SUWA: Oil development ok, just keep out the OHV's

Don B

formerly rebarguy
Location
Southern Utah
I think the story goes a long way in showing the need for Take Back Utah and why we must combine everyone that has a stake in public lands in order to fight the common enemy.

My question is why have we allowed the situation to deteriorate to the point where SUWA is able to dictate the use of public lands and don't even need to consult with the public that supposedly owns the lands, or the agencies that are supposed to be managing the lands.

This really is a smart tactic on SUWA's part. get the different user groups working against each other and it makes it much easier for SUWA to carry out their agenda.

Unless we start looking past our own little focus and looking at the big picture, SUWA will continue to gain control over public lands by using the federal courts as a weapon of intimidation.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
I don't know how much I can go into here, because I don't know how many details have been made public. I can tell you that the County has been blind sided by BBC on this and BBC is trying to force their hand.

What I can tell you is that I have looked at the project map from BBC and the location of the gate that they want put up just so happens to be on the boundry of the Red Rock Wilderness. SUWA is trying to make the case for the road to be "abandoned" so it is easier to have a wilderness designation. This road across Horse Bench was built by my great grandfather who operated fields for his cattle operation at the confluence of Nine Mile Creek and the Green River. It was later improved and Carbon County has a written claim on the road.

I don't know what the final wording the in the agreement is, but I know Carbon County is not going to let this road go without a fight. I have been told by 2 of the 3 County Comissioners that if a gate is put up, it will be put up and controlled by the county and they will continue to show use on it by doing noxious weed spraying, educational trips among other things.

I have also personally asked to have heritage access written into it, so that I could once a year take my kids and a small group of people down to the Green River. This could also show usage. I don't know it they will do that, but if they do, great.
 
My question is why have we allowed the situation to deteriorate to the point where SUWA is able to dictate the use of public lands and don't even need to consult with the public that supposedly owns the lands, or the agencies that are supposed to be managing the lands.

An excellent question worth discussing so that if we are fortunate enough to change this paradigm that we do not end up back in the exact same place sometime in the future.

This really is a smart tactic on SUWA's part. get the different user groups working against each other and it makes it much easier for SUWA to carry out their agenda.

Unless we start looking past our own little focus and looking at the big picture, SUWA will continue to gain control over public lands by using the federal courts as a weapon of intimidation.

Are you in support of the strategy where OHV and OIL temporarily join forces?
 
I don't know how much I can go into here, because I don't know how many details have been made public.

Aren't you part of the public? What's the scoop?

I have also personally asked to have heritage access written into it, so that I could once a year take my kids and a small group of people down to the Green River.

Is this what kind of access we're shooting for?

Are you in support of the strategy where OHV and OIL temporarily join forces?

No comments?
 

jackjoh

Jack - KC6NAR
Supporting Member
Location
Riverton, UT
Thanks Steve. This site has needed a shot in the arm to get some activity going out there not just writing words but taking action. I want to thank Paul and Don also as they have both been active and reliable information sources. Are you back in the area? If so lets get together sometime. Yes, the strategy SUWA is using is effective and first used by the Romans to conquer their enimies. We need to recognize that they will stop at nothing which does not mean we like it, just recognize it as a strategy. The big question now is what are we going to do about it? Nothing??
 
Hey Jack. I'm probably heading back to Dallas on Monday or Tuesday, but I'll be back in town more often this year and next.

The big question now is what are we going to do about it? Nothing??

Apparently. Doing the same thing for the last 30 years has netted zero, so it must be a good strategy to continue. :confused:

Wish I wasn't just talking to myself here. I'd like to see some people defend some of the positions they're taking instead of just refusing to talk to "pot stirrers" and keeping their blinders on. :-\
 
Just saw this SUWA press release touting their relationship with Bill Barrett.

I once again ask the local USA-ALL and TBU representatives, is it a wise partnership to align with the extractive industry while the extractive industry continues to show that it's only concern is their own interests?

Please don't say you can't comment. That's the classic line to avoid any accountability.

http://www.suwa.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8066&news_iv_ctrl=1162

SUWA said:
Conservation Groups and Oil and Gas Company Negotiate Compromise to Protect Wild Desolation Canyon and Permit Natural Gas Development


SALT LAKE CITY (July 29, 2010): Today, a coalition of conservation organizations announced they have reached an historic agreement with the Bill Barrett Corporation, a Denver-based oil and gas company.

The West Tavaputs agreement ensures that the Desolation Canyon stretch of the Green River will be protected from the sight and sound of industrial development even during the development and extraction of substantial natural gas reserves that Barrett currently has under lease.

The agreement cleared the way for the Bureau of Land Management to approve on Friday, July 30th, the ‘West Tavaputs Full Field Natural Gas Development Project’ record of decision. The agreement and record of decision are also supported by the state of Utah, the Utah School and Institutional Trust Lands Administration, and Carbon County.

The Desolation Canyon portion of the Green River, one of the West’s most iconic and remote stretches of river, was designated a National Historic Landmark in 1969. Because of that designation, the BLM is required to manage the canyon to retain its remote and natural setting.

“The Desolation Canyon proposed wilderness area in Utah is one of the most remarkable, remote landscapes in the lower 48 states,” said Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance Attorney and Energy Program Director Stephen Bloch. “By working with the Bill Barrett Corporation, we have been able to protect and enhance this crown jewel of the public lands while allowing the company to achieves its goal of developing the natural gas resource. This also serves as a powerful example of the progress that is resulting from the constructive ongoing discussions between advocates for Utah wilderness and county commissioners, land managers, and energy companies.”This agreement shows that there is room for both oil and gas development and wilderness protection, just as Ken Salazar said when he took the reins at the Interior Department last year, ,” said Senior Counsel and BLM Action Center Director for the Wilderness Society, Nada Culver. “We see this agreement between the conservation community and the Bill Barrett Corporation as a good model as we move forward with the new approach to managing oil and gas as just one of the many uses of our public lands.”

