TRUMP: Whats the real deal?

[pELYgroso]

I don't like Trump as a person, but think he's doing decent as a president. Yes, he lies. So did every other president. He is WAY more outspoken than any other president and WAY less tactful than any that I can remember, but the economy is good, unemployment is down, fuel is cheap, and while the peons of the world may be laughing at this "buffoon" in the white house, I feel like the leadership of the world has a respect for him. Or maybe a fear of what he can do if anybody messes with the USA.....either way, the last president had neither (IMO) so this is a step in the right direction. I like that he doesn't care what the eff the media says about him. He is going to do what he thinks is best, not what will look best to the media.

I say build a wall -to start. Other countries have big fences/walls for a reason, and our immigration problem is out of control, so I think it will help. Yes, there will be tunnels built to accommodate small amounts of people, and yes, some will still find a way in, but way less. Having said that, a reform of our immigration system is also in order. My opinion is to fix what is here before we let the problem get larger. Close the borders while we come up with a system such as what was mentioned in this thread. Implement it and get the millions of illegals that are already here to "sign-up." Then let more in as we're able to accommodate them with work. I am mostly against hand-outs just because you stepped foot in our country and won't work and have some kids. I know A LOT of illegals here, all very hard working people (the ones I know), and they are in favor of a wall and more strict policies that will benefit those who want to come and work hard (easier to get citizenship for those who prove their worth) and harshly discourage those who want to come be criminals or leech off the system.

I find it funny that so many of these immigrants that are at the border now are protesting, marching with signs, and putting on this big show for the media. These people seem more like political activists than immigrants to me.

 

[Homefryy]

https://vault.fbi.gov/fbi-communica...ny-weiners-laptop-computer-part-01-of-01/view

The rabbit hole goes deep.

What is the significance of this? It appears that this memo was written as soon as an FBI agent discovered that there were emails on Weiner's computer related to Hillary while he was investigating something unrelated. That FBI agent did not have a warrant to look at those in more detail which is what the memo states. Based on that discovery the FBI re-opened the investigation into Hillary's emails and Comey informed republicans in Congress that the investigation was re-opened then those congressman leaked that info to the public. This was very close to the election and even though they didn't find anything to charge her with it was very damaging to Hillary.

You seem to be implying that this somehow relates to something anti Trump when it was majorly beneficial to him and incredibly damaging to Hillary. Prior to the election Hillary was under investigation for improper use of an email server and Trump's campaign was under investigation for conspiring with a foreign government yet we only heard about 1 of those. Somehow the FBI gets portrayed as anti-Trump when everything that was done at the time heavily favored him.

 

[Herzog]

What is the significance of this?

I posted it as a "tip of the iceberg" type thing.

Officials in NYPD did end up looking most, if not all of the emails and files. What they found rattled them hard. The investigation was blockaded almost immediately after. Why?

We got word of the server investigation because some of the emails were put out on wikileaks by a DNC leaker. You will say "russian hackers put the emails there", which is not true. The source came from the DNC and the transfer happend at (paraphrased) 'usb transfer rate speeds of the source computer to a removable device'. And actually, the investigation "for conspiring with a foreign government" into Trump didn't happen until after he was President Elect. What was happening before that was an illegal drag net on him and the campaign.

 

[ID Bronco]

Less government regulation (mostly through agencies who answer to nearly no one)
More access to areas of our country. (Bears Ear example)
No more apologizing for being exceptional.
Honoring and supporting our military far beyond the previous admin.
Common sense to the environmental and climate change insanity. (exiting the Paris climate agreement)
Scores of non (or at least less) liberal leaning judges both on a district level and to the Supreme Court.

Yea, I guess you could say he's done a few good things in my book.

He's not perfect, far from it. I believe the spotlight on every action he ever takes exacerbates his faults and we were used to the opposite for 8 years previously. (the Clintons and Obama's are seriously crooked too, the media just wouldn't tell you about it)

I am not a tariff fan, far from it.

to the original post that Jeeper put up: I believe he has reversed or at least attacked many long standing, systemic policies that the Liberals never thought they would have to worry about again. I like that.

I often think I can learn a lot about what someone is doing by who their critics are and how ruthlessly they attack.

 

[Herzog]

I'm split on the whole wall thing. There's a lot of human trafficking issues happening at the border. More than is ever reported. But I also agree that most immigrants are looking for a better life... I'd wish that they would go through the process to come in legally but we all know that's not going to happen.

The caravan... hahaha. Political stunt. A group that large of 99% men with many of them waving their home country flags are not looking for asylum. Get over it.

