Tired of getting harrassed by cops

[Medsker]

That's why there's a seat belt law. It saves tax payer dollars when serious injuries are reduced.

Boy and I could swear I was paying for my own injuries with all those monthly payments to my insurance company for the past 22 years.

I'm not saying I never wear my seat belt. Especially if my doors are off it is always on. But I am an extremely defensive driver and have never been in a serious accident. I drive my cars like I drive my motorcycle...assuming everyone is going to pull out or pull over and change lanes or run the red light and try to hit me. If traffic is heavy I don't even allow people to talk to me in my car because it distracts me. If my cel phone rings I pull over to talk. I'm by no means saying I'm the best driver in the world or even the neighborhood I'm just saying I try to do those things I believe help me not to get into accidents. If I drive at 25 mph along the backroads in my neighborhood the 1.3 miles to work without my seatbelt on I don't see where exactly that has anything to do with the government. What right does the government have to tell me, a 38 year old man, that I have to wear my sealtbelt.

I know this rant is not going to change anyone's opinion and it certainly is not going to change any laws. I can also promise everyone that while I am more than open to listen to what you say I highly doubt you will change my opinion...my sister the emt has been trying to for years. But I thought I would give you my reasoning for how I feel.

Medsker

 

[Stephenw]

I have been all over the country, and in very few states is there such a blatant disregard for the speed limit as in Utah. I was driving in the right lane on 215, doing 65 mph. Lots of people passing me were doing 70 to 75. I came under an overpass and saw a highway patrol car. He turned on his lights and pulled out. I thought he was going after the guy who just went bye doing about 80. Not a chance, instead, he pulled me over for mud flaps.

 

[Medsker]

I have been all over the country, and in very few states is there such a blatant disregard for the speed limit as in Utah. I was driving in the right lane on 215, doing 65 mph. Lots of people passing me were doing 70 to 75. I came under an overpass and saw a highway patrol car. He turned on his lights and pulled out. I thought he was going after the guy who just went bye doing about 80. Not a chance, instead, he pulled me over for mud flaps.

He was just mad at you for impeding traffic

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Boy and I could swear I was paying for my own injuries with all those monthly payments to my insurance company for the past 22 years...

Does your insurance company bankroll the government funded Fire/Rescue? If your in a bad accident, which is propagated by lack of seatbelt, Does your insurance company refund the police resources that are tied up in traffic control as they peel you off the dash

I'm not arguing wearing the seatbelt (or obeying any traffic laws for that matter)... but there is no doubt that car accidents cost money... money that the insurance companies don't even begin to pay.

 

[Medsker]

Does your insurance company bankroll the government funded Fire/Rescue? If your in a bad accident, which is propagated by lack of seatbelt, Does your insurance company refund the police resources that are tied up in traffic control as they peel you off the dash

I'm not arguing wearing the seatbelt (or obeying any traffic laws for that matter)... but there is no doubt that car accidents cost money... money that the insurance companies don't even begin to pay.

No that is payed by the 42% in taxes I pay living in Utah

I'm not saying it can't cause other problems I'm just saying it should be my choice. Just like it should be my choice if I have computerized stuff on my vehicle that drives it for me if it thinks I am doing it poorly (electronic stabilizing, I have it on mine and like it but I should be able to turn it off if I don't want it on, I can't turn it all the way off). These are all ways the goverment gets into our lives when in my opinion government should be getting smaller and out of our lives. Personally I don't want them telling me what I have to do and when I have to do it...but that's just me. I want to be able to have choices even if they can harm me.

For me it all started back when I quit rock climbing because every route I went to climb started to be bolted. To me a bolted route took all the challenge out of it. When you place your own protection you take a risk. When you bolt a route there is very little risk. This opened the sport up to lots and lots of people that made the sport crowded and the routes had bolts places where I used to place protection. I kept asking people what gave them the right to place bolts on these routes and they just say "We want to make it safer for people" or "This is what people want". This is when I figured the world was changing...and in a direction I didn't like. Fifteen-twenty years later this is where we are, people making laws to "protect" us from ourselves.

