The Wilderness Debate Comes to a Head

[scoutabout]

It's only $10 to join U4WDA!

Who doesn't have $10 to insure their right to recreate on public land in Utah?

Join U4WDA today!

http://www.u4wda.org/join_us.shtml

That's only $10. $10 is less than 4 gallons of gas. $10 is less than the cost of taking a date to the movies.

This is why we're 'losing' this fight with SUWA. They bring in more than $3 million a year. All we need from you is $10 a year. Help us out before we lose our public lands to SUWA and their out of state money.

 

[PierCed_3]

It's only $10 to join U4WDA!

Who doesn't have $10 to insure their right to recreate on public land in Utah?

Join U4WDA today!

http://www.u4wda.org/join_us.shtml

That's only $10. $10 is less than 4 gallons of gas. $10 is less than the cost of taking a date to the movies.

This is why we're 'losing' this fight with SUWA. They bring in more than $3 million a year. All we need from you is $10 a year. Help us out before we lose our public lands to SUWA and their out of state money.

I always thought it was 25$ or 6 gallons of gas . I have put my money where my mouth is... finally! I encourage others to do the same!



Became a supporting member of RME too! MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS.

 

[OCNORB]

Me too! I feel better already!

 

[UtahFire]

I get so tired of hearing the SUWA people saying that its only 40% of the public land they want as wilderness. Like we should be more than happy with the remaining 60%. This might be a good compromise if the 60% not included in the wilderness was of equal quality. We all know this is not the case.

It's like saying that golf courses used too much water so I propose that 40% of them should be closed. And, the 40% that I want closed are the best and most heavily used courses in the area.

I think I would be beat to death by some guys Big Burtha.

 

[mbryson]

.........I think I would be beat to death by some guys Big Burtha.

....and yes you would. (It'd never happen. To many business folk play golf.)

 

[utahmike]

I would bet that more then 60% of Utahns are OHVers.

2004 numbers: a little over 191,000 registered OHV's including snowmobiles.

In a report we presented the Governor and then the legislature this last summer we figured about 1 in 6 utahns over the age of 25 (writting without the report in front of me) owns a registered OHV. or perhaps a more accurate way of putting it is there is 1 OHV for every 6 utahns 25 years old and older.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

In a report we presented the Governor and then the legislature this last summer we figured about 1 in 6 utahns over the age of 25 (writting without the report in front of me) owns a registered OHV. or perhaps a more accurate way of putting it is there is 1 OHV for every 6 utahns 25 years old and older.

Wow

 

[waynehartwig]

2004 numbers: a little over 191,000 registered OHV's including snowmobiles.

In a report we presented the Governor and then the legislature this last summer we figured about 1 in 6 utahns over the age of 25 (writting without the report in front of me) owns a registered OHV. or perhaps a more accurate way of putting it is there is 1 OHV for every 6 utahns 25 years old and older.

That's a lot! And if each one of them had something to say to SUWA, we wouldn't be getting kicked off of any land! And I bet if half of them STAYED ON THE TRAILS we wouldn't have to fight as hard, either. Even if half of them were involved in some group, like the U4WDA, I bet that would help a great deal, too.

 

[mbryson]

......... And I bet if half of them STAYED ON THE TRAILS we wouldn't have to fight as hard, either.

I'd bet WAY more than half actually stay on the trails. I'd bet it's in the 90% range if not more than that.

Even if half of them were involved in some group, like the U4WDA, I bet that would help a great deal, too.

USA-ALL is the group on the front line actually litigating. {but part of your membership $$ from U4WDA goes to USA-ALL, as I understand it}. DONATIONS are WELCOME, I'm sure.

 

[waynehartwig]

I'd bet WAY more than half actually stay on the trails. I'd bet it's in the 90% range if not more than that.

I want to believe you and I hope your right.... I think it's more like what I said, but probably 40% don't know what they are doing while the other 10% do...