Thing is, the wall is actually already being built and will be completed by military funding under the order of nat sec. Watch it happen.

 

[Herzog]

I am not a tariff fan, far from it.

Nobody is. Which is why he uses it as a negotiation tactic. He's a master negotiator and that's why he's doing so well.

 

[Jesser04]

Ding, ding! You don't fire up your xenophobic base if you say you want to help "others", though. That makes you a bleeding heart liberal!
99% of these people are trying to better their lives and the lives of their families. If you were in their situation, you'd probably want that too. And the reality is, they want to be here and they want to work. Are they stealing jobs? Not really. And the solution to that argument has nothing to do with the immigrants themselves, but rather the people employing them. As has been said before, if the employers where held accountable and forced to pay an actual wage, then "American's" would be willing to work these jobs again. But when you can get away with paying an illegal immigrant a fraction of what the work should "actually" cost, why wouldn't you?

A wall is pointless. What needs to happen is a comprehensive rewrite of our immigration laws and better enforcement of those laws.

I was on board till the 99% part. I don’t even think that is statistically possible you put 100 people in a room I don’t care what color or nationality they are atleast 5-10 of those bastards are up to no good. The wage argument is imho nonsense. I take it you are an employee not an employer you don’t get to decide on how much you pay someone by the color of their skin you pay them what the job is worth. The real problem is this country use to be about hard work and dedication those days are over it’s about instant gratification and entitlement.

 

[Jesser04]

What is an actual wage and what lifestyle does it support? Let’s pick the under paid illegal immigrant working at the local Burger King for arguments sake. @Stephen

 

[Stephen]

I was on board till the 99% part.

That's called a "generalization". Take it to mean "the majority".

What is an actual wage and what lifestyle does it support? Let’s pick the under paid illegal immigrant working at the local Burger King for arguments sake. @Stephen

Ok, make your argument.

 

[pELYgroso]

@Stephen What do you mean by "forced to pay an actual wage?" I'm curious what your examples are.

And on the tail end of that, are you willing to pay, let's say, 10-20% more in monthly expenses (just an example) without a raise in salary to accommodate pay raises for these less desired job positions? If employers of janitors and hotel staff and food industry and construction workers are forced to pay higher wages, guess what? prices of things go up. And then these people who just got a higher wage are also paying more for everything as well as you and I.

How did society get by back in the pre-computer day when a much higher percentage of jobs were industry jobs? When "Americans" were actually doing all of these less desirable jobs that didn't pay much? If you look at the older neighborhoods, you'll see. Houses were smaller, 2 cars was a luxury and more than 2 was nearly unheard of. People were happy with less and content with working hard to make enough for just a house, car, and food on the table. Nowadays, good luck finding a new house under 2500 sq. ft. and $300k.

IMO, it's not a wage problem. It's a society problem. Us Americans want it all. Many of these immigrants just want enough. I feel that they should all have to go through a process and be held responsible for their impact on this country that is letting them in. Felony? See ya. Government $$ assistance? Only if you're also working and "trying" to not just leech off other taxpayers. For now, build the wall to slow the flow, and at the same time, work out a new system to get the hard workers some documentation to stay as long as they are contributing positively to society.

My .02.

 

[DAA]

I think the President gets far too much credit when things go good and far too much blame when things go bad. Any President.

During the election, I thought Trump was a piece of shit, as a human being. Since the election, I no longer think that, I KNOW that. He's a complete dumpster fire, as far as being a moral, ethical, worthwhile human being. I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire.

Thank GAWD he won though. A zillion times better than Hillary. I'm glad he's president.

So having said that, I'm glad, a total piece of shit of a human being, someone I have zero respect for as a man, I'm glad he won...

Whether I vote for him or not in '20, depends first on whether he survives to even run in '20, and then on who the other choices are. I'm glad he won. I like some, but certainly not all of what he has tried to do. But I still think he's just a total scum bag and I'd love to have a better option.

- DAA

 

[ID Bronco]

I think we are seeing a classic example of a business owner and employee mentality conflict here. Economics are what they are......Pelygroso gave us a pretty fair representation of how it really works.

 

[Herzog]

I think the President gets far too much credit when things go good and far too much blame when things go bad. Any President.

During the election, I thought Trump was a piece of shit, as a human being. Since the election, I no longer think that, I KNOW that. He's a complete dumpster fire, as far as being a moral, ethical, worthwhile human being. I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire.

Thank GAWD he won though. A zillion times better than Hillary. I'm glad he's president.

