Showoff
This thread nees to stay up top! Those who haven't done it, do it! And get your spouses to do it!
Save the Hammers interaction needed, 1000 signatures/day (goal 30K in 30 days)
- Thread starter jinxspot
- Start date
Showoff
This thread nees to stay up top! Those who haven't done it, do it! And get your spouses to do it!
Ram-on-Rocks!
Member
Signed! 17,869!!!
jinxspot
~ Bush Eater's Offroad ~
- Location
- Salt Lake Utah
There are 6700 sigs left to get filled out... keep promoting the land use issues by doing something about it (2min to teach someone how to login and sign).
TJDukit
I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S.
- Location
- Clearfield
Signed and shared on FB yesterday. I'll share again later.
jinxspot
~ Bush Eater's Offroad ~
- Location
- Salt Lake Utah
~6200 left to go...
jinxspot
~ Bush Eater's Offroad ~
- Location
- Salt Lake Utah
26,152 unique signatures... I'd say that worked
TJDukit
I.Y.A.A.Y.A.S.
- Location
- Clearfield
I'm wondering if the Whitehouses new 100,000 signature rule will apply to this one.
jinxspot
~ Bush Eater's Offroad ~
- Location
- Salt Lake Utah
EXACTLY WHAT I WAS WONDERING!!!! When I passed this info on to a few co-workers they said the same thing.... and I didn't know what to say!
rholbrook
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Kaysville, Ut
Done I am number 26,389
jinxspot
~ Bush Eater's Offroad ~
- Location
- Salt Lake Utah
Just a quick update video....
[video=youtube_share;4TU5ii16wfc]http://youtu.be/4TU5ii16wfc[/video]
[video=youtube_share;4TU5ii16wfc]http://youtu.be/4TU5ii16wfc[/video]
chadschoon
Well-Known Member
- Location
- lehi
so cool
jinxspot
~ Bush Eater's Offroad ~
- Location
- Salt Lake Utah
Just an update, Look what you may have helped with your effort: HR 1676 Cleared the House Natural Resources Committee. We still have several more votes before it can become a law, but we are well on our way! https://www.facebook.com/SaveTheHammers
RockMonkey
Suddenly Enthusiastic
SO awesome.
jinxspot
~ Bush Eater's Offroad ~
- Location
- Salt Lake Utah
King of Hammers race cannot continue under Marine Corps plan...
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:44 pm
In response to Lt. Gen. Richard Mills’ statements regarding the Twentynine Palms Marine base expansion: My name is Dave Cole. I am the owner of King of the Hammers, I am an avid off-roader, I am the son of a retired lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army and I am a father of three. None of those qualifications makes me more of an expert on Marine training needs than the general. For that information, I look to the Marine Corps. After years of studies, the Marine Corps concluded they do not need to expand Twentyine Palms to meet their training needs. They would like it, but don’t need it.
The facts are the Marines identified six alternatives that would meet their training needs. And while Lt. Gen. Mills concedes there was significant public response, he neglects to say over 27,000 letters opposed expansion while four supported it.
The Johnson Valley OHV Area accounts for 50 percent of the Mojave Desert open area for U.S. citizens to recreate and enjoy. The Marines want to cut that amount by 75 percent. Aside from the sheer numbers of acres is the intrinsic value of the land. Johnson Valley is a unique landscape that offers remote desert valleys and majestic mountains. None of those qualities remain in the 43,000 acres left in Alternative 6. The only thing left will be the southern slope of the Fry Mountains, which you can see from Twentynine Palms Highway.
I can speak on authority of one thing: The King of the Hammers race cannot continue under the Marine Corps’ proposed plan. The lieutenant general is either subverting the truth or has been significantly misinformed.
However, racing is not why an overwhelming majority of stakeholders have opposed this expansion. It is not why I oppose the expansion either.
This is where people live. It is where people work. It’s where hundreds of thousands of people recreate. It’s where kids learn how to survive, respect and enjoy nature. Ironically, it’s where Marines are born. If there were an alternative place to do these things, I might have rolled over long ago and yielded to the power of the Marine Corps. However, there is no other place to go. We have lost ,illions of acres of public land in the last 30 years. There is none left. This area needs to be preserved just like Joshua Tree, Yosemite and Redwood National Forest.
