can enjoy on the way home from wheeling.
However we do use the truck for work. I'm considering selling our DD stockish YJ and getting more gas friendly commuter, but it's just too fun to drive.
If something broke Saturday, wrenching all day Sunday to get to work Monday stinks. I guarantee I put more wear and tear on my cherokee driving it on the road than wheeling it. Big tires arent cheap. I actually picked up a set of street friendly smaller tires to DD it to save on gas, noise and vibration. It worked ok actually.
Inexpensive reliable tow rig is my only car payment. Bought a cheap trailer. The combined costs are
less. (I define combined costs as: gas mileage, insurance, comfort, and keeping my wife happy)... with a smooth ride that you can enjoy on the way home from wheeling.
However we do use the truck for work. I'm considering selling our DD stockish YJ and getting more gas friendly commuter, but it's just too fun to drive.
machrism
Member
- Location
- Las Cruces, NM
My 92 Dodge W250 is my only running vehicle and is still broken. I am also the only one who can go wheeling. No one Im friends with have four wheels drives. Except one and his is usually not used. Which also sucks. I do know of some other guys thats do trails where I live but their rigs have lockers and are usually Yotas. Trails too technical for my LB truck. My funds couldnt warrant a trail only rig but if I could. I would. Ive had to get a wrecking truck with 4WD to pull me out after my axle broke and hope to never pay for that again. Untill then. My truck is everything and my next project is fixing my car. It gets 30 MPG instead of 12 MPG.
Not sure if this has been mention yet, I just skimmed the thread. I think the Jeff Stevens and the people he runs with have the best setups. They are legal enough to get around town but hardcore enough to run the most difficult trails, and comfortable enough to take even the most scenic of trails. But not really something you'd want to make more than a 30 min drive to a trail in on the highway.
I think the most optimal rig would be something that can get from trail to trail legally but throw it on the trailer for the long hauls. I also see the towrig/trailer as kind of an insurance package that will get you home when you unexpectedly destroy your trail rig having fun.
I think the most optimal rig would be something that can get from trail to trail legally but throw it on the trailer for the long hauls. I also see the towrig/trailer as kind of an insurance package that will get you home when you unexpectedly destroy your trail rig having fun.
Wow this is one of those "can of worms" questions...
Ultimately there are factors that will influence you as an individual so there are concessions that will need to be made. Kids, money, parking at your house... and of course all these change with life changes.
My 87 bronco was my daily driver when it went from stock to a 460 on 1 tons and 37's. I didn't live with my parents but I did the swaps at their house.
I did acquire a daily drive shortly after that and it almost got me kicked out of where I was living because we had too many vehicles.
anyway for current life; we have a 98 civic, an 00 super duty, and a 99 xj. we own all of them outright. Married no plans for kids... early 30's...
most insurance companies will allow you to drop insurance on a vehicle if you are not driving it. Allstate calls it "in storage" I call them up say that I am putting the jeep "in storage" and my insurance bill goes down until I "take it out of storage" they are super cool about, to get coverage back on I just have to leave it on their answering machine and I have insurance at that moment. When it is "in storage" i put a big note on the steering wheel so I don't drive it without insurance.
I really want to keep my wheeling vehicle street legal because it is fun to drive on the road and if one of our other vehicles breaks we still have two vehicles. (of course a few months ago my wife got in a car accident that took our civic off the road for a week and the jeep didn't have axles under it so that didn't work out as planned...) We may get a trailer but a vehicle that has to be trailered everywhere is kind of a pain to use. Also if I only drive my jeep in Moab it will break down in Moab. Unless we have insurance off of it, we will drive it at least once a week, we took it to the Olive Garden the other night.
I have a garage in the back yard of our house, it is great, but if I put a trailer on the rv pad I couldn't get a vehicle in and out of the garage. (I potentially could put a trailer pad on the other side of the house)
Our truck is a 5.4L 2000 superduty it would struggle to pull the jeep on a trailer, but if you search the "tow rig" area there are some pretty good arguments to getting a gas tow rig. (the added expense of a diesel is a lot if the only thing you "need" it for is to haul ass up the hills going to moab, a gas truck looks a lot better when thinking of it like that)
For a daily driver, You can find older imports if you don't care what you are driving for cheap that are pretty cheap to own. I have a co-worker that picked up a hyundai accent 2 years ago for $1000. he has had to put a few hundered dollers here and there into it but he has really gotten his money out of it. But a car like that you probably won't want to jump in and go on a long road trip. Our Civic is a commuter car and a road trip car (40mpg highway) so we wanted something a little more reliable than a $1000 car. Plus you typically want your wife to have a pretty reliable car. We have snow tires for the civic and a set of Michelins and both sets of tires were about $1200.00. (btw if you have never had a set of snow tires, they are 100 times better than you would think...)
