Tow rig ?? Automatic transmissions---

[mbryson]

Talking '87 (F350 or F250 ext. cab) through current SuperDuty or older ('94-'02) Dodge ext. cab

What sucks? How much to repair (if you can)? How much for rebuilds? If I can snare a diesel, I don't think I'll hop it up (with the exception of a freer flowing exhaust and intake--no chips). Does the poor transmission reputation come from modded diesels or lack of maintenance or ???


{I can get what I want, as long as it's an automatic }

Please post your mileage if you have/haven't had issues, and if you have had issues what happened and how much to repair etc.

 

[Milner]

Either way with an auto, you are looking at a tranny rebuild if it is over 100K. I love my '95 PSD and it's new tranny (Thanks Holmer )
Honest milage ranges from 13-18mpg....depending on how I drive it
"Normal" daily driving 14-15, I can milk more, but what fun is that.
Most mods actually help the milage. Intake/exhaust for sure!
For ford info check www.dieselstop.com there are sections for specific generations of trucks and the people are very helpful. Also Baz's website has a lot of good first generation psd info and a what to look for section.
http://pages.prodigy.net/stevebaz/_import/pages.prodigy.net/stevebaz/index3.html

I fully agree the cummins is a better motor, I just like the Ford truck better....well and the deal was right

Edit:
Only problem I have had in the CPS, $80 part and 5 minute fix.

 

[mbryson]

Oh, one other thing....

V10s (that's what 'mom' likes)..... Seem to have a reputation for poor mileage and somewhat adaquete towing ability (additionally, some of the early Ford V10 have a sparkplug issue that you could need to replace the head at great expense {and peril}). I'd assume they are NOT cheap to rebuild but they are kinda cheaper to buy. Any comments on the fuel mileage or rebuild intervals/issues/cost?

 

[N-Smooth]

just replaced the tranny in my 99 cummins at 60k, but the previous owner chipped it and put in injectors and junk. he didn't tow much, i think he just raced it around town :-\
besides that, i love the auto.

 

[rockdog]

Mbryson, The early fords (95-2000) had auto tranny issues. The dodges have tranny issues when hopped up and rodded. That said, I have an 01 psd, with an auto tranny. I could'nt find what I wanted with a five speed or I would'nt have the auto. That said, I'd consider other things too. One thing is space. The ford crew has wayyy more room than the dodge. If you have kids, I would'nt even consider a ext. cab. You'll wish you would have got the crew later. Two, Milage vs power. I'm not trying to start a fight but the 7.3 has more power than the cummins in stock form. More cubes. But the cummins will get better fuel mileage. Again, less cubes. I like my f350 for towing. I'm glad I got it instead of thr f250. 27 foot gooseneck, w/two toyotas and you are'nt even on the overload springs. powerstrokes have issues like any other vehicles though. Cps sensors, glow plug relays and harrnesses, ect. Just food for thought.

 

[footin fool]

what ever you get dont chip it. I have a 99 power stroke and love it. thetranny problems they had where from chipping it. The chip didn't change the tranny computer. Diesels are not meant to be raced. they are for pulling and running around.If you drive them right and maintain them, they will last forevere. I lost a water pump on mine and a glow relay. This wil happen with any of them. My thoughts are ford or dodge you cant go wrong. the chevy stay away from.

 

[mbryson]

Mbryson, The early fords (95-2000) had auto tranny issues. The dodges have tranny issues when hopped up and rodded. That said, I have an 01 psd, with an auto tranny. I could'nt find what I wanted with a five speed or I would'nt have the auto. That said, I'd consider other things too. One thing is space. The ford crew has wayyy more room than the dodge. If you have kids, I would'nt even consider a ext. cab. You'll wish you would have got the crew later. Two, Milage vs power. I'm not trying to start a fight but the 7.3 has more power than the cummins in stock form. More cubes. But the cummins will get better fuel mileage. Again, less cubes. I like my f350 for towing. I'm glad I got it instead of thr f250. 27 foot gooseneck, w/two toyotas and you are'nt even on the overload springs. powerstrokes have issues like any other vehicles though. Cps sensors, glow plug relays and harrnesses, ect. Just food for thought.

Thanks for your views!

I have kids, (3 kids, 8, 5 and baby) so the ext. cab would work OK. I'd love a crew, but don't want to buck up the $$$ for the Dodge crew (they're excellent, IMHO-I've ridden in them from SLC to St. George with no stops and was fine-I'm 6'0 and about 230 lbs with pile of sh!t knees). I LOVE the simplicity of the 12 valve (kinda like an old Jeep) in the older Dodges (Club Cabs) and feel with my small kids I could make those work, thus opening the door for the TTB F250 also which would probably get a swapped in HP D44 as I don't care at all for the TTB--ala Hickey-but I don't need the D60. Honestly, I'll be towing a Jeep on a trailer anywhere between 6-10 times per year (realisticly) so a 250 would work OK (esp. with airbags). Not that I'm against a 350 at all.