Medsker

 

[Stephen]

I guess just obay laws no matter how much they violate my rights

What rights are being violated? I think that most motor vehicle laws are put in place for the public good. And most (notice that I am saying most) are put into place after someone did something stupid and thus propagated the need for a law. If we didn't have certain restrictions then the roads would be a free-for-all ala Mad Max!
So please tell me, how are your rights being violated? Remember, operating a motor vehicle is not a right, it is a privilege.

 

[SAMI]

Remember, operating a motor vehicle is not a right, it is a privilege.

this is the smartest thing that can be said in these, 'whiny-woe-is-me threads about motor vehicle restictions/LEO complaints' threads...

Get over it, or ride a got dam bike like SPUNKY

-Jason

 

[BioNuke1]

You think you're being targeted by driving a 4x4, try driving a sports car in Orem at night and watch your tail. lol

 

[Maverick]

So please tell me, how are your rights being violated? Remember, operating a motor vehicle is not a right, it is a privilege.

I've never agreed with that one...a privilege???

Maybe operating a motor vehicle on public roads is a privilege, but the ability to travel (via whatever) is a right. I agree with the need to have licensed drivers operating said vehicles, but the whole "privilege" thing has always bothered me.

:-\

 

[Herzog]

I've never agreed with that one...a privilege???

Maybe operating a motor vehicle on public roads is a privilege, but the ability to travel (via whatever) is a right. I agree with the need to have licensed drivers operating said vehicles, but the whole "privilege" thing has always bothered me.

:-\

I'll agree with that. I almost commented earlier.

 

[Stephen]

I've never agreed with that one...a privilege???

Maybe operating a motor vehicle on public roads is a privilege, but the ability to travel (via whatever) is a right. I agree with the need to have licensed drivers operating said vehicles, but the whole "privilege" thing has always bothered me.

:-\

You have the right to travel, yes. You have the right to move from one place to another without restriction, this is an inalienable human right. But you do not have the right to operate a motor vehicle. You are granted that 'right' from the government by passing a series of test that show that you have ability to operate said vehicle safely and responsibly. If at some point down the line you show that you can no longer do that, the 'right' can be removed, thus making it a privilege.
Now, as to whether or not you can still operate a vehicle is semantics. What is usually being debated is the 'right' to operate a vehicle on public roads while violating certain laws that are in place (ie. no mud flaps). Your right to travel is not in question, your 'right' to operate a motor vehicle is.
Now this whole discussion of rights and ability to travel can (and probably will) digress into a debate over what the extent of government control should be and what borders mean, ect. So my more or less final word on this topic is this: The government is here for the good of the people, but is only as good as the people who make up the government. If you have a problem with the government, change it! The biggest problems with this country are apathy and ignorance. People don't care about what is going on if it doesn't appear to directly affect them. And then, when it does affect them people are too ignorant about the law and how the government works to do anything but complain. Pay attention, read, learn, understand if you do that then chances are that you won't be bothered by the law and the whole world will make a lot more sense.

 

[Tacoma]

This thread is interesting.

Neat mix of replies. It's hard to come out against stuff like this without being against law and order maybe, but in reality, I think this thread is delineating strict statists from those who believe in more personal freedom.

Keep it coming.

 

[Maverick]

You have the right to travel, yes. You have the right to move from one place to another without restriction, this is an inalienable human right. But you do not have the right to operate a motor vehicle. You are granted that 'right' from the government by passing a series of test that show that you have ability to operate said vehicle safely and responsibly. If at some point down the line you show that you can no longer do that, the 'right' can be removed, thus making it a privilege.
Now, as to whether or not you can still operate a vehicle is semantics. What is usually being debated is the 'right' to operate a vehicle on public roads while violating certain laws that are in place (ie. no mud flaps). Your right to travel is not in question, your 'right' to operate a motor vehicle is.
Now this whole discussion of rights and ability to travel can (and probably will) digress into a debate over what the extent of government control should be and what borders mean, ect. So my more or less final word on this topic is this: The government is here for the good of the people, but is only as good as the people who make up the government. If you have a problem with the government, change it! The biggest problems with this country are apathy and ignorance. People don't care about what is going on if it doesn't appear to directly affect them. And then, when it does affect them people are too ignorant about the law and how the government works to do anything but complain. Pay attention, read, learn, understand if you do that then chances are that you won't be bothered by the law and the whole world will make a lot more sense.

