SB 22 Need some Suggested Changes

[del0075]

I plan on being ready in about 3 weeks to go through the process. Part of the problem is I don't even know where to get it inspected or how to start the process. I think this is such a new concept that the procedure hasn't been worked out? Do I start with the DMV or go to the dreaded (shudder) UHP?

i am ready now, but dont now where to take it or what i need to do... i will be checking into today or tomorrow

 

[Bart]

I am swamped right now getting ready to leave for KOH on Saturday morning. When I get back on the 3rd I'll start checking to see where we go for license and inspection, unless someone wants to do this sooner. I'd imagine we could call an ATV place and ask them what process they go through.

 

[SAMI]

Keep Robby in mind too for inspecting his rig as an OHV.

So that's 3 now?

 

[scoutabout]

I don't know if you are getting our email alerts but our meetings are not closed door meetings, nor have they ever been. We do like to know who is coming and we do screen people, imagine if some SUWA mole tried to come to our meetings. We also may excuse visitors when we are discussing sensitive legal issues. The rumor you heard was perpetuated by those who had problems with USA-ALL and became hostile to our organization. When USA-ALL imploded beginning in March or April of 2007 and for a good year thereafter we were understandably extra cautious about whom we let in. That is when the disinformation really propagated.

Feel free to take your bullsh!t lies somewhere else. Your own statements in this post contradict an "open meeting" policy. Meeting access is by approval only, you just stated this in your post. I recall a particular meeting in 2007 where your president, Derk Beckstrand, threatened to call the police when a non board member showed up. Luckily, a few other board members stood up and demanded that Derk cool his jets and be reasonable. At that point, a vote was made to set a policy that the board would decide on an individual basis who would or wouldn't be allowed to visit a meeting. "Pre-screening" and "case by case decision" is NOT an "open meeting" policy. Just say it like it is instead of continuing to lie to everyone.

Speaking of rumors, the ones you are spreading have been making their way back to me pretty regularly. Thanks for proving my point to the people who now know your mode of operation.

As for SB22, you stated that you would kill this bill if it wasn't changed to allow 4x4 OHV buggies to maintain the opportunity to register as a street-legal ATV. We've answered all of your questions. 4x4 users supported the first bill so we could have this opportunity. We will not accept a promise to address it in the "next session."

You've stated that the UHP/DMV have indicated that a 4x4 OHV buggy is already excluded from the current street legal ATV classification. Specifically, how so? Please provide this information.

 

[utahmike]

Like I said..."Hostile".

 

[Bear T]

Hey Bart and Corbin,

My brother is a certified safety and I/M guy at LKC Automotive in Pleasant Grove. We have been talking a lot about what makes an atv street legal and what the current laws are based on the manual he has, which is the latest laws.

He is also certified for inspecting ATV's. I would swing by and talk to him, his name is Gary. LKC is located on State St in Pleasant Grove just north of the smiths on the same side of the road.

 

[Bear T]

Having integrity and pointing out someone elses lies is not "hostile", its called having a spine and being a man. I have heard the same stories of your "open door" policy, some of which have come straight from USA-All board members mouth's.

My favorite quote of all time, "tell the truth, you'll have less to remember"

 

[Bart]

Hey Bart and Corbin,

My brother is a certified safety and I/M guy at LKC Automotive in Pleasant Grove. We have been talking a lot about what makes an atv street legal and what the current laws are based on the manual he has, which is the latest laws.

He is also certified for inspecting ATV's. I would swing by and talk to him, his name is Gary. LKC is located on State St in Pleasant Grove just north of the smiths on the same side of the road.

Great news. I will get out there and bug him when I get in town on the 3rd. Thanks for the heads up.

As for what's going on with Mike and USA All, I guess I'm not privy to what happened in the past, but in the conversations I've had with Mike, he's been the only encouraging voice to help with this and he has the ear of the legislature. I would vote we put the past behind us and work together to fight this thing.

 

[anderson750]

As for what's going on with Mike and USA All, I guess I'm not privy to what happened in the past, but in the conversations I've had with Mike, he's been the only encouraging voice to help with this and he has the ear of the legislature.

