ughh I am going to family party all weekend or I would be there.
The Snowshoeing Thread
- Thread starter sixstringsteve
- Start date
ughh I am going to family party all weekend or I would be there.
jentzschman
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Sandy, Utah
I completely forget that I was helping my brother move... So I am out ;(
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sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
No problem
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Fender, and I headed up AF Canyon to do some snowshoeing today. My goal was to hike from the Pine Hollow trailhead to the summit (via the singletrack) and to return via the road.
We started out at Pine hollow around 1:30 PM. I planned on eating lunch on the trail and it was my motivation to keep going further without a break. We passed a father with 3 kids snowshoeing, a couple road bikers, and one other guy with his dog. Apart from that, we had the place to ourselves.
I started out with the yak trax and didn't put my snowshoes on for a good mile or so. I realized that even though I had traction, I needed a bigger footprint to distribute my weight better. It felt like I was walking in a dry riverbed. So I put the snowshoes on for the rest of the trip and I made much quicker time. I was starting to overhead, so I shed my midlayer and just wore my merino wool long sleeve top baselayer. I stayed plenty warm in just that.
After 1.5 miles, we arrived at the first meadow above pine hollow trailhead.
If I remember correctly, going to the right connects to salamander flats and eventually connects to the road. We went left, to connect with trail 157 .5 miles later. Trail 157 is part of the Great Western Trail (aka the Ridge Trail).
Sure enough, we came to the second meadow where it connects to trail 157. Going to the right takes you to the summit, and going to the left takes you towards Pole Line Pass (probably still a good 9 miles away).
Across the meadow is this interesting looking structure. I remembered it from a mountain biking trip up there a few months ago.
I decided this would be a good place to stop and have lunch. I know that alcohol stoves don't do too well in the cold temps, but it was pretty warm, and i insulate it from whatever its resting on.
The soup was stale and nasty, but it was warm. I didn't feel like it gave me much energy, so I wolfed down a frozen cliff bar before leaving the tipi.
I think this would be a really cool area to camp at night, provided you get above the meadow a bit.
We started out at Pine hollow around 1:30 PM. I planned on eating lunch on the trail and it was my motivation to keep going further without a break. We passed a father with 3 kids snowshoeing, a couple road bikers, and one other guy with his dog. Apart from that, we had the place to ourselves.
I started out with the yak trax and didn't put my snowshoes on for a good mile or so. I realized that even though I had traction, I needed a bigger footprint to distribute my weight better. It felt like I was walking in a dry riverbed. So I put the snowshoes on for the rest of the trip and I made much quicker time. I was starting to overhead, so I shed my midlayer and just wore my merino wool long sleeve top baselayer. I stayed plenty warm in just that.
After 1.5 miles, we arrived at the first meadow above pine hollow trailhead.
If I remember correctly, going to the right connects to salamander flats and eventually connects to the road. We went left, to connect with trail 157 .5 miles later. Trail 157 is part of the Great Western Trail (aka the Ridge Trail).
Sure enough, we came to the second meadow where it connects to trail 157. Going to the right takes you to the summit, and going to the left takes you towards Pole Line Pass (probably still a good 9 miles away).
Across the meadow is this interesting looking structure. I remembered it from a mountain biking trip up there a few months ago.
I decided this would be a good place to stop and have lunch. I know that alcohol stoves don't do too well in the cold temps, but it was pretty warm, and i insulate it from whatever its resting on.
The soup was stale and nasty, but it was warm. I didn't feel like it gave me much energy, so I wolfed down a frozen cliff bar before leaving the tipi.
I think this would be a really cool area to camp at night, provided you get above the meadow a bit.
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sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
From there we got on trail 157 and headed towards the summit. It got colder as we climbed, and I threw my midlayer back on (thanks for the tip on the Millet Davy, I'm loving it). As we were climbed in elevation, the fog lifted and we were rewarded with some great views of the mountains around us.
