Rock Buggies!!!

[pokeyYJ]

OK, I have been thinking about this lately. What do you guys think is better, heavy and way overbuilt stuff, or light weight with moderate axles and stuff.

I would like to hear from the guys here that have actually driven in a competition. When you build a buggy do you try to keep it light so that you can get away with running light gear. Or do younot worry about the weight and just build the drive train like a frieght train.

Where does each have its advantages and disadvantages?

Also I see that people are starting to stray away from American made motors, they are starting to do four poppers and stuff. My question is why has nobody played with the rice burner stuff. These guys have a huge aftermarket, and you can get some pretty good numbers out of their motors. You could use a VTEC out of a Civic SI, man those motors don't redline until 13000RPM!!!

So lets hear it, thank-you come again.

 

[kb7sei]

I'd say a hybrid is probably the best. Lightweight in the frame, body, etc.. But "built like a freight train" in the drivetrain. Run 44s and never break.

Weight breaks things. Big motors and lots of skinny pedal breaks things. If you want to avoid breaking things, you have to balance all that out. So a Sami with Toy axles and a stock 4-cyl isn't likely to break anything. If you put those Toy axles under a Suburban with a V8, you're asking for it. Then you have to factor in tire size and weight, the bigger the tire, the more stress on the axles.

IMO, Ricer stuff has disadvantages for things like rockcrawling. How often do you rev your motor to even 6K when on the rocks? What you want on the rocks is low end torque. Gears can make up for some of that, which is one reason people like 4-cyls. They aren't likely to break things and with tricks like dual transfer cases and low gearsets they can crawl with the best of them. The downside to 4-cyls, is that they usually produce peak power in the high RPM range. The tricks to get more HP out of them usually involve turbo and NOS setups. Neither of which I would want on a trail rig. The boost could be enough to throw you off balance in a off-camber situation, for example. A supercharger is more predictable but not as popular for the ricer crowd. On the rocks, "there is no replacement for displacement". Well, except for gears in some situations. On sand, you can run higher RPMs and speeds. Rice might make a good side-dish in that case.

I've never driven a comp and I am a web-wheeler at the moment (my rig is under construction). I wanted to see the thread get going though and I figgured I could start the holy war as well as anyone else.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Originally posted by pokeyYJ
...why has nobody played with the rice burner stuff

Some have... All-Pro has the VW and the Carnage Crew guys are putting together a Subaru based buggy. The Subaru rig is looking sweet...

 

[Milner]

It's all a trade off!
Nothing is ideal for everything or every comp.
People get too caught up in the "if this is good, more of it is better". Just because a light rig does well, does not mean lighter is better!! Just because stong axles are good, does not mean we all need to run rockwells or ZF's.
I can see a buggy being so light that it does not have enough wieght to produce sufficient traction. (stomp on the gas and spin all four tires).
I feel the concern with building a buggy should be balance and a conservitive overall wieght.

Is there an ideal? NO!!
What is the rig for, who drives it and how? What happens when someone decides to do a comp that is not all waterfalls/climbs? Do you want to do trails too, or just comps.

Build a good vehicle and learn how to drive it, that will do a lot more than having the lightest/strongest/coolest/etc.

JMHO

Marc

 

[redrock]

Originally posted by rckcrlr
It's all a trade off!
Nothing is ideal for everything or every comp.
People get too caught up in the "if this is good, more of it is better". Just because a light rig does well, does not mean lighter is better!! Just because stong axles are good, does not mean we all need to run rockwells or ZF's.
I can see a buggy being so light that it does not have enough wieght to produce sufficient traction. (stomp on the gas and spin all four tires).
I feel the concern with building a buggy should be balance and a conservitive overall wieght.

Is there an ideal? NO!!
What is the rig for, who drives it and how? What happens when someone decides to do a comp that is not all waterfalls/climbs? Do you want to do trails too, or just comps.

Build a good vehicle and learn how to drive it, that will do a lot more than having the lightest/strongest/coolest/etc.

JMHO

Marc

i agree build a good and learn to drive it

 

[RockMonkey]

When I built my Jeep I didn't really give weight much consideration. I was sick of breaking axles and wanted something unbreakable. Now that I haven't been breaking stuff I've become more concerned with weight. I don't know what my Jeep weighs, but I seem to be able to hang okay in the comps. My next rig will be a lightweight.