I don't know all the details of what has happened in the past , but I can tell you that I am one of the non board members who has attended a few USA-All board meetings. I called Mike told him who I was, what my interests and concerns were and he invited me to attend. I agree with the philosophy to not have a meeting where just anybody can come sit in on it. If the board is talking about a legal action they are going to get involved in, you would not want somebody who can play the part of an OHV enthusiast but is there to gather information to use against us to be there. But come on, SUWA could never be that smart.....oh yeah there was that guy who falsely bid on oil leases. SUWA has never claimed ownership of that act, but you cannot deny the possiblity that they had a part in it.

I believe the open door can best be interpreted as USA-All has an open door to people who want to be a productive part of the organization. If you are an enthusiast who wants to contribute our sweat equity to the organization, I have no doubts the board would welcome you in.

I would vote we put the past behind us and work together to fight this thing

I agree 100%. It is obvious to me that some people have an ax to grind with USA-All and would like nothing more than to see them fail. That is their own business, I won't be a part of it. My only interest is protecting what is important to me in regards to access to public land. I have found that USA-All (Mike and the board members I have met) have been very good and focused on moving forward in a manner that benefits the whole OHV community. Are they going to do things the way that every individual wants them done.....absolutely not. You will never satisfy everyone.

I have heard people say that USA-All leaves the full size community out. I have not seen that at any of the meetings I have been to. In fact, the full size community has been a big part of the discussions. What I have seen is a lack of involvment from the full size community in USA-All. Really, there is only 2 choices.

1. Be a part of the problem
2. Be a part of the solution


The choice is up to each individual.

 

[scoutabout]

I don't know all the details of what has happened in the past , but I can tell you that I am one of the non board members who has attended a few USA-All board meetings. I called Mike told him who I was, what my interests and concerns were and he invited me to attend. I agree with the philosophy to not have a meeting where just anybody can come sit in on it.

Right, not an "open meeting" policy as was falsely claimed.

I agree 100%. It is obvious to me that some people have an ax to grind with USA-All and would like nothing more than to see them fail. That is their own business, I won't be a part of it. My only interest is protecting what is important to me in regards to access to public land. I have found that USA-All (Mike and the board members I have met) have been very good and focused on moving forward in a manner that benefits the whole OHV community. Are they going to do things the way that every individual wants them done.....absolutely not. You will never satisfy everyone.

You guys are right, you don't know the story. I think I will publish it however as I'm tired of seeing all the lies and jabs from Mike Swenson. Many people (USA-ALL's board primarily) pleaded that I not reveal what I know in hopes that USA-ALL could move forward with the status quo. That was a mistake on my part. I should have followed my instincts so USA-ALL could actually move forward in a positive direction and become the competent and capable organization the OHV community needs at this important time.

Despite the lies Mike Swenson and his surrogates try to propogate, no one is against USA-ALL, no one wants USA-ALL to fail. It is true that there are people opposed to Mike Swenson (myself included), primarily this is a result of his actions which revealed his true character. I'm only aware of one person who wanted to destroy USA-ALL: Mike Swenson. Maybe Mike wants to tell the story of how he threatened to sue USA-ALL out of existence after he "resigned" 10 minutes before he was scheduled to be fired. Or how he was pacified to stop his threats of lawsuits. Might be interesting reading for all his friends who just want to "move on."

No, I'm not a life-long Swenson "hater". I was one of the few USA-ALL board members trying to defend Mike Swenson when Rainer Huck wanted to fire him in January 2007. I defended Mike. I put off Rainer's attempts. I lobbied for the raise Mike received in March 2007. Then as Vice President of USA-ALL, I took over when both Mike and Rainer left within a month of each other. At that point, I started to see what was really going on. Very concerning.

I'm happy to continue. I think I need to do what I should have done over a year ago and put an end to the Swenson spin by going public with everything exactly as it happened. I'd like to remove the "it's the fault of our detractors" excuse being used to explain all of USA-ALL's problems. It's very convenient to blame poor performance on others, but it's not truthful. Busting ass for 3 months before and during the legislative session doesn't make up for inaction, complete lack of strategy, and other deficiencies.

Where is the USA-ALL that the OHV community so desperately needs? Where is the USA-ALL who lives by this mission statement:

"To defend equality of shared access, educate the public, and empower user groups while conserving our public lands for the benefit of all."

That's the supposed mission statement for USA-ALL.