I've looked from NEW (HOLY ^#%@ $$,$$$, esp. for a DuraMax--leaves me NO budget to have fun or for some kind of financial emergency--not happening) to rebuilding an older 6.9L or 7.3L F*rd with an ATS turbo and whatnot and have kinda just decided to find a decent rig with some miles on it that is in serviceable condition.

This leaves me the following choices in order of preference. Requirements would be not RED A/C, 4WD, room for the kids and towing ability STOCK. Some mileage would be nice, but I'm used to the 8-9 mpg Suburban.

1) '87-91 V3500 Chev CREW CAB with 7.4L and don't care on the transmission-- in the $4-7K range and in respectable condition with A/C that works.......VERY RARE....worth a small finders fee to me if I can close a deal I know this kind of truck very well and accept it with it's few flaws--gas mileage being the biggest one.

2) '99-'02 SD Crew Cab Ford or Excursion---tough to find deals as they seem to be very sought after--at the very top of my price range unless they have 'silly' miles on them.....200kish...

3) '98 12 valve CTD ext. cab--perfect fit and kind of affordable but quite rare with the access doors and that adds to the price a little. The 24 valve are in a similar price range and it seems you just have to accept some noise in these trucks (might need some 'help' from Cody here).

4) '94-'97 CTD or '94-'97ish Crew Cab Ford or '99-'02ish ext.cab Ford--both are excellent trucks and each has their issues. I 'think' I know what the issues are and accept each one for what it is.

5) '94-'97 Powerstroke ext. cab Ford or 460 Crew cab or V10 Excursion (I know of a GREAT deal on a 2000 Limited with all freeway miles from here to Vegas and back)--V10 has the gas mileage issues and possible spark plug problems as it's a 2000, VERY COMFORTABLE and definitely the wife's choice, a 460 is a GREAT truck engine but you've got the gas mileage issues and the ext. cab has the mileage and power, but is a little more difficult to put the baby seat in than the quad cab type trucks (Ford or Dodge)

6) '89 Suburban that I already own--Stumpy new motor {383ish}, overdrive trans, A/C work, some paint and interior work and I've got something I'm really comfortable with but still gets poor mileage. Biggest 'con' is this needs attention NOW and I'm still building my YJ. Very decent Sub with low miles for the year and could be great with a little work.

Again, the only GLARING issues with the above choices are the automatic transmissions. All are good trucks and should give me good service for my needs if I can resolve the auto trans issues.

 

[Milner]

Pull the 383 out o the burb and drop a 12v cummins in it

Yea, I know, talk about hard to find.

Go for what ever you can find the best deal on....
When I was looking, I stayed open to Ford or dodge, the right deal came and i took it.
All have there merits.
As for the ttb issue....it is not and issue....stay tuned
Really I have not had an problem with it yet. I know there were problems in the past with the TTB in this truck, but once everything is done right, the work ok....and are fun on dirt roads at speed Without a lift, they are not a problem at all. I worried that the front would lift with a heavy load, but it has not been an issue at all.
Dodge wise, I would say stay 12v. Easier/cheaper to mod. You know you will do it, even if you say you won't....
I have driven many different setups towing....from a '66 F250 with a huge camper to new dodges and SD's. All towing the same types of loads....EB's buggy's, jeeps, etc. A lot of time in both my Ford and Brandons Dodge. Even tough I love the cummins, given the choice of any of them, I would keep the truck I have. I think a lot of it is wheelbase. Mine is a ex cab long bed (sucks to park) but it tows like a dream....don't even know the Bronco is back there.
JMHO from what I have experienced. both Ford and Dodge need better brakes, but the Ford is better. The cummins can be modded to BIG HP, but a mild Ford has a better/more usable powerband. Both have small back seats, but the Dodge extra door is nice. The Fords seem to have less rattles in the interior, cab feels more solid. Ford cab seems a little roomier.
This is just from the trucks I have been around, and is only my OPINION, so no wars please!!
JMHOs
Marc

 

[Caleb]

Pull the 383 out o the burb and drop a 12v cummins in it

Yea, I know, talk about hard to find.

