Political So now what

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No kidding! I'm also chuckling at how many people are blaming the bridge and insinuating that it should have been able to withstand the collision damage from a 1000' ship. These are the same people who would be aghast if the bridge cost 50% more than the estimate! TANSTAFL.
 

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
Well this is every tragedy now. How quickly do democrats jump in after a “mass shooting” to promote themselves and their agenda.
This isn’t contained to only one side.
The media sensationalizing stories and grandstanding absolutely happens on both sides. I think the mass shooting thing is slightly different. When there is a mass shooting, liberal media doesn't try to draw a line to a completely separate issue. It would be like CNN saying a mass shooting was caused by one of Trump's distressed mistresses that got ahold of illegally held government documents while consulting him on NYC real estate transactions.
 

J Kimmel

Registered User
The media sensationalizing stories and grandstanding absolutely happens on both sides. I think the mass shooting thing is slightly different. When there is a mass shooting, liberal media doesn't try to draw a line to a completely separate issue. It would be like CNN saying a mass shooting was caused by one of Trump's distressed mistresses that got ahold of illegally held government documents while consulting him on NYC real estate transactions.
True. The line is usually immediately drawn to white supremacy unless it’s a non conformist and then it’s immediately suppressed.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
i have no fear of immigration when it is done legally and those that are coming across our border are being vetted. My unsourced math is telling me that more than 90% of these 10 million plus illegals have not been vetted. That number should concern anybody. If the majority of these people are good people, then take 10 of them into your house with your grandchildren. The only caveat is that you don’t get to know anything about them. You don’t get to choose them or what country they came from and you can’t ask any questions of them until their immigration hearing 10 years from now.

So humanity is not supporting US border law? What other laws should we ignore in the vain of humanity? I mean a pedophile is attracted to minors instead of a consenting adult, a child abuser only has anger issues so we should let them slide on those also. It’s only a law and it is not humane to punish them for breaking those laws Or for coming into this country illegally.

I am actually starting to find humor in this clown show
I will try my best to make this my last post on immigration (haha, I always allow myself to get sucked back in).

My thoughts on illegal immigration have certainly changed a lot over the years (which, it should be noted this has been a hot button political issue for the 40ish years that I have been old enough to be politically aware with blame pointed at whatever party is in power and then ignored after the next election cycle).

It was not all that long ago that I was very much in the camp of "if they are illegal immigrants be definition they are criminals" with the corresponding hardline stance.

Some of the things that have changed my mindset have included:

1) the realization that the current immigration system has basically no options for the average person to legally immigrate to the US- meaning that my own ancestors would very likely not have been able to legally enter the US had the current system been in place.

2) increased interaction with people in different circumstances. I suspect I am one of very few here on RME that have sat down with a group of refugees (in my case refugees who fled the war and violence in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and living in a refugee settlement in Uganda) and just listened to their answers to the questions "what are your biggest challenges?"

Seeing those same people striving to make the lives of their fellow refugees better, their hard work and intelligence, is inspiring.

3) the very simple fact that I cannot identify any way that my life has been made worse by those entering the US, including those doing so illegally.

That said, my current position is not to cheer on or encourage illegal border crossings- you are right that too many are not vetted and there is no question some bad apples make it through (although as previously discussed they are arrested for violent crimes at far lower rates than are US born citizens.)

However, I also choose not to vilify those who come and cannot justify using them for political outrage as both parties have done over the years.
As I have said repeatedly in this discussion we need our politicians to actually address the great need for wholesale reform of the immigration system and stop using desperate people to score cheap political points by inciting fear and anger.
 

johngottfredson

Threat Level Midnight
Location
Alpine
I have things that make me angry 100x more than illegal immigration. A giant bloated behemoth federal government that taxes all my money and spends all my children’s money is top of the list.

Politics is BIG business for millions of political operators. It feeds itself by intentionally stoking the fire of outrage among the electorate, and is damn good at it. Every cycle the politicos search for an “election issue” to get out the vote, and yet highly intelligent and educated people fall for it like clockwork, getting sucked into the outrage, not realizing how much of it is manufactured by savvy politicians, operatives, media, and corporations for their own benefit and profit.