So having said that, I'm glad, a total piece of shit of a human being, someone I have zero respect for as a man, I'm glad he won...

Whether I vote for him or not in '20, depends first on whether he survives to even run in '20, and then on who the other choices are. I'm glad he won. I like some, but certainly not all of what he has tried to do. But I still think he's just a total scum bag and I'd love to have a better option.

- DAA

I felt the same way after the election. Didn't care for him one bit... BUT THANK GOD for NOT hillary.

Now I'm convinced that he's actually a hell of a human. Time will tell... if I end up being wrong, I'll be able to live with it and admit it. But I'll bet money that I'm not wrong.

 

[Stephen]

@Stephen What do you mean by "forced to pay an actual wage?" I'm curious what your examples are.

We have a federal minimum wage, and often times a state or city minimum as well. Additionally, there is also the concept of the "market rate", where a laborer is paid based on how that particular job is compensated across the industry. We can use Swift Meat Packing as an example where they were paying workers below market rates and simply dealing with the turn over by hiring illegals to fill the ranks. Those raids were 10 years ago, but I can guarantee that these sorts of practices still exist today. Now you can argue that an employer can choose to pay whatever they feel is "fair", but if you don't have the option of plugging to hole of labor leaving for better conditions with illegals willing to take any work for any pay, your business goes under.

And on the tail end of that, are you willing to pay, let's say, 10-20% more in monthly expenses (just an example) without a raise in salary to accommodate pay raises for these less desired job positions? If employers of janitors and hotel staff and food industry and construction workers are forced to pay higher wages, guess what? prices of things go up. And then these people who just got a higher wage are also paying more for everything as well as you and I.

This is basic economics. And yes, I am willing to pay that. You would see an initial shock to the system, but eventually wages and costs would reach an equilibrium.

How did society get by back in the pre-computer day when a much higher percentage of jobs were industry jobs? When "Americans" were actually doing all of these less desirable jobs that didn't pay much? If you look at the older neighborhoods, you'll see. Houses were smaller, 2 cars was a luxury and more than 2 was nearly unheard of. People were happy with less and content with working hard to make enough for just a house, car, and food on the table. Nowadays, good luck finding a new house under 2500 sq. ft. and $300k.

IMO, it's not a wage problem. It's a society problem. Us Americans want it all. Many of these immigrants just want enough.

I agree, we have become a society of excess. People live far beyond their means just to keep up with the Jones's and fulfill relatively pointless desires. And you're right, most illegal immigrants just want to not live in a shitty country with no prospects of bettering their existence and a high probability of dying young for a myriad of reasons we in the US cannot even fathom.

I feel that they should all have to go through a process and be held responsible for their impact on this country that is letting them in. Felony? See ya. Government $$ assistance? Only if you're also working and "trying" to not just leech off other taxpayers.

Agreed, the immigration process needs to be streamlined and better enforced. Few things boil my blood more than cities refusing to assist ICE with immigration enforcement. Inconsistent implementation of the laws is one of the biggest issues regarding immigration, I think.

For now, build the wall to slow the flow, and at the same time, work out a new system to get the hard workers some documentation to stay as long as they are contributing positively to society.

My .02.

I think the building of a physical wall is pointless. Boost the CBP's budget and ranks (or use the Guard as we are now) to actually patrol the boarder better. Use technology like drones and sensors to help in very remote areas. But yes, we need to secure the southern boarder better and force people to enter through proper channels.

 

[Spork]

We have a federal minimum wage, and often times a state or city minimum as well. Additionally, there is also the concept of the "market rate", where a laborer is paid based on how that particular job is compensated across the industry. We can use Swift Meat Packing as an example where they were paying workers below market rates and simply dealing with the turn over by hiring illegals to fill the ranks. Those raids were 10 years ago, but I can guarantee that these sorts of practices still exist today. Now you can argue that an employer can choose to pay whatever they feel is "fair", but if you don't have the option of plugging to hole of labor leaving for better conditions with illegals willing to take any work for any pay, your business goes under.
...

My brother actually works for Swift, post-raid he got a big raise to keep him coming to work. The whole supply and demand concept must not be totally false.

I'm all for build the wall, government has done dumber ideas, they spend 3 billion on cash for clunkers, sent 1.8 Billion to Iran during Obama's presidency, call this Trump's dumb idea and we're in about the same amount as those 2 dumb ideas. If it actually stops people from coming across it might actually be smart. At least with this idea the cost of used cars isn't going to go out of control again and I can find something to run in the Gambler 500 next year..

