Registration

[DToy]

Dtoy, Looks like an ‘86 4 runner to me.

Go vintage if you can.

That is how Joeys ‘76 cj7 is registered and insured.

Roger that! I’m thinking that’s the direction I’ll go. Mine’s actually been titled an ‘84 Runner for the past several years. Any idea how emissions requirements play into a vintage registration? Mine is on propane now - no emissions crap on the motor anymore. I’m sure it would burn plenty clean, just wondering on the visual (if required).

 

[Caleb]

I went the same route as YROC Fab when I did mine and had zero issues. Is was very easy. However, that was many years ago so I’m sure hints are different now. I did write an article on here about it with all the steps and all the forms that needed to be filled out. May be worth seeing if you can find that post from me.

As for the vintage plate route, I’m strongly against that. The vintage plate exists for a reason and it’s not to let us get around the laws and register our buggies. It drives me crazy when you see an old piece of shit Toyota Tercel driving around with a vintage plate. If that plate/loophole gets abused, they’ll take it away or modify it so it’s impossible to use it for what it’s intended to be used for.

 

[Jinx]

Caleb, Help me understand the difference, in your opinion, between my highly modified CJ7 that gets trailered everywhere, mainly used for club events, etc. and a hot rod t-bucket?

As I have read the eligibility for a vintage plate it matches perfect and enables me to use the vehicle and properly insure it without a lot of worthless drama, but I am curious to understand your thoughts.

On the other hand I will completely agree with you on a lot of people are using the tag get around inspection laws, that I think are enforced anymore need to read on that, on vehicles that are use for everyday use. Not the intended use for the vintage tag?

The smart@ss in me wonders if I need to take it to the city park on the 4th of July and rub it with a cloth diaper to qualify.

 

[mbryson]

Caleb, Help me understand the difference, in your opinion, between my highly modified CJ7 that gets trailered everywhere, mainly used for club events, etc. and a hot rod t-bucket?

As I have read the eligibility for a vintage plate it matches perfect and enables me to use the vehicle and properly insure it without a lot of worthless drama, but I am curious to understand your thoughts.

On the other hand I will completely agree with you on a lot of people are using the tag get around inspection laws, that I think are enforced anymore need to read on that, on vehicles that are use for everyday use. Not the intended use for the vintage tag?

The smart@ss in me wonders if I need to take it to the city park on the 4th of July and rub it with a cloth diaper to qualify.

I think it fits perfectly for what your rig (and mine) does. Sit in the garage except for a couple times a month, occasional (once or twice a year) commuting, used for parades-rallies-events-etc, or occasional leisure driving. It's not as "cool" to some as a '33 Phaeton or '57 Chev convertible or whatever, but it's VERY similar in use, time on a public highway and intent.

I also agree with Caleb on the '89 Toyota or the '81 K10 that is NOT a special interest vehicle (not that those rigs can't be) having a plate to skirt the safety inspection that's no longer an issue. Maybe the misuse of those plates will decrease now? If I was an officer and had nothing better to do and saw someone daily commuting a vehicle with that plate consistently, I'd make a point of stopping them and asking them about their registration/plate.

I've always wanted to build a streetable buggy (what's now 5+ years ago Ultra 4 car) and insert a Jeep/FJ/something cowl on it with a VIN. Something that can run down the highway impressively, have a bit of creature comforts like a heater, wipers, windshield, etc but that I could DRIVE to Moab or St. George, run whatever trails and DRIVE back home. That'd be an impressive rig! Then I ran into Dee McNenny and fell in love with her LJ. That's a SWEET build! Bart seems headed that way with his?

 

[DToy]

Thanks guys for all the replies. Here’s where I’m at - my rig was titled as a 1984 4Runner. I bought a Hendrix x-chassis and swapped everything over onto it (full-width tons, 42’s, 22RE, trans & tcases, etc) and converted it to propane and got rid of all the emissions crap. I still have the title and VIN plates from when it was a 4Runner, but I’m thinking I’d be out of bounds to just attach those VIN plates to the new chassis? I’ve got turn signals, brake lights, headlights, horn, etc. - basically what would be required to pass inspection as a full-size street legal OHV. It’s far from being the kind of rig you’d ever drive on the street regularly and my intent would never be to do so, I just want to be able to legally drive between trails in Moab etc. and be able to get affordable insurance coverage. So I’m still torn with which direction to go. I don’t want to go through the nightmare of being required to show the DMV what I spent to build it, especially since I already paid sales/use tax on the parts, just so that they can screw me again on taxes. It would seem to me that there is no difference between my buggy and a streetrod like Jinx mentions above, so why not go the vintage route being that nearly all of the parts are from a 1984 (34 year-old) vintage vehicle?