Sorry to mix this up in a thread about an actual issue, but I can't stand by any longer and ignore Mike Swenson's lies while he knows that I committed not to say anything "for the good of the cause." Keeping quiet hasn't done the cause very much good so far.

 

[utahmike]

No Hard Feelings

There is so much I could respond to but I really don't think it would change anyone’s mind. I will simply say there are multiple sides to the sad fall out USA-ALL had back then. When things imploded I felt as though I were living in a twilight zone. A few trusted friends turned on me, and I felt like I was fighting for my life. But even so I was willing to leave. I just wanted the back pay that was owed to me, I couldn't afford to let all of it go; I had already given so much to the organization. With no guarantee of ever receiving owed money I left the organization and didn't plan on returning.

Steve is entitled to his opinions, but it doesn't mean they are all accurate. It should make one wonder why the board welcomed Derk Back, a former board member who left amidst the fall out, removed Steve as acting president and executive director, placed Derk as president, asked me back (I didn't approach them), gave me the latitude to do what I felt best, and then a few months later asked Steve to resign from our board. The board didn't agree with Steve’s assessment of me or the implosion. That’s why they asked me back, that’s why I am still here. If I am so evil, and such a liar you think they would have forgot about me and embraced other people and ideas. But that’s not what happened. I do admit it was an ugly time, and the political wrangling and spinning was as bad as I have ever seen. It got dirty. I hope to never see anything like that again. Despite all the bad things that went on I don't hate Steve, I don’t have time or energy to think too much about it. I do try to understand his forum posts and address his concerns when they are legitimate. I think he wants to protect access to public land like many of us, but he and I disagree on methods, and when we disagree with him he seems to take it personally. I do wish he would be more positive and constructively critical instead of trying to pick us and other orgs apart. I guess it goes with the territory that I will make friends and enemies; I just never expected do make an enemy of a fellow off-roader.

I would disagree with much of his claims of impropriety, lack of strategy, or caring, lack of effort, etc. But some of Steve's criticism is spot on, we need BETTER strategy, we need MORE support to implement effective strategy, we need to BETTER support user groups, we need and have improved on more openness, transparency, and accountability. We need BETTER unity. We need a stronger board and more volunteers. The bottom line is we need help and I'm not afraid to admit that.

The importance of these access issues are much bigger than not liking someone in one organization, we have to look at the bigger picture.

Steve I really don't like things that when on in the past on all sides, I'm sure I didn't handle things as well as I could. If I could do it again I would do a few things differently. But I can't go back, only forward. I also have had and dealt with bad feelings for things you did or didn't do, but that is water under the bridge. I won’t forget the past but for the most part I have forgiven, and I’m moving on. While we may never be on each other’s Christmas card list, I hope we can work together, directing our obvious strong personalities and energy toward something that will benefit our community; I am willing to sit down and talk with you anytime. I may need an armed body guard but I actually would be happy to meet with you. I am willing to listen to all and implement some of your ideas about planning and strategy. But I would ask that you consider our input and that from sources like BRC, County Commissioners, and others. We often talk with those parties about what works and what doesn't. I value and trust their input.

This underlying belief you have that USA-ALL or Mike Swenson is so devious and underhanded is concerning to me and not true. But I am not sure if or how I can ever change how you feel about that. I am certainly not perfect, but man, I'm trying to do my best, with impossible odds against me, and relatively little support behind me. I wish I were better. I am sorry if you have such contempt for me. I am sorry for offending you, I am sorry for how the board treated you, I am sorry for how you treated me and the board, I am sorry things didn't work out differently. But honestly your hostility towards me doesn't help your cause. No one benefits from the mudslinging. I take that back...SUWA and Co. do benefit. I wonder if we need to get together, and talk it out. If nothing more than to quit giving SUWA lurkers something to smile about let’s meet, talk things out, let things go, shake hands, and put this to bed. We could be pretty good if we worked together. So?

 

[scoutabout]

There is so much I could respond to but I really don't think it would change anyone’s mind.

You have full opportunity to respond to anything I publish. Please point out any factual innacuracies.

I just wanted the back pay that was owed to me, I couldn't afford to let all of it go;

All USA-ALL wanted was it's property and account passwords during the two months I was trying to contact you to make an exchange. Your letter to Bryant Furness spelled out your agenda. This will be part of the documentation I will publish so everyone can make their own judgment.