Looking towards the summit, still about .5 mi to go.
We finally made it to the summit trailhead. I figure we had gone about 3 miles to this point.
Looking towards the summit, still about .5 mi to go.
We finally made it to the summit trailhead. I figure we had gone about 3 miles to this point.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
From there we headed down the road. The road was actually over 4 miles, which surprised me. I figured it'd be a straight shot, but it turned out that the trails were much straigher.
The road only had about 3-4" of snow on it, so every now and then my snowshoes would strike the pavement below. We saw 3 snowmobiles, then nobody else 'till we got back to the truck 2 hours later.
All of a sudden, the clouds parted and the tip of Box Elder Peak poked through. It's too bad there wasn't anyone around with a great camera who knew what they were doing with it. This scene lasted about 10 seconds before the clouds covered it again. It was pretty awesome to see.
Next time I do this loop, I'll take trail 159 down. It connects the summit parking lot to salamander flatt, which later connects to timpanookie parking lot. That's a cool trail for next time.
From there, we made our way down to the car right as it was getting dark. My hot cocoa was still warm in my hydro flask (another great recommendation from Davy), and it was a nice treat to come back to. When I checked my GPS, it said we did 7.3 miles in about 4 hours, and we climbed 1600 feet. Probably slow for most people, but that's the most I've snowshoed in one day, and my legs are going to be feelign it tomorrow. I'm glad my stove worked out so well, and I think I'm ready to do a snowshoeing overnighter up there. I can't wait to get back.
The road only had about 3-4" of snow on it, so every now and then my snowshoes would strike the pavement below. We saw 3 snowmobiles, then nobody else 'till we got back to the truck 2 hours later.
All of a sudden, the clouds parted and the tip of Box Elder Peak poked through. It's too bad there wasn't anyone around with a great camera who knew what they were doing with it. This scene lasted about 10 seconds before the clouds covered it again. It was pretty awesome to see.
Next time I do this loop, I'll take trail 159 down. It connects the summit parking lot to salamander flatt, which later connects to timpanookie parking lot. That's a cool trail for next time.
From there, we made our way down to the car right as it was getting dark. My hot cocoa was still warm in my hydro flask (another great recommendation from Davy), and it was a nice treat to come back to. When I checked my GPS, it said we did 7.3 miles in about 4 hours, and we climbed 1600 feet. Probably slow for most people, but that's the most I've snowshoed in one day, and my legs are going to be feelign it tomorrow. I'm glad my stove worked out so well, and I think I'm ready to do a snowshoeing overnighter up there. I can't wait to get back.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Hi Troy. I can't wait 'till you can join us on these.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Sure, I'd be happy to. I've been trying out different clothing each trip, and I think I've got it down to a system for what works for me. Pretty much all my gear is what Davy recommends. I'll try to mention what's a nice to have, and what's a necessity for me. You could spend thousands on snow gear, or you can go economical and still be every bit as comfortable. I get a bit carried away with gear, but don't think you need to spend hundreds on clothing.
Necessity: Merino Wool Long underwear. I like the medium weight. Here's what I've got:
Necessity (for me): light weight minus 33 (that's the brand) merino wool top. I'd prefer a medium weight, but most of those have zippers and I don't want a zipper on my base layer. This is my most important piece of gear. It never stinks, and it regulates my heat extremely well. I was hiking in just this shirt today for about 45 min and as long as I was moving I didn't get cold. Once I stopped moving, I put a jacket on immediately.
medium weight minus 33 merino wool long johns. These are my base layer on the bottom. I love these things. They're also a necessity for me, because I get cold. A lot of guys just use running tights or biker pants instead, but I need a bit more warmth.