Ahhh, well put...and good additional points too.

Brett (wishes they'd pull over slowpokes in the left lanes - that's against the law too)

 

[Stephen]

(wishes they'd pull over slowpokes in the left lanes - that's against the law too)

Damn rolling road-blocks! I hate them, I hate them, I HATE THEM!!!! ARGHHH!!!!!

 

[Maverick]

Damn rolling road-blocks! I hate them, I hate them, I HATE THEM!!!! ARGHHH!!!!!

After my carpool buddy switched jobs in January, I ponied for the carpool pass....best $50/month I've ever spent, especially in the afternoon.

For the next few months I'll be working in the Basin (Vernal area). Whole 'nother kind of traffic...like folks that can't maintain 65 on the highway....speed up, slow down, speed up, slow down...then when you try and pass them, they try and speed up. (found out my stocker powerjoke can leave a honda pilot on a hill, wooohoooo)

 

[Herzog]

You have the right to travel, yes. You have the right to move from one place to another without restriction, this is an inalienable human right. But you do not have the right to operate a motor vehicle. You are granted that 'right' from the government by passing a series of test that show that you have ability to operate said vehicle safely and responsibly. If at some point down the line you show that you can no longer do that, the 'right' can be removed, thus making it a privilege.

I think it all still has to do with fed, state, & city roads. I could, by all rights and means purchase (or build if you will) a motorized vehicle and drive it on my own property or any other unmanaged road or terrain. Right? I would hope so!

Does it come down to the right of operating the vehicle itself, or the right of operating the vehicle on gov. routes?

 

[Medsker]

See I think if I pay taxes to build the roads and I do the things that make it so I adhere to the laws (drivers license, car registered, obey laws) then it is my right to drive. That right can be taken away if I dis-obey the laws governing it but as long as my tax dollars fund the roads then it is my right to use them. It would be a privilege if the roads were funded privately. I consider it a privlage to be a member of the United States of America but because I am a citizen there are certain rights that go along with that...including the use of things funded by the government and my taxes (police, fire department, roads, Forest Service, etc). This is why I pay my taxes. If you are trying to convince me these are a privilege then that would mean paying my taxes is an option (which by the book it is but try not paying it and see what happens). To me a privilege is something they give me because they are being nice not because they have too. The government can't randomly for no reason walk up to random people and say "From now on you can't use the roads...no reason, we just say so" (this of course excludes dirt roads which they do all the time).

My random thought are now over for now.

Medsker

 

[Cody]

It's a privilege. If you comply with the rules the government sets for you to operate a MV on state/federal roads, then you have the right to drive. If you don't, no driving. Seems pretty simple to me.

Aren't most roads funded by gas tax? If so, then only those choosing to use the roads are really paying for them anyway. I'm not 100% sure on the tax thing though.

I see how people feel intruded upon by a law that forces them to be safer and more responsible. There are just bigger fish to fry than the government intruding on your right to be an idiot.

 

[waynehartwig]

its funny, once I started to obey the laws, I quit getting harrassed.

Yeah, same here... When I was a KID, I got pulled over and harrassed on a daily (literally) basis. Once cop even threatened to make me a pedestrian any way he could. That's what you get for being 18 and having a 71 Torino with a 351C-4V I can still remember flying down main street, racing some other 'think they know it all', doing like 100 mph in a 25 zone. I bet it was becuase of this that they changed over to two lane

 

[waynehartwig]

I guess just obay laws no matter how much they violate my rights

If they violate your rights, then complain (to your senate, etc, not us ). Just becuase you don't agree with them, doesn't mean you don't have to comply with them. If you don't agree with them, then voice up and do something to change it. That's the reason things happen anyway, becuase people like you complain to us about them, and not your elected officials. This is also the reason behind why we are losing our public lands. If YOU don't talk, someone else will speak for you. If you don't like the way they speak for you, then speak up!