Alternative 4, an option born of the Marine Corps and confirmed by the Marine Corps as an effective plan to meet their training needs, preserves that public land. It allows for true shared use, not the appearance of shared use as called for in Lt. Gen. Mills’ plan. Congressman Paul Cook, himself a retired Marine colonel, not only supported Alternative 4, he carried it as a bill in the House of Representatives. The Marines offered little objection in the House. They believe they have the political power with Sen. Dianne Feinstein to impose their will in the Senate.
It is time, as citizens, to stand for what we believe in. Don’t be confused that supporting Alternative 4 is somehow un-American. Alternative 4 has received unanimous support from every local government, across party lines. Off-roaders and environmentalists are on the same page. Local residents and businesses agree as well. The more you look at the facts, the more it is clear. Support your military, support public land for public use, support your community. Support Alternative 4.
Paul Cook has done something we all wish our political leaders would do more of. He minimized “political” and exemplified “leader.” Make your voices heard and do the same.
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:44 pm
In response to Lt. Gen. Richard Mills’ statements regarding the Twentynine Palms Marine base expansion: My name is Dave Cole. I am the owner of King of the Hammers, I am an avid off-roader, I am the son of a retired lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army and I am a father of three. None of those qualifications makes me more of an expert on Marine training needs than the general. For that information, I look to the Marine Corps. After years of studies, the Marine Corps concluded they do not need to expand Twentyine Palms to meet their training needs. They would like it, but don’t need it.
The facts are the Marines identified six alternatives that would meet their training needs. And while Lt. Gen. Mills concedes there was significant public response, he neglects to say over 27,000 letters opposed expansion while four supported it.
The Johnson Valley OHV Area accounts for 50 percent of the Mojave Desert open area for U.S. citizens to recreate and enjoy. The Marines want to cut that amount by 75 percent. Aside from the sheer numbers of acres is the intrinsic value of the land. Johnson Valley is a unique landscape that offers remote desert valleys and majestic mountains. None of those qualities remain in the 43,000 acres left in Alternative 6. The only thing left will be the southern slope of the Fry Mountains, which you can see from Twentynine Palms Highway.
I can speak on authority of one thing: The King of the Hammers race cannot continue under the Marine Corps’ proposed plan. The lieutenant general is either subverting the truth or has been significantly misinformed.
However, racing is not why an overwhelming majority of stakeholders have opposed this expansion. It is not why I oppose the expansion either.
This is where people live. It is where people work. It’s where hundreds of thousands of people recreate. It’s where kids learn how to survive, respect and enjoy nature. Ironically, it’s where Marines are born. If there were an alternative place to do these things, I might have rolled over long ago and yielded to the power of the Marine Corps. However, there is no other place to go. We have lost ,illions of acres of public land in the last 30 years. There is none left. This area needs to be preserved just like Joshua Tree, Yosemite and Redwood National Forest.
Alternative 4, an option born of the Marine Corps and confirmed by the Marine Corps as an effective plan to meet their training needs, preserves that public land. It allows for true shared use, not the appearance of shared use as called for in Lt. Gen. Mills’ plan. Congressman Paul Cook, himself a retired Marine colonel, not only supported Alternative 4, he carried it as a bill in the House of Representatives. The Marines offered little objection in the House. They believe they have the political power with Sen. Dianne Feinstein to impose their will in the Senate.
It is time, as citizens, to stand for what we believe in. Don’t be confused that supporting Alternative 4 is somehow un-American. Alternative 4 has received unanimous support from every local government, across party lines. Off-roaders and environmentalists are on the same page. Local residents and businesses agree as well. The more you look at the facts, the more it is clear. Support your military, support public land for public use, support your community. Support Alternative 4.
Paul Cook has done something we all wish our political leaders would do more of. He minimized “political” and exemplified “leader.” Make your voices heard and do the same.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
I got a response from the whitehouse today:
What We Have to Say About Johnson Valley
By John Conger, Acting Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Installations and Environment at the Department of Defense.
Thank you for your petition.
The Administration's proposal for expansion of the land reserved for use by the Marine Corps balances Marine Corps training requirements that extend throughout the year with preserving safe public access for recreational activities within certain areas of the Johnson Valley Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) Area. The proposal was transmitted to Congress for consideration on April 26, 2013, because, for areas greater than 5,000 acres, Congress is responsible for creating and renewing withdrawal of public land for military training and testing.
This base expansion plan was developed over the course of nine years in consultation with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), community leaders, and recreational users and was subject to an environmental impact statement that assessed the needs, alternatives and impacts of large-scale training exercises at the Twentynine Palms Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center.