Nice to have: I wear some old volcom snowboard pants over my merino wool long john bottoms. The pants are bulky and heavy, but they have 2' zippers on the inside of each leg, so I can really regulate my temp well with them. Plus they have built-in gaters which keep my socks dry. These pants used to be super waterproof, but the coating is wearing off, but it doesn't bother me. The only part of me that touches snow/water is from my shin down to my ankles, so waterproofing isn't very necessary.
Waterproof boots. Your boots usually have snow on them the entire day, even in a snowshoe. I use low-top hiking boots cuz that's what I like. Mine are waterproof, which means they don't let water in (and they don't really let sweat out very well either). The gaiters on the pants keep my socks dry.
I've been hiking with hiking socks lately, but this time I tried some icebreaker hike+lite mini socks (merino wool). I loved these socks so much that I ordered a second pair as soon as I got home. My socks were wet (from sweat) when I was done, but my feet were toasty warm, and the merino wool wicks the sweat away from your skin. So even though my socks were damp, my skin was totally dry. Crazy. Any merino wool socks should do the trick here.
Luxury items. I've had the hardest time regulating my heat from the waist up. I'm usually far too hot, and hardly ever too cold. I've experimented with a few different top layers and shells, but I struggled to find anything that breathed very well. I know I need pit zips, and the bigger the better (like my pants). Davy told me about the Millet Belay Hybrid jacket a year or so back, and I couldn't afford it at the time so I passed on it. This time around, I was ready to try just about anything to be able to regulate my heat for my upper body. I used it this trip and fell in love. It's a luxury item, and it's expensive. You don't need to spend nearly this much on a midlayer, but it was worth it for me. I'm convinced that a fleece vest would do just fine for snowshoeing. Anyway, here are the details on that jacket:
Millet Belay Hybrid. On sale now at Backcountry.com. I know that recreation outlet in AF has had them in the past, but I'm not sure what their current price is.
Two more necessities:
- gloves (my hands stay warm, so I don't need super beefy gloves. I wear these and I love 'em: http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/716/26635/Fox-Racing-Antifreeze-Gloves?term=fox gloves
My wife is too cold with them, and she needs warmer gloves.
- neck gaiter/buff/neck warmer, etc. With the Millet jacket, I don't end up needing a neck gaiter, since the collar is so nice. However, I never venture without my gaiter. They're pretty much just stretchy tubes of fabric to keep your neck warm. You do not want big thick ones like beanie material. You want thin and stretchy. I use something like this: http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/822/32255/Schampa-Tube-Multi-Wear-Headwear?term=gaiter
These can be worn as beanies, neck warmers, headbands; pretty much whatever you can come up with. These keep your neck and face warm on cold nights, but you can still breathe through them without getting them soaking wet.
Necessity: Merino Wool Long underwear. I like the medium weight. Here's what I've got:
Necessity (for me): light weight minus 33 (that's the brand) merino wool top. I'd prefer a medium weight, but most of those have zippers and I don't want a zipper on my base layer. This is my most important piece of gear. It never stinks, and it regulates my heat extremely well. I was hiking in just this shirt today for about 45 min and as long as I was moving I didn't get cold. Once I stopped moving, I put a jacket on immediately.
medium weight minus 33 merino wool long johns. These are my base layer on the bottom. I love these things. They're also a necessity for me, because I get cold. A lot of guys just use running tights or biker pants instead, but I need a bit more warmth.
Nice to have: I wear some old volcom snowboard pants over my merino wool long john bottoms. The pants are bulky and heavy, but they have 2' zippers on the inside of each leg, so I can really regulate my temp well with them. Plus they have built-in gaters which keep my socks dry. These pants used to be super waterproof, but the coating is wearing off, but it doesn't bother me. The only part of me that touches snow/water is from my shin down to my ankles, so waterproofing isn't very necessary.
Waterproof boots. Your boots usually have snow on them the entire day, even in a snowshoe. I use low-top hiking boots cuz that's what I like. Mine are waterproof, which means they don't let water in (and they don't really let sweat out very well either). The gaiters on the pants keep my socks dry.
