So, gas people....anyone thinking about ethanol?

[Houndoc]

do you have any sources for this? I have always read that the US is 5% of the world population but we consume 95% of the world's food supply (or soemthing dramatic like that). I also have NEVER heard of farmers being paid to not farm their land. You're right, thy do sell to developers because they can't make money farming, but it's not cause they aren't allowed to farm their land, it's just the fact that people pay so little for produce and such that they have a hard time breaking even.

Not saying they couldn't keep up with the demand of E85 I'm just wondering where you're getting your info from?

I think you have food production/intake confused with other resources, but even with that the 95/5 seems too extreme (although the 5% world population is about right).

One of the programs is the CRP (conservation reserve program or something like that). pays farmers to keep fields idle, both decreases food production (thus raising per unit selling prices) and creates wildlife habitat, mostly in the mid-western states.

The U.S. is a huge exporter of grain crops (wheat, corn etc), although we do import things like sugar (very little due to protective tarrifs that keep our prices artificially high), seasonal fruits and vegitables etc.

I will see what I can find link wise on Dept of Ag or something like that....be back later

 

[Houndoc]

Here is one link I could find on a quick search of the US Dept of Ag web site (http://www.usda.gov)...they also have a link to an article about economics of ethanol production from sugar. Gives some interesting production cost info on ethanol both from sugar (which is the main source in Brazil) and corn.

For exports, numbers I quickly found were 2001 (I think) at $47 billion in food exports, $51 billion total agricultural product exports for the year.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/ruralamerica/ra171/ra171h.pdf

 

[Bart]

The corn used in ethanol is not used for human consumption. It's used for animal feed and a lot of it is currently shipped overseas. I read an article that said there isn't enough farm land left in the US to raise enough crops to replace the oil we now use. In addition there are currently so many government subsidies for ethanol that if production was increased any where near that level the government couldn't continue the subsidies thus it wouldn't be cost effective.

 

[gijohn40]

The show Trucks! did a story on converting veggie oil from restaurants to diesel fuel... they had a contraption that they bought from a company that you put 55 gal of oil into one hopper and then added some chemicals (thinking one was lye) and it ended up making 75 gals of diesel... when they put it in a 2006 dodge cummins they dynoed it out and got more power and better miliage with the mixture then they did with straight diesel.... the company was selling the mixing plant (for lack of a better word) for around $3000. They showed where restaurants where giving them the old oil for free so the cost was like .06 cents per gallon of fuel... course this didn't include the cost of the mixing plant....

 

[Houndoc]

I guess only time will tell. The biggest point is that corn is not the only source that will work, most any plant material has potential, including the wasted material left from farming.

It will be interesting and of course I do not expect it to ever replace all the oil now used.

 

[78mitsu]

There is another way, it's called gassification of coal, They(USDE) are looking to put a gassification plant either in Carbon/Emery and another one in Wyoming to give it a try. Pretty well with gassificaion you can make whatever you want.

 

[BlackDog]

thread here on the acetone in response to a couple of the replys, some love it, some hated it, I had good luck with it, then I tore that motor done did a head gasket, unrelated, and put in another rig that was the same, and it hated it. weird.

 

[elkarcher]

Well I read some of the post for this question. I am in the military and an auto mechanic, we have C&G Vehicles. They run on both gas and C&g. Personally they are POS. We dont have one that is worth crap. I know it's suppose to be great for the enviroment and all that but the money it cost to repair these flex fuel vehicles is not worth the hassle. I would rather pay the money for gas and move on. The cost of the parts dont make up for the savings at the pump. Just my .02.

Tim

 

[waynehartwig]

Well I read some of the post for this question. I am in the military and an auto mechanic, we have C&G Vehicles. They run on both gas and C&g. Personally they are POS. We dont have one that is worth crap. I know it's suppose to be great for the enviroment and all that but the money it cost to repair these flex fuel vehicles is not worth the hassle. I would rather pay the money for gas and move on. The cost of the parts dont make up for the savings at the pump. Just my .02.

Tim

That's my view on it as well. However, at the current rate, we WILL run out of oil soon. So something has to be done now, or we will be heroin addicts looking for that fix, and not able to find/afford it. If soemthing happens now to find that 'new oil', then it can be in production for a while and the costs will go down. Practical now, probably not. In 10 years after it has been out, I would bet so.

 

[RockMonkey]

Well I read some of the post for this question. I am in the military and an auto mechanic, we have C&G Vehicles. They run on both gas and C&g. Personally they are POS. We dont have one that is worth crap. I know it's suppose to be great for the enviroment and all that but the money it cost to repair these flex fuel vehicles is not worth the hassle. I would rather pay the money for gas and move on. The cost of the parts dont make up for the savings at the pump. Just my .02.

Tim

You're talking about a vehicle that runs on Natural gas. That's totally different than "Flex Fuel" vehicles that run on both gas and ethanol. Ethanol does not equal Natural gas, or C&G.

 

[bryce]

ethanol can also be made from whey
a product that flows all day long out of cheese plants
only to be land applied in some desolate location or dried and stockpiled
i would be surprised if there was anyone in the us that was making a profit
from their whey stream
with whey you look at what option to dispose of it would be the cheapest
there are plants in the us that produce ethanol with whey

 

[TRAILRIDER12]

About Fuel Mileage, I Am Not Sure In The World Of Fuel Injection But In The Old Days We Used Methanol In Snowmobile Racers And We Had To Increase Main Jet Sizes By Triple + That Spells Poor Mileage To Me, Also They Ran So Cold The Pistons Would Not Expand And The Piston Skirts Would Break.