Starting a business

glockman

I hate Jeep trucks
Location
Pleasant Grove
I know many of you are self employed. I'm thinking of starting a small side business building some items I think I can turn a profit on. Mainly something to help me pay for some tools, avoid some tax liability and keep me busy making money instead of spending it. I thought I'd solicit the wisdom of RME.

Sole proprietor or LLC?

On the paperwork side, Did you pay an attorney, use legal zoom or do it yourself.

What should I know as a newb starting out?
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
Definitely LLC for legal protections. Also as a sole proprietor everything flows through you when doing taxes. As an LLC it goes through the company then a K1 is what is reported out to you for your taxes.
 

ID Bronco

Registered User
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
Do the LLC yourself on the Utah site. I did one in about 30 minutes in Idaho a few months back. Learn about deductions. Get an accountant that get's so close to the line that he cuts his toe nails first and then doesn't cross it.
 

Gravy

Ant Anstead of Dirtbikes
Supporting Member
I'm stoked you're thinking about it. I love business! Remember our talk up at the lake?
LLC for all the reasons above.
Make sure what you want to create can be registered for home occupation unless you have a sperate space.
Do it yourself Utah.gov website - it's cake I can do one in 45 minutes on my phone.
Create a separate business bank account, CC, etc. Then you can build a business Dun and Bradstreet credit score.
 

jeeper

I live my life 1 dumpster at a time
Location
So Jo, Ut
I ran as a DBA for 15 years or so. It’s less paper work, and unless you are making good money, the DBA is fine. For tax time the llc is more difficult and requires a separate paper trail. The DBA is just personal taxes at tax time.
the LLC is supposed to be more helpful in protecting your personal assets, but it’s really not in the real world. Unless you set up a separate bank account and use it solely for the purpose of your business, and give yourself legit paychecks as an employee for that business, it’s basically still you. Any lawsuit or issue you have, it’s very easy to ‘pierce the corporate veil’ and prove you and the LLC are the same person, rendering the LLC protection void. Or at least so says the last lawsuit I went through.
I think my additional cost to prep taxes went up about $750year from the LLC over the DBA. But if you self prepare, that’s not an issue.
This is my experience… But I’m pretty low on the intelligence level when it comes to business stuff.
 

zmotorsports

Hardcore Gearhead
Vendor
Location
West Haven, UT
When I got my business license in 1997 I set it up as a sole proprietorship. Mainly because I was young and naive. I thought people were honest and their word was their bond and as long as I did everything honestly I would have no reason to be suspicious of people.

I closed my business in 1997 after moving but if I were to do it again I would go the LLC route to keep my assets somewhat protected. I didn't have many issues but there were a couple people that gave me pause for concern.

Good luck in your new venture.

Mike
 

zmotorsports

Hardcore Gearhead
Vendor
Location
West Haven, UT
Also, you may be required to have a license from the city as well. Especially if you plan on having people come and go from your residence.

That actually was harder to get than the state license. I had to apply for a conditional use permit with the city in which I lived in. From there I had to go to a city planning meeting and present my objectives. They asked things like parking and hours. I replied that I would only be operating by appointment only and not have vehicles parked outside but I still had to get my neighbors that I shared a properly line with to sign off on it. I went out two neighbors on each side as well as across the street to show I was putting my best foot forward but looking back I don't think I'd do any more than necessary now.

I was also restricted by the city that I couldn't have signs in front of the house nor parking on the street as well as comply with noise ordinances, all of which I would have anyways but they still imposed some restrictions.

Much later it became a joke with West Point because I had neighbors that had a dozen plus vehicles in their yards and the city would do nothing yet because I had a business license I was held to a higher standard.

As you can tell, I'm over it and not bitter at all.....:rolleyes:
 

glockman

I hate Jeep trucks
Location
Pleasant Grove
All good info, keep it coming. I setup a small drop ship business that served its purpose for a couple years but always had the feeling I'd missed some big regulation and was going to get my door kicked down by the state tax commission.

I planned on opening a business account at my credit union and moving all the transactions through that for easy tracking.
I'll only be shipping to avoid the customers at my house aspect and dealing with that and Pleasant Grove, who have always been fantastic to deal with🤣
 

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
As was said, an LLC is only going to protect you if you treat the business assets and money separately from your own..which isn't that hard. Also, the LLC Is only part of it, you also have to decide how you want it be taxed. Likely individually from the sound of it. Get a business account, run expenses through it, pay yourself if there are profits....or not. Whether or not you pay yourself that income is going to hit you at years end, but if you're busy enough, taking a paycheck for your work is nice.

There will come a threshold where the tax savings will be worth electing as an S-corp. You save about 14% on payroll taxes if you pay yourself as "distributions" instead of salary. You still need to pay yourself a reasonable wage for what you do, but you can fudge that to the low side and pay the rest as a distribution to save on taxes. Honestly, there are a lot of ways to minimize taxable income. We set up a separate business to allocate the maximum amount of non taxable "income" to my partner's children (that are old enough to qualify) so that we can avoid any taxes on that portion. Little things like that.

Remember, it's all foreign to everyone the first time you go through it, and then only slightly less foreign each subsequent time. Ask lots of questions, find mentors or at least someone you can trust to ask questions. But always remember what works for someone else may not work for you. If you're not sure, a good small business accountant can really explain to you the pros and cons of different organizational structures and help you take advantage of as many of the breaks that everyone get's mad at big businesses for taking advantage of. Of course you should minimize your tax burden and so should they. If you need a recommendation on a good accountant or book keeper, let me know.

DBA's are cheap and easy to register to any entity, so if you decide you want to do something else or change the name, it's not that big of a deal.

Cody
 
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johngottfredson

Threat Level Midnight
Location
Alpine
Listen to the guys telling you that LLC's are only good if you run the business as a business, not as a self employed dude in his garage. I see nothing wrong with starting as a sole proprietor while you figure out the business, and converting to an LLC when it makes sense (ie measurable, repeatable income, demonstrated viability and growth, etc). No need to get bogged down in the early stages when you need to be quick and hustlin'.
 
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Noahfecks

El Destructo!
A sole member LLC shouldn't have to file a separate tax return, it should flow over to your personal tax returns on schedule C.

Yes, keep a separate bank account and maintain a firewall in your finances, not just for the safe keeping of your personal assets, but also to tell if you are making or loosing money.

Don't borrow money to start a business, prove the concept first and scale after you have a proven model and marketable product. Bankers are blood sucking leaches.
 
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