I've been hiking with hiking socks lately, but this time I tried some icebreaker hike+lite mini socks (merino wool). I loved these socks so much that I ordered a second pair as soon as I got home. My socks were wet (from sweat) when I was done, but my feet were toasty warm, and the merino wool wicks the sweat away from your skin. So even though my socks were damp, my skin was totally dry. Crazy. Any merino wool socks should do the trick here.
Luxury items. I've had the hardest time regulating my heat from the waist up. I'm usually far too hot, and hardly ever too cold. I've experimented with a few different top layers and shells, but I struggled to find anything that breathed very well. I know I need pit zips, and the bigger the better (like my pants). Davy told me about the Millet Belay Hybrid jacket a year or so back, and I couldn't afford it at the time so I passed on it. This time around, I was ready to try just about anything to be able to regulate my heat for my upper body. I used it this trip and fell in love. It's a luxury item, and it's expensive. You don't need to spend nearly this much on a midlayer, but it was worth it for me. I'm convinced that a fleece vest would do just fine for snowshoeing. Anyway, here are the details on that jacket:
Millet Belay Hybrid. On sale now at Backcountry.com. I know that recreation outlet in AF has had them in the past, but I'm not sure what their current price is.
Two more necessities:
- gloves (my hands stay warm, so I don't need super beefy gloves. I wear these and I love 'em: http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/716/26635/Fox-Racing-Antifreeze-Gloves?term=fox gloves
My wife is too cold with them, and she needs warmer gloves.
- neck gaiter/buff/neck warmer, etc. With the Millet jacket, I don't end up needing a neck gaiter, since the collar is so nice. However, I never venture without my gaiter. They're pretty much just stretchy tubes of fabric to keep your neck warm. You do not want big thick ones like beanie material. You want thin and stretchy. I use something like this: http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/822/32255/Schampa-Tube-Multi-Wear-Headwear?term=gaiter
These can be worn as beanies, neck warmers, headbands; pretty much whatever you can come up with. These keep your neck and face warm on cold nights, but you can still breathe through them without getting them soaking wet.
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sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
I hope I don't overwhelm you with that info. I figure the more info, the better. It's funny, I'd heard so much about layering in the past, but it was always a pain and made me walk around like the michelin man. Now that I've learned how to do it, I've become a huge fan. The merino wool base layer was the game changer for me. That's the single most important part of my gear. So here's what works for me, from top to bottom:
- Regular old beanie
- stretchy neck gaiter/buff
- Base layer top (worn against the skin): thermal underwear. I like minus 33 brand merino wool long sleeve top, no zip.
- Mid layer (worn over the thermal top): vest or light fleece or Millet Belay Hybrid jacket ($$$ but very nice)
- base layer pants (worn against the skin, over your boxers/compression shorts): minus 33 merino wool long undies (mid weight)
- outer layer pants (worn over your base layer pants/thermals): regular old snowboard pants with vents, or running tights
- socks: merino wool thin socks
- shoes: something waterproof
- gloves: something flexible and slightly insulated
Extras:
- headlamp
- sun glasses or goggles depending on the conditions
- waterproof outer layer shell in case it's really snowing a lot. This is kinda like a poncho, just to keep your insulating tops from getting wet. The millet isn't waterproof, so I need something to keep it dry.
- if your pants don't have gaiters, you're going to want to get some. They're cheap, from $10-30, but they allow you to stay 100% dry from your calves down to your ankles.
Luxury:
- hydro flask
- Regular old beanie
- stretchy neck gaiter/buff
- Base layer top (worn against the skin): thermal underwear. I like minus 33 brand merino wool long sleeve top, no zip.