If enacted, the proposal would affect approximately 188,000 acres of the Johnson Valley Area: 42,000 acres would be designated for recreational use, 43,000 acres would be shared recreational and military use, and 103,000 acres would be reserved for exclusive military use. The 42,000 acre recreational use area and the 43,000 acre shared use area would remain under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of the Interior, managed by the BLM. The 43,000 acre shared use area would be available for public recreation, except for two 30-day periods annually, when it would be closed to the public for military use. In addition, the Administration also proposes to designate these approximately 85,000 acres of land (the 42,000 acres and 43,000 acres referenced above) as the “Johnson Valley Off Highway Vehicle Recreation Area” under management of the BLM. This area would remain available for OHV recreational activities, both informal and organized. Approximately 103,000 acres of the 188,000 acre area would be reserved for exclusive military use. The King of the Hammers race is an example of the type of organized race that could continue in the shared use area. This race, which has in the past crossed both what would be the shared use area and the exclusive use area, has been a significant generator of economic activity associated with OHV recreation in the Johnson Valley Area, accounting for over 15% of the total yearly visitation. In addition the Marine Corps will consider, on a case by case basis and under controlled conditions, the use of this exclusive military use area for organized races, including the King of the Hammers race.
Enactment of this proposal is essential to provide the space required to train Marines for specific missions and to ensure the Marines' continued success when called upon. There are no other Marine Corps properties where this requirement can be met. Marines need to train in as close to a real-world setting as possible and Marine Expeditionary Brigade (MEB) training must allow Marines to conduct intensive operations over extended distances that allow for maneuvering in the presence of ground and air live-fire. A MEB consists of 15,000 Marines and sailors, and their aviation and ground combat equipment, including artillery and mortars. Currently, training of this scope must rely on classroom instruction and simulation which cannot provide realistic and practical experience for command, control, and maneuver. This absence of a MEB-level training range limits Marine Corps readiness by leaving the USMC without a venue for conducting fully integrated, live fire MEB training.
Since 2000, the Department of the Navy has intensively studied the Marines' warfighting requirements. In November 2000, the Marine Corps published Marine Corps Strategy 21, which identified the MEB as the primary contingency response force of the Marine Corps. An independent study by CNA's Center for Naval Analyses in 2004 concluded that MEB-level realistic large-scale air, ground training is essential for the Marine Corps to prepare units to respond to large-scale contingencies, and that this training can only be conducted at an expanded Twentynine Palms. In 2008, the Office of the Secretary of Defense, Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics, concurred. In February 2013, after nine years of study and analysis, the Marine Corps determined the only viable cost effective alternative was to expand the Twentynine Palms training area into the Johnson Valley OHV Area.
The Department of the Navy's Environmental Impact Statement evaluated the economic impacts of the proposed expansion on communities and businesses. The proposed base expansion would provide net benefits to the local economy, including 110 new jobs, $4 million in additional salaries, and $7.5 million in additional regional sales. This would be in addition to the existing contributions by Twentynine Palms to the local economy, including a 2012 workforce payroll of approximately $600 million (most of which is spent in the local area by personnel stationed and employed on the base), $1.8 million from the U.S. Department of Education to San Bernardino County schools, and base contracts valued at $28 million awarded to local vendors. The increase in jobs and expenditures is expected to offset a projected loss from the recreational and film industries of $1.5 million in sales and $216,000 in taxes. (The $1.5 million in sales represents approximately .01% of the $1.1 billion in sales the Retail Trade and Accommodation/Food Services sectors of Yucca Valley, Apple Valley and Victorville generate annually).
The Department of the Navy places a high value on maintaining positive relationships in the communities in which they are based and Johnson Valley is no exception. The development of this proposal has been carried out in consideration of extensive public input with the goal of balancing the needs of Marine Corps' training requirements with existing recreational activities.
Tell us what you think about this response and We the People.
Stay Connected
What We Have to Say About Johnson Valley
By John Conger, Acting Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Installations and Environment at the Department of Defense.
Thank you for your petition.
The Administration's proposal for expansion of the land reserved for use by the Marine Corps balances Marine Corps training requirements that extend throughout the year with preserving safe public access for recreational activities within certain areas of the Johnson Valley Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) Area. The proposal was transmitted to Congress for consideration on April 26, 2013, because, for areas greater than 5,000 acres, Congress is responsible for creating and renewing withdrawal of public land for military training and testing.