 

[utahmike]

That's a lot! And if each one of them had something to say to SUWA, we wouldn't be getting kicked off of any land! And I bet if half of them STAYED ON THE TRAILS we wouldn't have to fight as hard, either. Even if half of them were involved in some group, like the U4WDA, I bet that would help a great deal, too.

Well I have to comment on this, a person is free to disagree with me but I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of OHV users ride legally, what percentage of users don’t is impossible to know. But I believe it is a small but very destructive and selfish minority. Ignorance is no excuse. Its true many people are amazingly oblivious to the laws and the tenuous situation their access to their beloved public land is in.

The comment about if even half of them were apart of some group is spot on, and is true of all user groups. How may of our own community are apart of U4WDA? Very few. How many are members of USA-ALL? I can tell you of both organizations nobody is in it for the money, increased memberships to USA-ALL translates directly into more involvement in more issues, more negotiations, more persuasion and education of elected officials more education for the public, and if needs be more law suits to protect your rights. I hate law suits but they are a necessary evil.

I have NO doubt we could roll the enviros in this State if all the motorized users would pull their head out, and if you’re reading this and you haven’t joined USA-ALL I am talking directly to you . Perhaps we have pissed you off, for that I am sorry, perhaps you haven’t heard of us, I don’t know why you haven’t joined but you really need to.

When I am old and gray I plan on recreating in the same areas we now enjoy maybe more, if that doesn’t happen it wont be because the motorized community didn’t have enough money or enough political clout to make it happen, it will be because many, many, people stood by and did NOTHING. And forgive me for being emotional but I would like to strangle those who whimsically sit by and say they won’t close down my roads, my campsites, my trails. They have, they can, and they will, unless we do something. That something is join USA-ALL join U4WDA, if you cant contribute time, contribute money, stand up for your rights for heck sake!

I have said it Thousands of times...look at what USA-ALL has done with a small fraction, in fact about 1/20th, of SUWA's budget, imagine what we could do if we had half of their budget, (SUWA's 2002 total revenue approx 2.8 million, stay tuned for 2004 and 2005 numbers coming soon) After all was said and done in 2002 SUWA's left over revenue was some 300,000 clams, more than USA-ALL would have in 2002 and 2003 combined. The good news is we are on a steep upswing, bigger donations, Skyrocketing membership, better strategies, better political connections, bigger guns. USA-ALL 2006 is like bionic USA-ALL, USA-ALL on ‘roids minus the small unit and uncontrollable rage.

Sorry for getting on my soap box, just help out and join. For you members, THANK YOU, you are what gives me hope.

 

[ZUKEYPR]

My question is why hasn't someone developed, packaged, and sold to the school districts a plan for educating the young, very young, on proper trail ediquette and the tread lightly principles? You can attempt to educate someone as much as you want while you're on a trail but more than not it will go in one ear and out the other and most likely turn into some level of an altercation. They are already set in their ways and most likely learned it from their parents, bigger brother, or Uncle Tom. If you educate them early, when Uncle Tom decides to take "that shortcut", and little Johnny corrects him it will make him think twice the next time and reconfirm what little Johnny learned is correct. I would think with a outdoor advocate like Huntsman in office right now that this would be plausible.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

My question is why hasn't someone developed, packaged, and sold to the school districts a plan for educating the young, very young, on proper trail ediquette and the tread lightly principles? ... I would think with a outdoor advocate like Huntsman in office right now that this would be plausible.

I think that is a great idea, not a new idea, but a great idea. I know the U4WDA would back you 100% in the project, but unless more people step up and get involved, its dead in the water... too many projects, too few human resources.

We have had some amazing ideas introduced to the U4 at one time or another, some of them literally brilliant ideas, but they all take manpower & money (the manpower is of FAR greater need).

So, "money where your mouth" is proposal, get the ball rolling on this ZUKEYPR and I (and the U4WDA) will help in every way!