Folks should just relax a little more, acknowledge the government (democrat AND republican) is and has always been terrible, vote libertarian, and go sit around a fire.
 

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
What do you mean inciting fear and anger? It's an "invasion of military aged men". I know that to be true because I saw that phrase repeated over and over again on the news sites I see. We should be afraid and of course that narrative isn't meant to incite fear and anger it's just the truth and of course the imagery and quotes from immigrants aren't being curated and taken out of context to push that narrative!

Media spins spins spins like a sharknado.
 

Hickey

Burn-barrel enthusiast
Supporting Member
I just can't believe how attention starved those people are that are willing to try to direct some of the spotlight to themselves by creating such sensationalized takes, and how irresponsible that is knowing full well many stupid people are out there that would take that as face value.

How long before Trump chimes in and blames the Italian controlled Jewish engineered and Israeli funded space lasers were to blame?
You forgot sharks. The lasers are mounted on sharks.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
I will try my best to make this my last post on immigration (haha, I always allow myself to get sucked back in).

My thoughts on illegal immigration have certainly changed a lot over the years (which, it should be noted this has been a hot button political issue for the 40ish years that I have been old enough to be politically aware with blame pointed at whatever party is in power and then ignored after the next election cycle).

It was not all that long ago that I was very much in the camp of "if they are illegal immigrants be definition they are criminals" with the corresponding hardline stance.

Some of the things that have changed my mindset have included:

1) the realization that the current immigration system has basically no options for the average person to legally immigrate to the US- meaning that my own ancestors would very likely not have been able to legally enter the US had the current system been in place.

2) increased interaction with people in different circumstances. I suspect I am one of very few here on RME that have sat down with a group of refugees (in my case refugees who fled the war and violence in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and living in a refugee settlement in Uganda) and just listened to their answers to the questions "what are your biggest challenges?"

Seeing those same people striving to make the lives of their fellow refugees better, their hard work and intelligence, is inspiring.

3) the very simple fact that I cannot identify any way that my life has been made worse by those entering the US, including those doing so illegally.

That said, my current position is not to cheer on or encourage illegal border crossings- you are right that too many are not vetted and there is no question some bad apples make it through (although as previously discussed they are arrested for violent crimes at far lower rates than are US born citizens.)

However, I also choose not to vilify those who come and cannot justify using them for political outrage as both parties have done over the years.
As I have said repeatedly in this discussion we need our politicians to actually address the great need for wholesale reform of the immigration system and stop using desperate people to score cheap political points by inciting fear and anger.
I respect your reasons for your perspective. Every side of this is political. At the root of my issue and many other people is the fact that these people are walking in without being vetted and most do not have any legitimate claim for asylum. Many are coming for opportunities, many are coming because of the hand outs and you have to believe that some are coming for reasons that are not in our best interest.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
I respect your reasons for your perspective. Every side of this is political. At the root of my issue and many other people is the fact that these people are walking in without being vetted and most do not have any legitimate claim for asylum. Many are coming for opportunities, many are coming because of the hand outs and you have to believe that some are coming for reasons that are not in our best interest.
There are plenty of people out there who are not vetted and may not have my best interests in mind, yet life is good and it doesn't worry me.
 

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
There are many rapists out there but I have never been raped. Enforcing that law doesn't really affect me so all is good.
Quite a stretch comparison. Someone being here illegally is the law being broken. technically that in itself has no affect on another soul in any way. While Rape....wmyeha, no need to go there.

We all know that they can do more things while being here illegally that will affect some people but that is secondary and in some cases (albeit probably very rare) don't anything in any form that affects anyone in the US in any negative way.
 

glockman

I hate Jeep trucks
Location
Pleasant Grove
Quite a stretch comparison. Someone being here illegally is the law being broken. technically that in itself has no affect on another soul in any way. While Rape....wmyeha, no need to go there.