 

[Caleb]

Caleb, Help me understand the difference, in your opinion, between my highly modified CJ7 that gets trailered everywhere, mainly used for club events, etc. and a hot rod t-bucket?

Sorry just saw this. From the dmv site:

Vintage Plates
Vintage Vehicle plates are available for vehicles that are:

At least 30 years old.
Collectors' items used for exhibitions, parades, and similar activities.
NOT used for general daily transportation

While some CJ7s could easily be qualified as a collectors item, a rockcrawler in no way is a collectors item. Justify it how you want, IMO , nothing about our rockcralwers qualifies for a vintage plate.

 

[Jinx]

Thanks guys for all the replies. Here’s where I’m at - my rig was titled as a 1984 4Runner. I bought a Hendrix x-chassis and swapped everything over onto it (full-width tons, 42’s, 22RE, trans & tcases, etc) and converted it to propane and got rid of all the emissions crap. I still have the title and VIN plates from when it was a 4Runner, but I’m thinking I’d be out of bounds to just attach those VIN plates to the new chassis? I’ve got turn signals, brake lights, headlights, horn, etc. - basically what would be required to pass inspection as a full-size street legal OHV. It’s far from being the kind of rig you’d ever drive on the street regularly and my intent would never be to do so, I just want to be able to legally drive between trails in Moab etc. and be able to get affordable insurance coverage. So I’m still torn with which direction to go. I don’t want to go through the nightmare of being required to show the DMV what I spent to build it, especially since I already paid sales/use tax on the parts, just so that they can screw me again on taxes. It would seem to me that there is no difference between my buggy and a streetrod like Jinx mentions above, so why not go the vintage route being that nearly all of the parts are from a 1984 (34 year-old) vintage vehicle?

I guess in my head, there is no difference between what you are doing and the hot rod guys that use an aftermarket frame, upgraded steering, heavier axles, modified engines, etc.

Get it registered, insured, and enjoy it.

Sorry just saw this. From the dmv site:



While some CJ7s could easily be qualified as a collectors item, a rockcrawler in no way is a collectors item. Justify it how you want, IMO , nothing about our rockcralwers qualifies for a vintage plate.

Ok, I have to call you on your creative quoting of what qualifies for a vintage plate.

From the website. https://dmv.utah.gov/plates/special-group

“This plate identifies a vehicle at least 30 years old, is primarily a collector’s item, and used for participation in club activities, exhibitions, tours, parades, occasional transportation and similar uses, but is not used for general daily transportation.”

I just find it less objective/overly biased that you would leave out “used for participation in club activities, exhibitions, tours,...” in your “setting things straight” post.

You obviously have never been the Bronco Safari.

I am not here to try and change your obvious bias/opinion, just pointing out that you have one.

 

[Bart]

Not meaning to be a downer, but I think your biggest hurdle would be that it no longer resembles a 4Runner with fenders and bumpers. You could try it, but any law enforcement officer could pull you over and know that the VIN tags were transferred and could impound it for improper registration and license. Your insurance could also deny any claim for the same reason.

Thanks guys for all the replies. Here’s where I’m at - my rig was titled as a 1984 4Runner. I bought a Hendrix x-chassis and swapped everything over onto it (full-width tons, 42’s, 22RE, trans & tcases, etc) and converted it to propane and got rid of all the emissions crap. I still have the title and VIN plates from when it was a 4Runner, but I’m thinking I’d be out of bounds to just attach those VIN plates to the new chassis? I’ve got turn signals, brake lights, headlights, horn, etc. - basically what would be required to pass inspection as a full-size street legal OHV. It’s far from being the kind of rig you’d ever drive on the street regularly and my intent would never be to do so, I just want to be able to legally drive between trails in Moab etc. and be able to get affordable insurance coverage. So I’m still torn with which direction to go. I don’t want to go through the nightmare of being required to show the DMV what I spent to build it, especially since I already paid sales/use tax on the parts, just so that they can screw me again on taxes. It would seem to me that there is no difference between my buggy and a streetrod like Jinx mentions above, so why not go the vintage route being that nearly all of the parts are from a 1984 (34 year-old) vintage vehicle?

 

[Jinx]

Not meaning to be a downer, but I think your biggest hurdle would be that it no longer resembles a 4Runner with fenders and bumpers. You could try it, but any law enforcement officer could pull you over and know that the VIN tags were transferred and could impound it for improper registration and license. Your insurance could also deny any claim for the same reason.

Great point Bart,
Thanks for bringing it up. I wonder how the fiberglass bodied, aftermarket frame situation deal with the vin swap...? It has to happen...

Which leads to the next question in this progression, how are people insuring the full-sized OHVs?

In the past it was hard to get/stupid expensive. Only Limited agencies willing to do it, etc.

Any input?