Go for what ever you can find the best deal on....
When I was looking, I stayed open to Ford or dodge, the right deal came and i took it.
All have there merits.
As for the ttb issue....it is not and issue....stay tuned
Really I have not had an problem with it yet. I know there were problems in the past with the TTB in this truck, but once everything is done right, the work ok....and are fun on dirt roads at speed Without a lift, they are not a problem at all. I worried that the front would lift with a heavy load, but it has not been an issue at all.
Dodge wise, I would say stay 12v. Easier/cheaper to mod. You know you will do it, even if you say you won't....
I have driven many different setups towing....from a '66 F250 with a huge camper to new dodges and SD's. All towing the same types of loads....EB's buggy's, jeeps, etc. A lot of time in both my Ford and Brandons Dodge. Even tough I love the cummins, given the choice of any of them, I would keep the truck I have. I think a lot of it is wheelbase. Mine is a ex cab long bed (sucks to park) but it tows like a dream....don't even know the Bronco is back there.
JMHO from what I have experienced. both Ford and Dodge need better brakes, but the Ford is better. The cummins can be modded to BIG HP, but a mild Ford has a better/more usable powerband. Both have small back seats, but the Dodge extra door is nice. The Fords seem to have less rattles in the interior, cab feels more solid. Ford cab seems a little roomier.
This is just from the trucks I have been around, and is only my OPINION, so no wars please!!
JMHOs
Marc

SCREW YOU MAN!!!









ok, not really...

I agree with just about everything you said, except for the brake issue...if its a SD or a newer Dodge that have discs all around then I think the brakes a plenty good, if they have drums in the rear then I agree, the brakes need to be addressed. I really like my truck, the only thing I wish was different was it was a crew cab. I was just like Milner (can't say Marc ) in that I was open to Dodge or Ford and when the right deal came along I jumped on it. They all have their issues, if the auto trannys were a better tranny stock then I would really rather have an auto, but since I dont want to have to either a) spend money on a rebuilt stocker or b) spend big bucks on a nice ATS setup, I'm happy with my 6 speed

 

[Milner]

Agreed, I was refering to the brakes on the older trucks. Ever time I drove Brandon's I about killed us I;m pretty sure his rear brakes were screwed up though.

I really want rear disk

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

I have an 01, F350 crew, V10, 80,000 miles. and I love it. Spark plug issues were adressed in earlier years, but I was told to check them once a year to make sure they are tight. Mileage is about 13-14 empty, and 10 pulling a 97 TJ. When I bought it I looked at the difference in price between the V10 and PSD, it was 7 to 8K, for comparable trucks. Options, mileage etc. Savings in gas mileage at the time would have taken 9 to 10 years to payback. so i bought the V10. No tranny issues yet, and the mechanics at Truckland told me the trans is the same as the PSD, and the V10 is not nearly as hard on them. Having said all that, It is not going to do 90 up Spanish Fork Canyon with the Jeep behind. More like 65-70. I don't know if you could pull doubles or anything. And I did warp the rotors and have to have them replaced at about 75,000 miles. Hope it helps.

 

[mbryson]

I have an 01, F350 crew, V10, 80,000 miles. and I love it. Spark plug issues were adressed in earlier years, but I was told to check them once a year to make sure they are tight. Mileage is about 13-14 empty, and 10 pulling a 97 TJ. When I bought it I looked at the difference in price between the V10 and PSD, it was 7 to 8K, for comparable trucks. Options, mileage etc. Savings in gas mileage at the time would have taken 9 to 10 years to payback. so i bought the V10. No tranny issues yet, and the mechanics at Truckland told me the trans is the same as the PSD, and the V10 is not nearly as hard on them. Having said all that, It is not going to do 90 up Spanish Fork Canyon with the Jeep behind. More like 65-70. I don't know if you could pull doubles or anything. And I did warp the rotors and have to have them replaced at about 75,000 miles. Hope it helps.

That's kinda my logic towards the V10. Your mileage is higher than almost everybody else has quoted, though. What gears and tires are you running?

 

[BCGPER]

I beg to differ. If you would like to come look at my paperwork, I'll prove to you in writing DODGE BRAKES SUCK! (I'm changing them almost 2 to 1 compared to the Ford) On the plus side, Dodge get's the ride vote hands down, inless you're willing to spring for an 05 SD.

But, with that being said, they do have "THE" engine right now. Marc, you know I'm a Chevy guy, but the $10k extra they were asking for the bow tie just didn't fly with my wallet.

V-10 Mileage? An honest 10.5 MPG average, running 35's, 4.30 gears, and mostly city. Around 9.5 MPG towning. Personally, I've owned both gas and diesel Fords, and still drive both almost daily today. I will NEVER own another diesel as a daily driver.

You know I have the Super Cab. "IF" I were in your shoes, I'd steer clear of one, and hold out for the club cab. 3 little ones aren't bad in a super, but the lil buggars grow faster than weeds. Get the four door, mama will thank you!

If you're looking at V-10's, climb under the thing and look for the 4:30 gears. If it's got the 3.73's, just run away. ALL of the 3.73 geared V-10's I've driven are pigs.

SCREW YOU MAN!!!









ok, not really...