Our truck we put less than 5000 miles a year on. it has 214,000 miles, i bought it from my dad he bought it new with 10 miles on it. That truck has been the most reliable vehicle ever built. It had it's first real problem at 208,000 miles, the fuel pump left me standard... in my garage... It has the original motor, tranny, clutch, t-case, alternator... I can count the things that have gone wrong with it on 2 hands and most of those are things like the dome light sticks on because of dust in the door switch or the clutch cruise control switch failed so the cruise control didn't work. But if I start towing the jeep with it it will need a new motor and some kind of power improving device. It is really nice to have a truck. It is easy to make a Home Depot run for whatever, or a junk yard run or go pick up an axle.
uh what was the original question...
"My question is, is it worth it to have a dedicated trail vehicle versus a built daily driver?"
I guess if you buy a crappy car and remove insurance from the wheeling rig when not in use it can be cost effective... It is hard to factor in the "cost" of not having to stress about getting to work on monday. I have driven home from moab in front wheel drive in the bronco... with a lock-rite in the front axle... it was nice that I had my car so I didn't have to deal with the broken rear yoke right away.
I think most guys will say it is "worth it" but probably not really cost effective, but this hobby is not cheap, if you want to play you gotta pay...
I thought I would ramble more...
nathan
99 xj
build thread
http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?t=83436
Ultimately there are factors that will influence you as an individual so there are concessions that will need to be made. Kids, money, parking at your house... and of course all these change with life changes.
My 87 bronco was my daily driver when it went from stock to a 460 on 1 tons and 37's. I didn't live with my parents but I did the swaps at their house.
I did acquire a daily drive shortly after that and it almost got me kicked out of where I was living because we had too many vehicles.
anyway for current life; we have a 98 civic, an 00 super duty, and a 99 xj. we own all of them outright. Married no plans for kids... early 30's...
most insurance companies will allow you to drop insurance on a vehicle if you are not driving it. Allstate calls it "in storage" I call them up say that I am putting the jeep "in storage" and my insurance bill goes down until I "take it out of storage" they are super cool about, to get coverage back on I just have to leave it on their answering machine and I have insurance at that moment. When it is "in storage" i put a big note on the steering wheel so I don't drive it without insurance.
I really want to keep my wheeling vehicle street legal because it is fun to drive on the road and if one of our other vehicles breaks we still have two vehicles. (of course a few months ago my wife got in a car accident that took our civic off the road for a week and the jeep didn't have axles under it so that didn't work out as planned...) We may get a trailer but a vehicle that has to be trailered everywhere is kind of a pain to use. Also if I only drive my jeep in Moab it will break down in Moab. Unless we have insurance off of it, we will drive it at least once a week, we took it to the Olive Garden the other night.
I have a garage in the back yard of our house, it is great, but if I put a trailer on the rv pad I couldn't get a vehicle in and out of the garage. (I potentially could put a trailer pad on the other side of the house)
Our truck is a 5.4L 2000 superduty it would struggle to pull the jeep on a trailer, but if you search the "tow rig" area there are some pretty good arguments to getting a gas tow rig. (the added expense of a diesel is a lot if the only thing you "need" it for is to haul ass up the hills going to moab, a gas truck looks a lot better when thinking of it like that)
For a daily driver, You can find older imports if you don't care what you are driving for cheap that are pretty cheap to own. I have a co-worker that picked up a hyundai accent 2 years ago for $1000. he has had to put a few hundered dollers here and there into it but he has really gotten his money out of it. But a car like that you probably won't want to jump in and go on a long road trip. Our Civic is a commuter car and a road trip car (40mpg highway) so we wanted something a little more reliable than a $1000 car. Plus you typically want your wife to have a pretty reliable car. We have snow tires for the civic and a set of Michelins and both sets of tires were about $1200.00. (btw if you have never had a set of snow tires, they are 100 times better than you would think...)