Don't leave it to "someone needs to do it"... it won't happen

 

[scoutabout]

Great comments Mike. If we lose this battle it won't be because we're wrong. It'll be because too few people turned their talk into action and got involved.

If you're not a member of U4WDA then join! Use our secure online form here. It's only $10!!

Then join USA-ALL here.

Everyone on RME who lives (or wheels) in Utah should be a member of both organizations. No excuses. What are you going to say when you're favorite trail is closed? "Aw, I should've gotten involved sooner"? Get involved now!

Good comments from Kurt also. ZUKEYPR, come to the U4WDA meeting on Thursday night at LHM Jeep in Sandy 6:30PM.

 

[scoutabout]

Just an after thought...

I see a lot of posts on RME (and other places) that start out "Why hasn't someone..." or "Why hasn't the OHV community...". Kurt answered the question. The reasons we aren't able to do as much as we'd like are money and manpower.

Not everyone can spend 10-15 hours per month volunteering with U4WDA or USA-ALL, and not everyone can afford to send money. But everyone can do one or the other.

If you can't volunteer, send in donations. USA-ALL is a 501(c)3 charity, so donations are tax deductible (the end of the year is rapidly approaching). Make a donation to the USA-ALL legal defense fund here. The next time you spend a small fortune buying parts for your rig think about how much money you've given to help keep YOUR favorite trails open.

We're facing a serious battle and serious enemies. There are 3 miles of legal OHV trails in Salt Lake County. How many miles were there 10 years ago? Or 20 years ago?

We've lost access to areas that were once considered "open forever". What are we going to have left in 10-20 years if we don't start organizing and raising money NOW?

This doesn't affect the "web wheelers" because you never leave the message boards. For the rest of us who are pounding dirt every weekend, it's time to step up!

 

[OCNORB]

This doesn't affect the "web wheelers" because you never leave the message boards. For the rest of us who are pounding dirt every weekend, it's time to step up!

Oh yeah, insult the masses; that will get them more involved!

 

[utahmike]

My question is why hasn't someone developed, packaged, and sold to the school districts a plan for educating the young, very young, on proper trail ediquette and the tread lightly principles?

Well...that sounds brilliant, oh yeah, we already have done this. Last fall and early this year we developed a program designed to hit Jr. High and High School students. USA-ALL joined Tread Lightly as a voting member; we have adopted much of their curriculum. We don’t agree with them 100% but we agree with 90-95% of what they teach. We even had discussions with Tread Lightly about doing a training course for a few people we wanted to include as instructors. The problem we ran into was we ran out of funding, we attempted to get some educational grant money but we were turned down, we will seek those same grants this spring. The grants are from the State OHV program, the money comes from OHV registrations. We have done most of the leg work. Now it is simply a matter of getting enough money together that we can keep it going. We thought we would eventually put together a video and convince the State to make it a mandatory part of the Driver education curriculum.

 

[ZUKEYPR]

Well...that sounds brilliant, oh yeah, we already have done this.

You know I bet you don't attract a whole lot of new membership with your scarcastic overtones. And they wonder why folks don't want to participate.

As for the Jr High/ HS level, you're targeting the wrong peer group, it's to late. Take it from somone who has been directly involved with that group for the past 16.5 years.

 

[waynehartwig]

We thought we would eventually put together a video and convince the State to make it a mandatory part of the Driver education curriculum.

That's a good idea...

 

[waynehartwig]

As for the Jr High/ HS level, you're targeting the wrong peer group, it's to late. Take it from somone who has been directly involved with that group for the past 16.5 years.

With that attitude it's too late to teach anyone anything. Granted, they may not pay attention or give a rats ass, but when do you do it? When they are in elementary, or pre teen ages, they don't care and it doesn't concern them so they won't pay attention unless you have a cute little furbee teaching the course. Besides, when they are that young, it's their parents influence taking them off the trails. When they get older, into their teenage years, they are starting to make their own decisions on where to travel and dad or mom is no longer riding the ohv with them.