The Italian Jeep

flexyfool

GDW
Location
Boise, Idaho
Fiat will buy the UAW's stake in Chrysler, and Chrysler will become a wholy owned subsidiary of Fiat. Interestingly, Fiat is using the profits from Jeep sport-utes and Dodge trucks to prop up its failing European business units. All this courtesy of Obama's $12B bailout and his ripping up of hundreds of years of American bankruptcy laws.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/01/news/companies/fiat-chrysler/
http://www.openmarket.org/2014/01/01/the-great-italian-auto-bailout-courtesy-of-u-s-taxpayers/
 
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JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
Yeah, FIAT has been a running Jeep for a couple of years now. The news here is they're buying the UAW's shares that were handed to them by government fiat (like land management, but I digress).



Kooler than Mudd.
 

thenag

Registered User
Location
Kearns
All this courtesy of Obama's $12B bailout ]

Actually both bailout's were started under George W. Bush, both candidates McCain and and Obama helped shape them and agreed that if elected they would see them through. (although some details would have been different under McCain, it would have been largely the same)

So unless (like me) you voted for Bob Barr in 2008 you voted for the bailout (it is easy to look up who voted for it as far as senators and representatives as well, but in this state that usually doesn't mater, for example a guy that is mostly funded by the pay-day lending industry and has a history of shady dealings beats a more qualified person for State Attorney General and is finally forced to resign) I think people need to look more closely at voting records (www.ontheissues.org) of every candidate and vote with their heart instead of listening to the rhetoric.

Many well respected economist can make arguments on both sides of if any of the stimulus worked or not. (it would take my two seconds to google up respected links on each side of the bailout.)

Only other bailout thing to add is if Chrysler went away Dana/Spicer and tons of other related companies would have been devastated. I personally like Dana/Spicer.

Anyway it is interesting the way of Chrysler, I personally have never liked any of the Chrysler products, Our Fiesta was in for service and the loaner was a 2012 Avenger, and it felt like a dated 90's POS sedan, again my opinion.

I only marginally like our jeep, It has a ton of aftermarket support and well documented modifications. It is a great platform to build up.

Sorry for the soapbox, just trying to keep history straight, and think about things related to 4x4 (dana/spicer)

Nathan
 

flexyfool

GDW
Location
Boise, Idaho
Actually both bailout's were started under George W. Bush, both candidates McCain and and Obama helped shape them and agreed that if elected they would see them through. (although some details would have been different under McCain, it would have been largely the same) So unless (like me) you voted for Bob Barr in 2008 you voted for the bailoutNathan

Sorry, but I find this statement incredulous. Got proof? As I remember it, Bush refused to bailout the auto companies. He gave GM a short-term loan to hold it over until after the election saying it was up to his successor to decide. One of his very few good decisions. Maybe McCain would have bailed them out. Maybe not. He certainly would not have handed the companies over to the UAW and Fiat.

Also, bankruptcy does not necessarily mean a company and its suppliers disappear. We're not talking about a small company. Hostess went bankrupt, and we still have twinkies. If Chrysler went bankrupt, we would still have Jeep.
 

XJEEPER

Well-Known Member
Location
Highland Springs
The federal government shouldnt have gotten involved financially, propping up corporations with our tax dollars.

There are hours of reading on the subject of the profitability of automobiles, their design, and government (EPA, CAFE, NTSB, etc) regulation.

I only see more Fiat in Jeep in the future and due to regulations, goodbye to the solid axle and to the selectable tcase.
 
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thenag

Registered User
Location
Kearns
Sorry, but I find this statement incredulous. Got proof? As I remember it, Bush refused to bailout the auto companies. He gave GM a short-term loan to hold it over until after the election saying it was up to his successor to decide. One of his very few good decisions. Maybe McCain would have bailed them out. Maybe not. He certainly would not have handed the companies over to the UAW and Fiat.

Also, bankruptcy does not necessarily mean a company and its suppliers disappear. We're not talking about a small company. Hostess went bankrupt, and we still have twinkies. If Chrysler went bankrupt, we would still have Jeep.

Bush gave a short term loan... against congressional approval. But look at his record, he assigned money to the auto industry when he didn't have to, he was not up for re-election, the presidential election was over, he had no personal consequences of doing nothing. (It was after the 2008 election) So yes technically the "Auto Bailout" was signed into law by Obama, but it was in the works under Bush to the point where as a "lame duck" with nothing to gain/lose, he gave them money.

David Freddoso wrote
"When President Bush threw GM and Chrysler their first lifelines (with President-elect Obama’s assent), he did so without congressional approval. After Congress voted specifically to prevent an auto bailout, Bush turned to the overly broad and hastily written TARP statute, which Congress had passed under extreme duress and threats from Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson that their failure to act would cause financial Armageddon."

Here is a CNN article from the time
http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/19/news/companies/auto_crisis/


Some people forget this picture, this was from the TARP negotiations that were going on the whole fall of 2008.
8577.jpg

As with most things it is far more complicated than what it appears on the surface. To call the auto bailout "Obama's" is like saying "Alan Mulally's Raptor" He is the guy in charge but it would have happened in some form or another if there was someone else in charge.

Here is a CNN article from the time
http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/19/news/companies/auto_crisis/

It is just logical to think about the impact into the suppliers when a company is hurting, look at how much Home Depot struggled when the housing market fell apart. I am sure that Hostess's suppliers felt some pain when they went bankrupt.

The bailout's happened, the ground work started in 08, Obama was sworn in 2009.

Can we get back to talking about an Italian Jeep?

Nathan
 
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iamsparticus

Take your Rig to the Edge
Location
Ogden,Ut
guys guys this is what people call a pissing match it will only end in tears! who's ever fault this is, im sure the general public will never know the dirty details, bailing out a company with tax dollars is wrong on many levels
 

flexyfool

GDW
Location
Boise, Idaho
I will certainly agree that Bush the Younger kicked open the bailout door with TARP, but it was Obama the Magnificent (may peace be upon him), who later provided the majority of the auto bailout money and broke the bankruptcy laws.
 
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