Our truck we put less than 5000 miles a year on. it has 214,000 miles, i bought it from my dad he bought it new with 10 miles on it. That truck has been the most reliable vehicle ever built. It had it's first real problem at 208,000 miles, the fuel pump left me standard... in my garage... It has the original motor, tranny, clutch, t-case, alternator... I can count the things that have gone wrong with it on 2 hands and most of those are things like the dome light sticks on because of dust in the door switch or the clutch cruise control switch failed so the cruise control didn't work. But if I start towing the jeep with it it will need a new motor and some kind of power improving device. It is really nice to have a truck. It is easy to make a Home Depot run for whatever, or a junk yard run or go pick up an axle.
uh what was the original question...
"My question is, is it worth it to have a dedicated trail vehicle versus a built daily driver?"
I guess if you buy a crappy car and remove insurance from the wheeling rig when not in use it can be cost effective... It is hard to factor in the "cost" of not having to stress about getting to work on monday. I have driven home from moab in front wheel drive in the bronco... with a lock-rite in the front axle... it was nice that I had my car so I didn't have to deal with the broken rear yoke right away.
I think most guys will say it is "worth it" but probably not really cost effective, but this hobby is not cheap, if you want to play you gotta pay...
I thought I would ramble more...
nathan
99 xj
build thread
http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?t=83436
lenny
formerly known as PokeyYJ
- Location
- Bountiful, UT
Thanks for all the replies guys! I like hearing other peoples experiences with this
I've flip flopped on this for years. Had extremely built buggies and very nice Jeeps. I've come to find there is no perfect rig for all needs.
There is lots of great advice here. I think you answered your own question in you third paragraph. If you are not going to have a tow rig you will need to limit how hard core you're going to go.
I'm in the process of deciding how hard core to build my current rig. It will end up with a stretched wheelbase, 60s, and an Atlas. Someday it will have a V8. I fully plan to drive this to harder trails, wheel all day or days, and drive home. I do have the luxury of having a truck and access to a trailer. I also wheel mostly with people with dedicated trail rig that are towed.
Good luck with your decision.
There is lots of great advice here. I think you answered your own question in you third paragraph. If you are not going to have a tow rig you will need to limit how hard core you're going to go.
I'm in the process of deciding how hard core to build my current rig. It will end up with a stretched wheelbase, 60s, and an Atlas. Someday it will have a V8. I fully plan to drive this to harder trails, wheel all day or days, and drive home. I do have the luxury of having a truck and access to a trailer. I also wheel mostly with people with dedicated trail rig that are towed.
Good luck with your decision.
rondo
rondo
- Location
- Boise Idaho
For me I tried to do everything and have the best of all worlds and all it really amounted to was expense and expense.
As i've evolved in the hobby i've moved toward wanting a vehicle that can conquer every trail in Moab. I've finally reached that goal with my YJ. However it has sticky tires and no fenders, which mean tow rig. I've kept insurance on it and tags but the only place i feel comfortable driving it in town is in Moab itself. That is spendy for 2x trips a year. And it's a summer rig since the YJ sucks in winter with soft top and spools!
My DD is a chev 1/2 ton tow vehicle. Not ideal in itself but needed to haul the YJ around.
My other off road rig is my Nissan, and my wife and i had a lot of adventures in it. AC in winter, heater in summer. But when our daughter came along it wasn't possible for her to be in the back. Should have gotten the 4 door version? This rig is amazing off road but if i pound on it, then it starts to get maintenance intensive =$$. The YJ seems to take the pounding prolly cause it's 1/2 the weight!
I guess what i'm getting at is if you have $ to waste, then go down that road. Otherwise avoid the hard core trails to keep the DD alive, keep it at 35' tires perhaps and just use it all year around. Have a legal, wheeling, expedition, family rig with a winch and have fun. Once you start getting into the hard core stuff the formula ceases to work haha
As i've evolved in the hobby i've moved toward wanting a vehicle that can conquer every trail in Moab. I've finally reached that goal with my YJ. However it has sticky tires and no fenders, which mean tow rig. I've kept insurance on it and tags but the only place i feel comfortable driving it in town is in Moab itself. That is spendy for 2x trips a year. And it's a summer rig since the YJ sucks in winter with soft top and spools!