I agree with just about everything you said, except for the brake issue...if its a SD or a newer Dodge that have discs all around then I think the brakes a plenty good, if they have drums in the rear then I agree, the brakes need to be addressed. I really like my truck, the only thing I wish was different was it was a crew cab. I was just like Milner (can't say Marc ) in that I was open to Dodge or Ford and when the right deal came along I jumped on it. They all have their issues, if the auto trannys were a better tranny stock then I would really rather have an auto, but since I dont want to have to either a) spend money on a rebuilt stocker or b) spend big bucks on a nice ATS setup, I'm happy with my 6 speed

 

[Caleb]

I beg to differ. If you would like to come look at my paperwork, I'll prove to you in writing DODGE BRAKES SUCK! (I'm changing them almost 2 to 1 compared to the Ford) On the plus side, Dodge get's the ride vote hands down, inless you're willing to spring for an 05 SD.

are you talking about the new dodges? just curious, I have never heard anything bad about them and the two 03s and the two 04s we had, had no issues with brakes at all...the older Dodges (uptill about 98 I think) brakes suck ass big time. Like Milner said, any time I drove one of ours it was scarry at first, till I remembered how bad the brakes sucked, and yeah we would replace them quite often, that was the only vehicle I have ever seen that you could not buy a lifetime rotor for, they only offered three month replacement and it was about every 6 months we were replacing them.

 

[BCGPER]

Mine's an 02 2500. Ditto on the warranty, NOBODY covers commercial vehicles. I'm getting about 12-15K out of a set of Dodge pads. About half the time though, when the pads fail the rotor gets wasted before I can get pads on it. (seems like the pads always fail near Rock Springs)

are you talking about the new dodges? just curious, I have never heard anything bad about them and the two 03s and the two 04s we had, had no issues with brakes at all...the older Dodges (uptill about 98 I think) brakes suck ass big time. Like Milner said, any time I drove one of ours it was scarry at first, till I remembered how bad the brakes sucked, and yeah we would replace them quite often, that was the only vehicle I have ever seen that you could not buy a lifetime rotor for, they only offered three month replacement and it was about every 6 months we were replacing them.

 

[mbryson]

................
But, with that being said, they do have "THE" engine right now. Marc, you know I'm a Chevy guy, but the $10k extra they were asking for the bow tie just didn't fly with my wallet.............

That's no joke either. I told them I could go up the road and get an 'equivilent' Dodge for about $7K less, and an eqivilent Ford for about $4K less. Oh, and try to get a manual trans in the GMC (don't care for the Chev 'Avalanche' look and I sure aint paying extra for it)....They ran a search and found ONE in ARKANSAS, prepaid order...... I don't think the Allison is 'that' cool.

 

[Caleb]

Mine's an 02 2500. Ditto on the warranty, NOBODY covers commercial vehicles. I'm getting about 12-15K out of a set of Dodge pads. About half the time though, when the pads fail the rotor gets wasted before I can get pads on it. (seems like the pads always fail near Rock Springs)

that sucks its a problem on the newer ones too, the ones we had we would run for 10-15K miles then turn them in for another new one...but we were towing prolly 95% of those miles...

 

[yellowbronco]

Boy, not much left unsaid here I don't think I have anything to input.

 

[Meat_]

I have a '98 Dodge dualie 24v Auto QC 80k miles I've owned it for a shade over 3 years (30k of those miles). The transfer pump was bad from the factory (almost all of them were in '98) and the tps was bad when I bought it, both were changed under warranty. Other than that the only problem I have with it is a little brass ball valve that keeps pressure on the injector pump for starting (sometimes it doesn't, $40 part 20 min labor)

I haven't pulled anything too crazy with it, but I'm sure the guy I got it from did.... it's stock with the original trans which (knock on wood) is fine. I have a lead foot and still average 15mpg (before bigger tires, haven't checked since)

As for brakes, if I hop in it after driving anything else I tend to bounce my head off the windshield. You can COUNT on putting pads on every 10k to 15k, but for the 30 minutes it takes and the lifetime brakes from AutoZone who cares. I'm still on my original shoes, the thing to remember with the drum brakes on these is that the self adjusters don't, you have to adjust them every 10k or so.

Heat is the killer of auto's. After I put a gauge in I noticed something very odd, my trans gets it's hottest sitting at a stop light..... I can head out with 6k ~ 8k in tow on the freeway for 60 miles at 75mph and it'll never go above 100, yet 1 minute sitting at a light and it reaches the same temp as the motor... my guess is that the radiator is bringing the oil up to the same temp as the water while sitting still.

 

[Caleb]

my guess is that the radiator is bringing the oil up to the same temp as the water while sitting still.

thats exactly what is happening, and that is also the exact reason TCI and many other tranny company's suggest not using the stock (or any) tranny cooler that is integrated into the radiator. They all suggest using an external cooler...