 

[bryson]

The few vehicles that I have registered as OHVs were given new titles and VINs that classified them as OHVs. The existing motor vehicle title and VIN plate were rendered useless and obsolete. That new title and VIN can be issued on a vehicle/buggy/whatever whether it started as a 1984 4Runner or a pile of DOM tubing on your floor.

That would likely be the proper route for this rig, especially now that the OHVs can be driven (within limits of course) on the road.

I think in @DToy's situation, the vintage plate would be inappropriate.

 

[Jinx]

The few vehicles that I have registered as OHVs were given new titles and VINs that classified them as OHVs. The existing motor vehicle title and VIN plate were rendered useless and obsolete. That new title and VIN can be issued on a vehicle/buggy/whatever whether it started as a 1984 4Runner or a pile of DOM tubing on your floor.

That would likely be the proper route for this rig, especially now that the OHVs can be driven (within limits of course) on the road.

I think in @DToy's situation, the vintage plate would be inappropriate.

On the vehicles you have registered as OHV, how hard was it to get insurance on it? Or did you just skip it?

 

[bryson]

On the vehicles you have registered as OHV, how hard was it to get insurance on it? Or did you just skip it?

The couple times I brought it up with my agent I received less than sufficient responses... In short, the vehicles were not covered with their own individual policies, but, they were covered. I think.

 

[Jinx]

The couple times I brought it up with my agent I received less than sufficient responses... In short, the vehicles were not covered with their own individual policies, but, they were covered. I think.

That's the hard part. I am willing totake full responsibility for my vehicle damage wise, I am not going to make a claim for rock rash, but the personal injury, or hurting someone else's vehicle, I would want to have something in place to take care of that.

That's the nice part of the vintage tag on my rigs, I can just run a liability policy on them for relatively cheap, and keeps me somewhat legal...

equipment ticket = $50-$100
uninsured motorist =$550+
hurting someone without insurance= your house and future earnings...

 

[Caleb]

Ok, I have to call you on your creative quoting of what qualifies for a vintage plate.

From the website. https://dmv.utah.gov/plates/special-group

“This plate identifies a vehicle at least 30 years old, is primarily a collector’s item, and used for participation in club activities, exhibitions, tours, parades, occasional transportation and similar uses, but is not used for general daily transportation.”

I just find it less objective/overly biased that you would leave out “used for participation in club activities, exhibitions, tours,...” in your “setting things straight” post.

You obviously have never been the Bronco Safari.

I am not here to try and change your obvious bias/opinion, just pointing out that you have one.

Not creative quoting at all, I was on my phone and mistakenly quoted dmv.org instead of the Utah site:

https://www.dmv.org/ut-utah/special-license-plates.php#Vintage-Unique-Vehicle-Plates

Even using the Utah site text doesn't change anything though. The requirements aren't, meet one or a couple of these things, it's you fulfill all of those things.

Being creative is saying your full tube buggy is a vintage vehicle

I do agree with everything else though, if the difference of having insurance or not is having a vintage plate or not, then by all means, get the stupid plate. If your only reason to get the plate is because it's tougher to go the OHV route or one of the other legitimate routes, then I fully disagree with using the vintage plate. Clear as mud?

 

[Jinx]

Not creative quoting at all, I was on my phone and mistakenly quoted dmv.org instead of the Utah site:

https://www.dmv.org/ut-utah/special-license-plates.php#Vintage-Unique-Vehicle-Plates

Even using the Utah site text doesn't change anything though. The requirements aren't, meet one or a couple of these things, it's you fulfill all of those things.

Being creative is saying your full tube buggy is a vintage vehicle

I do agree with everything else though, if the difference of having insurance or not is having a vintage plate or not, then by all means, get the stupid plate. If your only reason to get the plate is because it's tougher to go the OHV route or one of the other legitimate routes, then I fully disagree with using the vintage plate. Clear as mud?

 

[DToy]

Some very valid points in this thread. Since mine is a full tube chassis, I ultimately decided to register it as a full size street legal OHV. Took the paperwork for the bare chassis I bought to the DMV along with my rig. After about 5 trips to consult with a supervisor the DMV employee issued a new vin. I installed it there and they verified it. I had to pay sales tax on the chassis (purchased out of state) but not on everything else since it was transferred from my ‘84 4Runner. Had to go get a safety inspection for the street legal full-size OHV and then back to DMV to get my plate.

I’ve got an awesome friend that’s an insurance agent at Bowen Leavitt. It took a while but he was able to get me an insurance policy through Progressive. Covers me for any liability associated with driving on the street (which I’ll rarely do) as well as coverage in case of theft.

It’s come a long way from a little red 4Runner.

 

[Evolved]

While driving to get my humans from daycare I found myself behind this “vintage show car”. It just reminded me of this thread and the conversations that were had around registering a vehicle as a vintage show/club car. Just made me laugh...