The agreement between the conservation community and BBC resulted in a dramatically reduced surface footprint, particularly in the Desolation Canyon and Jack Canyon proposed wilderness areas, while permitting BBC to recover the considerable natural gas resource in the area. As originally conceived and planned during the Bush administration, the West Tavaputs project included over 225 surface locations in proposed wilderness areas. Under this agreement and BBC’s contracted surface development plans, fewer than six locations would be developed. In addition, the placement of gates on several remote dirt roads will ensure that fragile cultural sites, wildlife, and wilderness values are protected.

“We are pleased to support this decision and believe that it reflects a careful, thoughtful and collaborative approach to balancing resource protection and development,” said Southwest Region Director for the National Parks Conservation Association. “It further reflects a process that has engaged all stakeholders in finding a solution we can all be proud of.”

In January 2010, historic preservation and conservation organizations, the BLM, the Bill Barrett Corporation, and state and county officials signed a so-called Programmatic Agreement that set forth a framework for ensuring that natural gas development in this area, including truck traffic in the famed Nine Mile Canyon, is done in a way that protects the area’s significant cultural resources. According to the BLM’s website, the Nine Mile Canyon region contains the “the greatest concentration of rock art sites in the U.S.A.” (See http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/price/recreation/9mile/9mile_col2.html.) More than 1,000 of these sites have been identified, along with centuries-old standing structures such as cliff dwellings and pit houses.
 
I did not see anything there that stopped other traffic in the area. Is this a smokescreeen?

There's no specific mention of limited OHV use in this particular announcement. I posted it in this thread as it seemed related to SUWA and BBC making secret backroom dealings while excluding their "partners" in access protection.
 
So this is the same situation. BBC has been a long time donor of USA-ALL (and now TBU). Does this "agreement" alarm anyone or dispell the belief that the extractive industry is our access ally?
 
How do we find out? I will start calling people but in a case like this I usually just get the run-around.

Looks like USA-ALL/TBU aren't commenting on the OIL-OHV alliance so I doubt anything will come from direct inquiries. That's unfortunate because it's an alliance that should be discussed openly.

When it was first suggested several years ago, I certainly made my thoughts known to the "leaders" of the community. My analysis at the time is proving to have been accurate. The enemy of our enemy is our friend until they find themselves a better deal, or worse, until we defeat our enemy and then our former ally can easily wipe us out.

The big "benefit" touted from the '08 capitol rally was that OHV "leaders" got the attention and support from extractive industry lobbyists and representatives. At the now infamous February '09 U4WDA board meeting, even Chad Booth (AYL) openly admitted that the OHV cause was being used as a pawn by the extractive industry to further their own agenda. He too correctly surmised that this was an ill-advised alliance to pursue. Despite this, he still insisted that the newly formed TBU needed the support of the OHV community despite the extractive industry resources being used to create it.

So I'm still asking what USA-ALL/TBU representatives think about the continued alliance between OHV and OIL in light of these latest revelations.
 

jackjoh

Jack - KC6NAR
Supporting Member
Location
Riverton, UT
Recently I saw pictures on RME of a guy on a motorcycle that took a trip around 9 mile canyon and he had pictures of gates closing the road. I would like to see what the sign on the gate said.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
Recently I saw pictures on RME of a guy on a motorcycle that took a trip around 9 mile canyon and he had pictures of gates closing the road. I would like to see what the sign on the gate said.


The pictures you are thinking of are Gregs trip report. The area he was in was above Nine Mile Canyon up Cottonwood Canyon. That area is all private property and not an area that has been gated off to public access.

878191766_J6dRK-M.jpg



I came across a handful of locked gates and got turned back each time. I was getting increasingly frustrated with each gate, because I would travel many miles to find one after another. The scenery was amazing, I was very close to a overlook of the Green River, with a gate blocking the way. After riding up a few other canyons and many miles of side-roads, I began to feel a bit confused about my location. It's not to say that I was lost... just temporarily without orientation. ;) It was getting late in the day and I was tired, so I found my way back down Cottonwood Canyon and continued towards Wellington, UT.



The sign says "Private Property Preston Nutter Ranch". Preston Nutter was my great grand father and was responsible for building some of the original roads out of the bottom of Nine Mile Canyon on to the upper parts of the plateau.
 
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anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
While BBC negotiated this deal behind the back of the state and county, it is not BBC who is closing the roads. Neither SUWA or BBC have the authority to close a road. It is the BLM who has designated where gates are going to be put in their ROD. From talking to our county commissioner, the county will be the party installing the gates, therefore making Carbon County the owners of the gates.

You can find the EIS and ROD here:

http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/price/energy/Oil_Gas.html
 

jackjoh

Jack - KC6NAR
Supporting Member
Location
Riverton, UT
Page 2 of Document 1 says "6 miles of road closure" and "In order to facilitate reclamation and minimizing impacts to visual character and to minimize operational interference BBC is requesting gating of certain roads into sensitive lands."
I have not located where these gates will be located or how much road they will close but will keep trying. Also could not define "sensitive lands".
Also could not use as an attachement because it comes out all garbled when pasted.
 
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