- Mid layer (worn over the thermal top): vest or light fleece or Millet Belay Hybrid jacket ($$$ but very nice)
- base layer pants (worn against the skin, over your boxers/compression shorts): minus 33 merino wool long undies (mid weight)
- outer layer pants (worn over your base layer pants/thermals): regular old snowboard pants with vents, or running tights
- socks: merino wool thin socks
- shoes: something waterproof
- gloves: something flexible and slightly insulated
Extras:
- headlamp
- sun glasses or goggles depending on the conditions
- waterproof outer layer shell in case it's really snowing a lot. This is kinda like a poncho, just to keep your insulating tops from getting wet. The millet isn't waterproof, so I need something to keep it dry.
- if your pants don't have gaiters, you're going to want to get some. They're cheap, from $10-30, but they allow you to stay 100% dry from your calves down to your ankles.
Luxury:
- hydro flask
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sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
if you wanted to go as cheap as possible:
- thermal shirt (kmart, walmart, etc)
- thermal long john bottoms
- light fleece zip-up top
- beanie
- athletic pants
- gaiters
- gloves
- thermal shirt (kmart, walmart, etc)
- thermal long john bottoms
- light fleece zip-up top
- beanie
- athletic pants
- gaiters
- gloves
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
That's the first 'selfie' I've ever taken. I kinda forgot to smile. I was concentrating so hard on making sure the summit sign was in frame that I forgot to smile.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Sorta. It's weird, there's not much else like it out there. It's like an insulated vest with softshell sleeves (the sleeves aren't insulated, but they are fleece lined). Most softshels are marketed as the outermost layer. The millet isn't meant to be rained or snowed on, they expect you to get a waterproof shell over it if you want. It's more of a mid-layer that you take on and off depending on your activity level and heat. Even with the millet, I'm hiking with it completely unzipped most of the time, with the huge pit zips all the way open. The only time I zip it up is if I stop to take a break and my body isn't producing heat anymroe, I need the jacket to trap more in.
Also, keep in mind that Davy is the expert on this stuff. I'm still in the learning phases, but I've learned a ton from him. Davy, feel free to correct any misinformation I may be passing along. Unless you're spending the night backpacking in the snow, you don't need to spend hundreds. I'll bet you've got 90% of this stuff in your closet at home.
The funny thing is, apart from all the merino wool stuff, my wife has a totally different setup from me, because that's what she likes. She doesn't need pit zips oddly enough, and I can't live without them. I'll find a jacket I love, only to find out it doesn't have pit zips. That's a deal-breaker for me because I get so dang hot hiking.
Also, keep in mind that Davy is the expert on this stuff. I'm still in the learning phases, but I've learned a ton from him. Davy, feel free to correct any misinformation I may be passing along. Unless you're spending the night backpacking in the snow, you don't need to spend hundreds. I'll bet you've got 90% of this stuff in your closet at home.
The funny thing is, apart from all the merino wool stuff, my wife has a totally different setup from me, because that's what she likes. She doesn't need pit zips oddly enough, and I can't live without them. I'll find a jacket I love, only to find out it doesn't have pit zips. That's a deal-breaker for me because I get so dang hot hiking.
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No not at all I need all the information I can get and I trust your opinion. Most of this winter stuff is new to me and I want to learn as much as possible.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Another thing people forget is that it's often warmer up in the mountains that it is down in the valley. The weather sucked at my house today, but it was much clearer and maybe even a little warmer up in the hills.
Before you go buying tons of gear, try different things out that you already have. Go on a strenuous hike in the winter. You'll start to see which clothing keeps you warm, which clothing makes you sweat, and which clothing is impossible to move in. Sweat is your enemy in cold climates. You'll get hot, work up a sweat, then you'll start getting super cold as your sweat cools you. That's why layers (and vents/pit zips) are so good. I'm constantly opening and closing vents, or putting on and taking off layers through the day as my body temperature changes. If you notice you're sweating a lot, take a layer off so you don't overheat and end up making your sweat freeze. The trick is to find thin layers that don't feel like you're wearing 3 hoodies on top of each other.