We all know that they can do more things while being here illegally that will affect some people but that is secondary and in some cases (albeit probably very rare) don't anything in any form that affects anyone in the US in any negative way.
It's philosophically the same, saying if I'm not affected by this action from others, why worry about it.
The cost of housing in Utah right now has made it hard for many to buy a house. That is a direct result of supply and demand. That demand is being driving in large part from transplants from other states. The top two being California and Texas. Those states are being very negatively impacted by illegal immigration so I'd argue that houndoc is being affected, his family and friends are being affected but he is choosing to stick his head in the sand.
 

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
It's philosophically the same, saying if I'm not affected by this action from others, why worry about it.
The cost of housing in Utah right now has made it hard for many to buy a house. That is a direct result of supply and demand. That demand is being driving in large part from transplants from other states. The top two being California and Texas. Those states are being very negatively impacted by illegal immigration so I'd argue that houndoc is being affected, his family and friends are being affected but he is choosing to stick his head in the sand.
You are trying to trace an affect back to a single cause.....which doesn't work. The point I am making is comparing a crime that is 100% perpetrated against another person to one that(the actual crime) in realty has no direct impact on another is a far stretch. Someone being here illegally has no affect on anyone else.

I am not for or against, just pointing out that the comparison is stretching foe maximum emotional affect.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
You are trying to trace an affect back to a single cause.....which doesn't work. The point I am making is comparing a crime that is 100% perpetrated against another person to one that(the actual crime) in realty has no direct impact on another is a far stretch. Someone being here illegally has no affect on anyone else.

I am not for or against, just pointing out that the comparison is stretching foe maximum emotional affect.
So our government is printing money like crazy and giving it it to NGO's to support all these illegal aliens. The federal deficit is over 34 billion dollars and growing exponenetially. Even if half these people were working and paying taxes, it would not put a dent in the amount of money they are printing to support people invading our country since as long as they are handing out free money, there is going to be a flow of people coming for the handout. As long as the .gov is printing this money and handing it out, inflation is going to stay high. The money being given to NGO's to support this is PPP on steroids for its impact on inflation.

I think that is a pretty sizeable direct cause that affects everyone.
 

02SE

Well-Known Member
Location
Millcreek, UT
I can think of the illegal alien who was driving recklessly, lost control, went up on the sidewalk and hit and killed an SLCPD officer who was a friend of my best friend on the SLCPD. Big surprise, he then fled back to Mexico, and AFAIK has yet to be held accountable...

I know someone else who was hit and killed by an illegal alien, driving under the influence.

Should we mention the illegal aliens who have killed others? The young woman in San Francisco who was shot and killed in front of her father, while minding their own business. The illegal alien had been deported numerous times previously. He shot her with a gun stolen from a police car.

How about the illegal alien who killed Laken Riley.

The stolen ID's, and other crimes committed.

I know there are illegal aliens receiving medicaid, while some Citizens are denied..

Hospitals who have to care for illegal aliens until they are stable enough to release. Those costs get passed on to everyone else.

If you don't think illegal aliens are effecting you, and your family, it's because you are in denial.
 
I think an immigration factor that most fail to take into account is that the health of our country economically is based on contributing workers. Plain and simple, the greatest asset of any business or country is its people. That goes double for individuals like immigrants who are willing to work hard for lower pay. The US has proven to be a place where people can get ahead based on their intelligence and ability to work.

I'm all for vetting, and don't discount the importance of not letting criminals in, but due to population control, our economy is in for a Great Depression in the next 10-15 years simply from a demographic standpoint. While Utah and Idaho are the least likely to be impacted by this depression, it would be pretty much unlikely to turn around at this point, even if we changed the immigration situation and brought in 10 times as many immigrants per year.

I don't have much hope that politicians will increase the level of legal immigration, but that would be best for our country and us as citizens. It would also be the best thing to reduce illegal immigration, which I think everyone would agree is the higher risk.
 
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