Steve is entitled to his opinions, but it doesn't mean they are all accurate.

Please, enlighten the readers. What have I stated that is innacurate?

It should make one wonder why the board welcomed Derk Back, a former board member who left amidst the fall out,

Derk left on his own accord after a phone conversation between he and USA-ALL's number one supporter resulted in that person completely pulling their support. The way this person recounted the conversation to me was, "No one in my life has ever spoken to me in such a rude and innapropriate manner." Rainer indicated to the board that he unilateraly removed Derk from the board. I opposed this attempted move and made it clear to Rainer that he did not have authority to remove a board member without vote or discussion. Then Derk removed himself anyway.

removed Steve as acting president and executive director

Sort of. I was acting president, a new president got elected, I went back to being vice president. My 3 month contract as pro-tem ED did not end until a couple weeks after you were rehired.

asked me back (I didn't approach them)

Do you think I'm not going to read your posts or what? Your letter to Bryant Furness clearly states your agenda which included a request to be rehired at USA-ALL after you "decided" against going to law school. Also, you weren't rehired until I made it clear that I wasn't interested in working for USA-ALL long term.

gave me the latitude to do what I felt best

This is one of my biggest beefs with USA-ALL today. Latitude should be replaced with unsupervised freedom. As in: no one is minding the store. USA-ALL is practically the private operation of Mike Swenson. When I took over at USA-ALL after everyone departed, I found out what this really meant. I found out what Mike liked to do when no one was looking. It'll all be in the information I'll be publishing shortly. Then everyone can make their own decision.

and then a few months later asked Steve to resign from our board.

This is one of the greatest stories of the whole affair. For anyone interested in seeing how USA-ALL works, please read.

In October of 2007, Jack Johnston (a board member for USA-ALL and U4WDA) made a motion at the U4WDA board meeting that U4WDA withhold financial support from USA-ALL until some basic conditions are met (appropriate accounting, fair fundraiser compensation, open meetings, etc).

As then president of U4WDA, I presided over the vote. By presided that means I heard the motion, someone seconded the motion, we had a discussion and then I called for a vote. I didn't vote, and I didn't have to. The vote was unanimous to support Jack Johnston's recommendation. Fast forward 3 months to January '08. USA-ALL decides that I broke fiduciary trust by presiding over this vote and decides to oust me from their board. I find this interesting since Jack is still on their board to this day and he was the one who recommended that U4WDA withdraw current and future financial support from USA-ALL.

My theory about the real reason I was removed from USA-ALL's board is related to financial accountability. One of the biggest problems I unearthed at USA-ALL was a complete lack of financial records for things like expense reimbursements and mysterious cash withdrawals (written on lobby checks). As Mike got back into his routine as USA-ALL's ED, I again started seeing some mysterious payments. Requests to the "new treasurer" to explain these payments were occasionally met with zero response. Why wouldn't the treasurer be able to explain why Mike was writing himself checks for "reimbursements" without any accounting backup? Obviously, it's just easier to get rid of the guy asking questions rather than ask where the money is really going. Also, at this point I was making it very clear that I had zero respect for Mike Swenson and felt that the only way USA-ALL could move forward would be with a new employee. In their position, I would have removed me too. But, I would have been a man about it by being honest instead of making something up. Cowards.

The board didn't agree with Steve’s assessment of me or the implosion.

Not quite. When you took those checks and tried to cash them, the remaining board members asked me to report you to the police for felony theft right away. I kept thinking that there had to be an explanation. So, I kept trying to contact you. For 2 months. I just couldn't believe that this was the Mike Swenson I knew and supported. It wasn't until much later that I found out this was part of your strategy to delay or destroy USA-ALL to the point where there was no "choice" but to rehire you. Note to all bank account holders: you MUST report fraud within 30 calendar days of receiving your statement or they won't do ANYTHING! At least that's the policy at Zions bank anyway. I found this out the hard way.

That’s why they asked me back, that’s why I am still here.

Ask Derk, Bryant and Doug. I doubt they'll answer truthfully, but they were assuming you were being honest about your stated intention to leave (again) for law school the following summer. I was not so naive.