Also, cotton isn't your friend in active cold activities. It holds on to sweat and doesn't wick it away from your body. It'll keep you clammy all day long. Wool, and other synthetic materials for exercising, will wick the sweat away from your body. The best thing about wool (merino or other types) is that even when it's wet, it still insulates you and keeps you warm. I've kinda gone crazy over the wool stuff lately, I'm trying to get all my base layers to be merino wool. Now I just need to find a nice merino wool beanie.
Before you go buying tons of gear, try different things out that you already have. Go on a strenuous hike in the winter. You'll start to see which clothing keeps you warm, which clothing makes you sweat, and which clothing is impossible to move in. Sweat is your enemy in cold climates. You'll get hot, work up a sweat, then you'll start getting super cold as your sweat cools you. That's why layers (and vents/pit zips) are so good. I'm constantly opening and closing vents, or putting on and taking off layers through the day as my body temperature changes. If you notice you're sweating a lot, take a layer off so you don't overheat and end up making your sweat freeze. The trick is to find thin layers that don't feel like you're wearing 3 hoodies on top of each other.
Also, cotton isn't your friend in active cold activities. It holds on to sweat and doesn't wick it away from your body. It'll keep you clammy all day long. Wool, and other synthetic materials for exercising, will wick the sweat away from your body. The best thing about wool (merino or other types) is that even when it's wet, it still insulates you and keeps you warm. I've kinda gone crazy over the wool stuff lately, I'm trying to get all my base layers to be merino wool. Now I just need to find a nice merino wool beanie.
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I was under the impression that hard shells were the outermost layer to keep you dry in in-climate conditions. I do have some version of most of these things but I like to hear what others are wearing from people I know. Some of this stuff is expensive and I would really hate to buy something and it not be any where near what I need. I know we are all not the same but at least its a starting point.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Those costco down jackets are awesome, but not very useful for snowshoeing (for me). I have two great down jackets that are super toasty. They're great when I'm sitting around outside and not moving, but they're far too hot for snowshoeing in. If they had huge pit zips, then they'd still probably be too hot, but I'd see if I could get away with it in really cold temps. Even my millet borders on too hot. It'd probably be more useful if it had even less insulation on it.
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sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Exactly. One reason I buy from Backcountry.com so much is because of their lifetime no questions asked return policy. I can take a jacket out, and if it really isn't working for me, I can return it a week, a month, a year later. I'm sure plenty of people abuse their return policy, but sometimes you really don't know if it's going to work for you or not 'till you use it. I was convinced my millet jacket didn't fit me right and wasn't going to work on the mountain. However, after using it, I couldn't have been more wrong. It's just right for me. I've tried a lot of things, only to return them when they don't work out. I know REI has a one-year no questions asked return policy, which makes it really nice if you're not bonding with some gear. I had some hiking boots from REI that fell apart on my 5th trip out. They were $120, and I brought them back 5 months later, and they gave me a full refund. I bought some other boots now that have been amazing for my needs.
This could be one of those areas where I have no clue what I'm talking about and I'm giving you poor info. Davy will correct me tomorrow. I always thought that soft shells were meant to be shells. I have a softshell columbia jacket that's waterproof and stretchy and comfy. It's meant to be worn as the outermost layer. Maybe I'm incorrect on what the term "softshell" means. WHen I go to backcountry.com or REI and type in "softshell" it gives me stuff that's water "resistant", vs something like a fleece. Is a fleece a softshell? I don't know, but I wouldn't call it one. I think most softshells are meant to be worn when it's not going to be super wet out. If it is going to be crazy wet, you remove your softshell and put on a traditional ski jacket that's got a beefier outer layer.
Softshells don't really appeal to me now that I know how to layer better.
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That's good to know about the return policy's. What boots are you wearing? That will probably be my next purchase. I have some Sorel boots but they are probably a little heavy for snowshoeing over 3 lbs each!
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