This base expansion plan was developed over the course of nine years in consultation with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), community leaders, and recreational users and was subject to an environmental impact statement that assessed the needs, alternatives and impacts of large-scale training exercises at the Twentynine Palms Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center.
If enacted, the proposal would affect approximately 188,000 acres of the Johnson Valley Area: 42,000 acres would be designated for recreational use, 43,000 acres would be shared recreational and military use, and 103,000 acres would be reserved for exclusive military use. The 42,000 acre recreational use area and the 43,000 acre shared use area would remain under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of the Interior, managed by the BLM. The 43,000 acre shared use area would be available for public recreation, except for two 30-day periods annually, when it would be closed to the public for military use. In addition, the Administration also proposes to designate these approximately 85,000 acres of land (the 42,000 acres and 43,000 acres referenced above) as the “Johnson Valley Off Highway Vehicle Recreation Area” under management of the BLM. This area would remain available for OHV recreational activities, both informal and organized. Approximately 103,000 acres of the 188,000 acre area would be reserved for exclusive military use. The King of the Hammers race is an example of the type of organized race that could continue in the shared use area. This race, which has in the past crossed both what would be the shared use area and the exclusive use area, has been a significant generator of economic activity associated with OHV recreation in the Johnson Valley Area, accounting for over 15% of the total yearly visitation. In addition the Marine Corps will consider, on a case by case basis and under controlled conditions, the use of this exclusive military use area for organized races, including the King of the Hammers race.
Enactment of this proposal is essential to provide the space required to train Marines for specific missions and to ensure the Marines' continued success when called upon. There are no other Marine Corps properties where this requirement can be met. Marines need to train in as close to a real-world setting as possible and Marine Expeditionary Brigade (MEB) training must allow Marines to conduct intensive operations over extended distances that allow for maneuvering in the presence of ground and air live-fire. A MEB consists of 15,000 Marines and sailors, and their aviation and ground combat equipment, including artillery and mortars. Currently, training of this scope must rely on classroom instruction and simulation which cannot provide realistic and practical experience for command, control, and maneuver. This absence of a MEB-level training range limits Marine Corps readiness by leaving the USMC without a venue for conducting fully integrated, live fire MEB training.
Since 2000, the Department of the Navy has intensively studied the Marines' warfighting requirements. In November 2000, the Marine Corps published Marine Corps Strategy 21, which identified the MEB as the primary contingency response force of the Marine Corps. An independent study by CNA's Center for Naval Analyses in 2004 concluded that MEB-level realistic large-scale air, ground training is essential for the Marine Corps to prepare units to respond to large-scale contingencies, and that this training can only be conducted at an expanded Twentynine Palms. In 2008, the Office of the Secretary of Defense, Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics, concurred. In February 2013, after nine years of study and analysis, the Marine Corps determined the only viable cost effective alternative was to expand the Twentynine Palms training area into the Johnson Valley OHV Area.
The Department of the Navy's Environmental Impact Statement evaluated the economic impacts of the proposed expansion on communities and businesses. The proposed base expansion would provide net benefits to the local economy, including 110 new jobs, $4 million in additional salaries, and $7.5 million in additional regional sales. This would be in addition to the existing contributions by Twentynine Palms to the local economy, including a 2012 workforce payroll of approximately $600 million (most of which is spent in the local area by personnel stationed and employed on the base), $1.8 million from the U.S. Department of Education to San Bernardino County schools, and base contracts valued at $28 million awarded to local vendors. The increase in jobs and expenditures is expected to offset a projected loss from the recreational and film industries of $1.5 million in sales and $216,000 in taxes. (The $1.5 million in sales represents approximately .01% of the $1.1 billion in sales the Retail Trade and Accommodation/Food Services sectors of Yucca Valley, Apple Valley and Victorville generate annually).
The Department of the Navy places a high value on maintaining positive relationships in the communities in which they are based and Johnson Valley is no exception. The development of this proposal has been carried out in consideration of extensive public input with the goal of balancing the needs of Marine Corps' training requirements with existing recreational activities.
Tell us what you think about this response and We the People.
Stay Connected
Last edited:
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
Which alternative is the John Conger letter supporting?
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
The way I understand it is that they're proposing splitting the land up into three sections. One for public use, one for shared public/ military use, and one section for military only, no public use (although some sanctioned races like koh can happen there).
It seems to me that creating 100+ new jobs and generating more revenue through taxes is a major motivator here.
It seems to me that creating 100+ new jobs and generating more revenue through taxes is a major motivator here.