If I am so evil, and such a liar you think they would have forgot about me and embraced other people and ideas.

But it's really very simple. You already know the answer. The RMP's were weeks away, the legislative session was months away, and many other OHV issues were upcoming. Supposedly, Mike Swenson was USA-ALL's best bet to make an immediate impact. We know that you did NOTHING for the RMP's (except send out BRC's action alert with your own logo in place of theirs). It was so much easier to go back to the status quo than to do the hard work of building a better organization.

I would disagree with much of his claims of impropriety, lack of strategy, or caring, lack of effort, etc.

Please, open up all of your accounting records for the last 18 months including original bank statements, and definitely show us that strategy you said you were working on in a post here on RME several months ago.

But some of Steve's criticism is spot on, we need BETTER strategy, we need MORE support to implement effective strategy, we need to BETTER support user groups, we need and have improved on more openness, transparency, and accountability. We need BETTER unity. We need a stronger board and more volunteers. The bottom line is we need help and I'm not afraid to admit that.

You forgot the primary and most important necessity: integrity. Without it, everything else is meaningless. When donors can't trust you with their money, they send it somewhere else.

Think about why you don't receive more help. The excuse that you have "detractors" only goes so far.

While we may never be on each other’s Christmas card list

I actually thought of buying you a gift last Christmas. Before being involved with this situation, I had never dealt with someone as dishonest and manipulative as you. I never knew just how hard liars work to protect their own reality. It prepared me for my next contract in a way that I never would have imagined. I got to make a lot of money last year, and I was able to buy another business in January of this year thanks to the lessons I learned from dealing with you. I really do need to send you that $100 gift card I've been thinking about.

 

[scoutabout]

Post separated due to length over 10,000 characters.

I hope we can work together, directing our obvious strong personalities and energy toward something that will benefit our community;

You bet! I'd love to help you find a new job somewhere else, or I'd be happy to help you with your law school applications. I'll even give you a partial scholarship.

I am willing to sit down and talk with you anytime. I may need an armed body guard but I actually would be happy to meet with you. I am willing to listen to all and implement some of your ideas about planning and strategy.

The first component of my strategy is to fill the positions of leadership at USA-ALL with people of integrity. Let me know when that's done.

This underlying belief you have that USA-ALL or Mike Swenson is so devious and underhanded is concerning to me and not true.

I'll publish what I should have published back in October 2007, and we can let everyone make up their own minds. I don't think USA-ALL is inherently devious, but only insomuch as you are allowed to operate practically unsupervised.

I am sorry things didn't work out differently.

Me too. I often think about what we'd have today if USA-ALL had been able to follow the plan that was already in motion to hire one of the several suitable applicants as a new ED, implement infrastructure controls to maintain the business, and develop a strategy to win instead of just tread water. It could've been awesome.

let’s meet, talk things out, let things go, shake hands, and put this to bed. We could be pretty good if we worked together. So?

Do not attempt to deflect. Start by telling everyone what "opinions" I have that are "innacurate"? We can keep going back and forth, or you can respond to the full story when I publish it online. I won't bring that to RME, it'll be posted somewhere else. I think it's important to discuss this in public and in writing. It will be to everyone's benefit to see this discussed on the record and in the open.

I will publish the full timeline and documentation detailing what everyone did and what happened at USA-ALL. Anyone will have the opportunity to digest the information, make their own judgment, offer rebuttal and provide comment.

I must apologize to Rainer Huck, Dan Thomas, and the OHV community of Utah. I was entrusted with saving USA-ALL, and I failed. I was outplayed by an experienced politician pursuing a personal agenda. I failed miserably. I failed further by sitting quiet and letting this go on for so long. Publishing the truth may not change much, but at least the truth will finally be out there for everyone to review.

 

[scoutabout]

It occurred to me that there's probably a gross misconception regarding how many people have ever heard about any of this before reading it here. Most people are probably completely indifferent at this point. It seems apparent to me that the number of people I've spoken to about this is much smaller than the number of people Mike Swenson has spoken to about this.

Additionally, I do NOT represent U4WDA in this discussion in anyway.

U4WDA has no official position on USA-ALL and supports organizations based on the benefit they provide to the 4x4 and OHV communities in general.