 

[pokeyYJ]

Originally posted by cruiseroutfit


Some have... All-Pro has the VW and the Carnage Crew guys are putting together a Subaru based buggy. The Subaru rig is looking sweet...

Come on man the VW is a Bratwurst burner, totally different than a Rice, plus its Air Cooled from the looks of it. As for the Subaru, well thats just strange.

 

[skulltoy]

As for the Subaru, well thats just strange.

No it's different

Before we went to the supercrawl our plan was to build a big block powered buggy with mog axles. That thing would have weighted a ton!

After we went to the supercrawl we decided to go lightweight.

A big heavy high horse powered rig would have been fun to watch, but it isn't needed IMO. I only weight 165 lbs so as the spotter I will have much more influence pulling on a 2000lb rig than a 4000lb rig.

I do know that whatever vehicle you build it will not be perfect for every obsticle. Some things are better ran with a short wheel base and low gears, other things are better with a long wheel base and lotsa power.

That is what I like about this sport, everyone brings in their own ideas on what will work and what won't, then they are all thrown in to compete against each other. Unlike other motorsports where the rule book tells you how to build your rig.

 

[Andy]

I gotta give Skulltoy credit for thinking out side the box . My approach is the middle of the road, I love a screaming V8 , I don't think I'll ever build anything without a V8, the power is just too much fun and I don't care about the extra weight. But a Northstar is on my wish list .

 

[Milner]

I agree with Andy ( did I just say that???)
I love the power of the V8.
My wish list is the new Ford Cammer 5.0, based off the modular 4.6. All aluminium twin overhead cams, 425 hp@6700 and 370 ft/lb@4000. Not sure of wieght, but pretty cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Imagine it with a supercharger. Article I saw says there will be 6 different wire harnesses available and the motor comes complete!!!!!!!
I WANT ONE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Originally posted by skulltoy

No it's different

Not to mention super cool factor! I can't to hear how it works.

 

[NoTrax]

Originally posted by skulltoy


No it's different

That thing would have weighted a ton!

Or 3

 

[pokeyYJ]

Originally posted by skulltoy
No it's different

I didn't mean it as an insult, just joken around.













P.S. Its still wierd, just kidding

 

[Hickey]

Originally posted by rckcrlr
I agree with Andy ( did I just say that???)
I love the power of the V8.
My wish list is the new Ford Cammer 5.0, based off the modular 4.6. All aluminium twin overhead cams, 425 hp@6700 and 370 ft/lb@4000. Not sure of wieght, but pretty cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Imagine it with a supercharger. Article I saw says there will be 6 different wire harnesses available and the motor comes complete!!!!!!!
I WANT ONE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quit it, your spending my future bonus checks... that upsets the spouse.

 

[spencurai]

Originally posted by rckcrlr
I agree with Andy ( did I just say that???)
I love the power of the V8.
My wish list is the new Ford Cammer 5.0, based off the modular 4.6. All aluminium twin overhead cams, 425 hp@6700 and 370 ft/lb@4000. Not sure of wieght, but pretty cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Imagine it with a supercharger. Article I saw says there will be 6 different wire harnesses available and the motor comes complete!!!!!!!
I WANT ONE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BBowski took me on a shop tour up at Weber State Automotive Program.

coolest V-8 up there was a Marine Toyota V-8. No Emisisons bullcrap and it was setup to run on a stand. Hook up the Gas, Exhaust and 12V and you are off to the rockcrawl!!! it had a cute little bracket on it to hold the ECM....this thing was just screaming for me to jack it and throw it in my zuk!!!

 

[Andy]

Originally posted by rckcrlr
I agree with Andy ( did I just say that???)
I love the power of the V8.
My wish list is the new Ford Cammer 5.0, based off the modular 4.6. All aluminium twin overhead cams, 425 hp@6700 and 370 ft/lb@4000. Not sure of wieght, but pretty cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Imagine it with a supercharger. Article I saw says there will be 6 different wire harnesses available and the motor comes complete!!!!!!!
I WANT ONE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GET OFF YOUR WALLET AND BUY ONE!!!!