My DD is a chev 1/2 ton tow vehicle. Not ideal in itself but needed to haul the YJ around.
My other off road rig is my Nissan, and my wife and i had a lot of adventures in it. AC in winter, heater in summer. But when our daughter came along it wasn't possible for her to be in the back. Should have gotten the 4 door version? This rig is amazing off road but if i pound on it, then it starts to get maintenance intensive =$$. The YJ seems to take the pounding prolly cause it's 1/2 the weight!
I guess what i'm getting at is if you have $ to waste, then go down that road. Otherwise avoid the hard core trails to keep the DD alive, keep it at 35' tires perhaps and just use it all year around. Have a legal, wheeling, expedition, family rig with a winch and have fun. Once you start getting into the hard core stuff the formula ceases to work haha
big cherokee
a.r.c fabrication
- Location
- layton
same here as i evolved in the sport i wanted something that could concure any thing i put in front of it, i drove my yota on 37s to moab the first year wheeled for 4 days and came home on a set of worn out leafs with a tie down sucking the rear of the rig down to keep it from swaying. and i did not get to hit the trails i really wanted,
i ended up picking up a 26" foot trailer for 1200 bucks it is not ideal as i have to drive over the fenders and needs a deck put on it soon. but i get it to work.
also picked up a 83 crew cab chev for 500 runs great i have put exhaust on it and did the whole brake system, its my daily driver also, gets around 10mpg towing and just driving, will pull soldier summit at 50 and pulls the trailer at 70 the rest of the time.
so im into the tow set up a total of around 2500 bucks, i put my yota to ohv only cost me 35 dollars a year. insurance on the truck or way cheap. so for now it works great. sooner or later i want to step up to diesel with ac and what. but i can fit the family in the truck perfectly and go wheel with no worries of haveing to get home. and hit what ever i want to.
i ended up picking up a 26" foot trailer for 1200 bucks it is not ideal as i have to drive over the fenders and needs a deck put on it soon. but i get it to work.
also picked up a 83 crew cab chev for 500 runs great i have put exhaust on it and did the whole brake system, its my daily driver also, gets around 10mpg towing and just driving, will pull soldier summit at 50 and pulls the trailer at 70 the rest of the time.
so im into the tow set up a total of around 2500 bucks, i put my yota to ohv only cost me 35 dollars a year. insurance on the truck or way cheap. so for now it works great. sooner or later i want to step up to diesel with ac and what. but i can fit the family in the truck perfectly and go wheel with no worries of haveing to get home. and hit what ever i want to.
ID Bronco
Registered User
- Location
- Idaho Falls, ID
I don't believe there is a perfect combo for every one. I trailer my rig 90% of the time, enjoy driving it around town but it's not comfy at all. I use a truck for other things so for me a 1500 dollar trailer wasn't that big of a deal. I am in the trail rig $35 a month in insurance and a hundred bucks a year in tags. I don't feel that bad about having it sit alot since I haven't paid on it in many years. I often think of selling it and getting something more street friendly but I have to wait for 4door jeeps to depreciate more. Then I want to go that route. I will still tow it long distances though.
i currently have a mildly built xj that i take on the trails you speak of and i love it. i am sort of glad i don't have to daily it since the wife and i carpool but i drive it when we have conflicting schedules and i really don't mind. that being said, i plan to get a suv or truck that is capable of towing it on the long hauls like moab or stg just for comfort and peace of mind. the 4 hour trip to moab wears on me a little but that doesn't stop me from doing it 3-4 times a year
bschroeder
Active Member
- Location
- slc
Just putting in my 2 cents, I would love to have a tow rig, trailer, etc. But I enjoyed the fact I can go out wheel hard for the day or the weekend and then drive it back home, It gives me a sense of pride knowing that I have built something that will wheel with the best of them and then take me to work and back and do the same thing all over again the next time I head out.
lenny
formerly known as PokeyYJ
- Location
- Bountiful, UT
Kinda funny, I was going to post a new thread about basically the same thing, decided to search and see what has already been posted,,,,, and low and behold there is my old thread about a year ago. Haha! Might mean that my interests are cyclical?
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
It is kinda funny