 

[utahmike]

Steve,

I really feel bad about how you feel. I don't agree with all that you claim. But I can understand why you have interpreted things a certain way. I will admit that things could (then and now) be run better, tighter, etc. I would love more oversight; it would protect me from false claims of stealing & embezzling like the ones you have made. I think you and I just should have sat down and worked things out, but I viewed you as a serious enemy and one that was trying to undermine, malign and harm me in an underhanded way. Perhaps this wasn't the case. You know when things went bad and you were trying to contact me (it's true I withheld passwords and some property) I was not in the country. I had been planning a vacation for many months, after USA-ALL withheld my last few paychecks I almost didn't have the money to go but I had already paid for half of the trip so we went anyway. It helped; I really needed to get away. For most of May and until the middle of July I was in the country for about 2 weeks. I wasn’t avoiding you. I just wasn’t around. I would have loved to resolve things before I left but it didn't happen. When I got back the messages you had left me and the threats you made inspired me to not speak to you directly, it seemed you wouldn’t be reasoned with. You had wrongly developed an opinion of things and were hostile towards me. I began preparations for defending myself as it seemed I was under direct attack from you. Perhaps I should have contacted you directly but I was so mad and hurt by what went on the way a friend (i.e. you) had turned on me that I didn't have the stomach for it then.

Anyway, post whatever you want. Just be truthful. There are many sides to the story. Neither of us fully knows those sides. For your information I went and consulted with the Utah County Assistant District Attorney back then to see if I was on solid legal ground, and I was and still am. I also met with an attorney on our board that supported the DA’s assessment. I also met with a detective from Payson City Police, who came to our offices and talked with me as a result of the report you filed. The case was immediately closed and no charges were ever filed. I gave all of these gentlemen the full and complete story and access to all our records. Steve there was nothing illegal or wrong going on, just some bad management, which as you have noted includes the board. I was just trying to do the best I could with what I had. I think we all just hunkered down in our bunkers and lobbed bombs at each other instead of sitting down and working things out, we also made assumptions of one another that are not accurate. I am as much to blame for that behavior as anyone else. I too have learned. At this point I don’t really care who was right or wrong. With fighting like this we all lose regardless of who is right. I know I made mistakes, I know USA-ALL has problems. But we are also facing an impossible task with the world against us, it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be better but hopefully people understand, and are more forgiving.

I can forgive you Steve for things you did wrong; I can let this all go and move on. Really I already have. I hope you can forgive me for genuine mistakes I made and any offense. I hope after you publish your story you can get back to being the proactive and energetic advocate that I knew before.

USA-ALL really needs help to improve and be stronger, I know I can help them do that but I can't do it alone, much of your criticism is justified and accurate, hopefully we can get folks involved who can help us be better.

I'm happy for your success and wish you the best. Law school is still probably in my future, right now with my wife in law school at BYU it would be pretty hard for me to also attend. So we will wait until she is finished.

I just want you and others to know that USA-ALL has made many changes to improve things as a result of all the fall-out which transpired a year and a half ago. We still need to make changes but things like accounting has improved significantly. I do still need help with membership management stuff. I will allow the review of our books by you or anyone else who wants to. I won't publish them for obvious reasons, but you can meet me and go through them and the bank accounts anytime. You will see then that we REALLY need help if we are to effectively fight these battles.

Again Steve, I am just trying my best, I'm tired from fighting a lot of battles with limited support, I don't have the stamina to continue the internal fighting so win, lose, or draw consider me out of this internal fight. I am reserving my energies to fight true enemies and battles that our members care about. I hope when we do well you will be there to support us.

For what its worth I hope you continue to have success in your life, and that we can forgive and move on.

If you come to EJS come say. "Hi" lets talk or go to dinner or something, I know we could patch things up.

Either way I am not going to fight with you anymore. In my mind I have forgiven, sincerely asked for forgiveness, admitted legitimate wrong doing and mistakes, and am committed to improving. This whole fight \ saga is now water under the bridge.

Best Wishes & Take Care

 

[scoutabout]

I don't agree with all that you claim.

Please make everyone aware of anything you consider inaccurate, but back it up with factual information. I've asked at least 3 times in this thread alone. Your lack of response seems to indicate that there is nothing to counter. This does not jive with the statements you are making.

it would protect me from false claims of stealing & embezzling like the ones you have made.

You are aware that these claims are not false.

You know when things went bad and you were trying to contact me (it's true I withheld passwords and some property) I was not in the country.

I know exactly when you were and weren't in town. I know you were available to make many phone calls lobbying for a coup. It's documented, it'll be available.

When I got back the messages you had left me and the threats you made inspired me to not speak to you directly, it seemed you wouldn’t be reasoned with.

After several weeks, I did have to indicate that we would be contacting the police regarding the stolen property, the stolen checks, and the checks illegally written and cashed. I'm sure you kept some of the messages. Please feel free to publish them for anyone to hear what I said. There was nothing inappropriate about anything I said.

Anyway, post whatever you want. Just be truthful.

You know this has all been truthful.

For your information I went and consulted with the Utah County Assistant District Attorney back then to see if I was on solid legal ground, and I was and still am.

I have no doubt that many people agree with the stories you tell.

The case was immediately closed and no charges were ever filed.

When the bank doesn't pursue it, neither do the police. It seems very lucky for you that I waited longer than I should have to file a claim with the bank, which then required filing a report with the police. By that time the bank wasn't obligated to return USA-ALL's money. If the bank doesn't press it, the police don't either.

I think we all just hunkered down in our bunkers and lobbed bombs at each other instead of sitting down and working things out

All you had to do was call, you knew how to reach me. I know you were holding out to execute a coup and rehire yourself. Good work.

But we are also facing an impossible task with the world against us

We should be facing these odds with people of integrity and work ethic.

I can forgive you Steve for things you did wrong;[/quote]

Wow. You can forgive me for trying to save USA-ALL why you were trying to destroy it? You talk about the "near implosion" at USA-ALL, but you never seem to mention that you were responsible for that "near implosion".

I hope you can forgive me for genuine mistakes I made and any offense.

I don't need to bring up any genuine mistakes. Those happen, to everyone. It's the other issues that cause concern.

I hope after you publish your story you can get back to being the proactive and energetic advocate that I knew before.

This little adventure has taught me that the status quo, the old boys club, lack of integrity and laziness are much bigger problems than any external forces facing the motorized recreation community.

I won't publish them for obvious reasons

As a public charity, you're required by law to provide the public with a basic accounting of income and expenses. Stop telling people "you're sworn to secrecy".

I'm tired from fighting a lot of battles with limited support

This entire discussion is about why you see limited support. While you blame "conspiracies" and "detractors" I continue to suggest that your policies and actions are the true source of "limited support".

Why do you keep telling everyone you have "open meetings" when even here in this thread you admit that you don't? Still your advocates repeat this false assertion. The examples go on and on.

If people don't trust you, they won't donate to you.

If advocates don't trust you, they won't fundraise for you or encourage support for you.

sincerely asked for forgiveness

My opinion doesn't mean a damn thing. This is about the OHV community and how they can get the types of advocates they need and deserve. They are the ones who must provide forgiveness. Maybe they will. Maybe they will act just like USA-ALL's board and choose the easy path of status quo over the difficult path of developing a strong group of leaders, staff and volunteers to continue this fight. We'll find out.

admitted legitimate wrong doing and mistakes

Specifically, where?

If only you'd been so humble when myself and others were trying to get USA-ALL's property and move forward with an actual strategy.

The first dozen times I heard your charismatic speech about doing better and working harder, I believed. I wanted to believe. Now I know it's just a speech. It sucks. I wish you guys had defeated all the obstacles that prevent the access we desire. Nothing would make me happier. It hasn't happened, so that should be one indicator for the need for change.

If you want to change my mind, talk won't do it. Start by fulfilling the commitments you've made. Make us aware of USA-ALL's business plan and strategy that you were working on according to a post here. Kill SB22 as you committed you would in a post here. Focus at least a portion of USA-ALL's efforts on empowering users and groups as you've talked about doing.

Oh, and stop misrepresenting the positions of U4WDA and myself.

It's clear to everyone that our disparate user groups can accomplish more together than separated. If you want to ask for money, give us something worth supporting.

It'll all be spelled out for everyone to digest. I'm supplementing my original notes from the time period in question by reviewing email and phone records to provide as complete a picture as possible. I'm also keeping it as objective as possible to allow everyone to draw their own conclusions.