 

[frieed]

Forget the wall. Start raiding job sites that hire illegals and fine the companies 10K for each one you find. Businesses will stop looking the other way, jobs for them will dry up, and then there is no reason to come here. Just get ready for the price of about everything to go up.

 

[Cody]

Believe it or not, those illegal immigrants that are doing the hard labor jobs that most Americans feel they are above, are holding the economy up. If you get rid of them, everything will come crashing down.

I've been waiting on General Contractors to get me bids on a project for almost 2 months. The ones that I have gotten bids from were sent intentionally ridiculously high because they just don't have the time and labor to do the work, and the ones that want the work struggle to get their subs to produce realistic numbers that can be relied upon. I have friends that are masonry and electrical contractors, that would hire 50 people tomorrow if they could just to keep up with the demand in building right now, but there is nobody to hire. All of my freight expenses coming into my shop and the shipping costs going out have gone up 30-50% this year, and take 10-20% longer because there just aren't enough drivers to haul everything as fast as we expect it. If it takes 2 months to get a bid for work because there isn't enough labor available to do the work itself, then what happens to the economy if you reduce that labor force by another...say 25%? Nothing gets done. Maybe those day labor jobs have to increase salary by 50%, and that pulls people back out of trucking jobs....we just don't have enough people willing to do those jobs any more. Everyone has been pushed through college with the hope of finding higher paying white collar work (perhaps our parents WEREN'T as content as you think @pELYgroso living in small modest homes and wanted their children to have an easier go of it?), which may or not be out there (but the influx of service and technology based jobs has certainly deindustrialized our economy, pulling the labor force out of labor and into desk chairs), and after spending 4-8 years in school and how much money, the only jobs are manual labor or skill trade positions that likely pay a livable wage but certainly carry a negative stigma with them (skill trade's not so much).

I just question whether the answer is to remove the people that are "illegally" working the jobs that legal citizens aren't particularly interested in doing themselves. We need more of them to sustain the growth in our economy if you ask me.

 

[Deleted member 12904]

Believe it or not, those illegal immigrants that are doing the hard labor jobs that most Americans feel they are above, are holding the economy up. If you get rid of them, everything will come crashing down.

I've been waiting on General Contractors to get me bids on a project for almost 2 months. The ones that I have gotten bids from were sent intentionally ridiculously high because they just don't have the time and labor to do the work, and the ones that want the work struggle to get their subs to produce realistic numbers that can be relied upon. I have friends that are masonry and electrical contractors, that would hire 50 people tomorrow if they could just to keep up with the demand in building right now, but there is nobody to hire. All of my freight expenses coming into my shop and the shipping costs going out have gone up 30-50% this year, and take 10-20% longer because there just aren't enough drivers to haul everything as fast as we expect it. If it takes 2 months to get a bid for work because there isn't enough labor available to do the work itself, then what happens to the economy if you reduce that labor force by another...say 25%? Nothing gets done. Maybe those day labor jobs have to increase salary by 50%, and that pulls people back out of trucking jobs....we just don't have enough people willing to do those jobs any more. Everyone has been pushed through college with the hope of finding higher paying white collar work (perhaps our parents WEREN'T as content as you think @pELYgroso living in small modest homes and wanted their children to have an easier go of it?), which may or not be out there (but the influx of service and technology based jobs has certainly deindustrialized our economy, pulling the labor force out of labor and into desk chairs), and after spending 4-8 years in school and how much money, the only jobs are manual labor or skill trade positions that likely pay a livable wage but certainly carry a negative stigma with them (skill trade's not so much).

I just question whether the answer is to remove the people that are "illegally" working the jobs that legal citizens aren't particularly interested in doing themselves. We need more of them to sustain the growth in our economy if you ask me.

Nailed it!

In my opinion, Everyone wants to be a tech bro making $100k a year working at a place with ping pong tables and free mountain dew in the break room.

The supply and demand has shifted and skilled labor has become expensive and hard to find. On the other side decent paying tech jobs have 300-400 people applying for every position.

Illegal immigrants are not sniping the jobs Millennials are applying for. They are working the jobs companies need filled with someone that doesn't call in sick once a week and requires manual labor.

 

[frieed]

Believe it or not, those illegal immigrants that are doing the hard labor jobs that most Americans feel they are above, are holding the economy up.......

agreed, just posting up how the migration could be stopped, not whether or not it should.

 

[Noahfecks]

I absolutely disagree with any path to citizenship for anyone who has ever crossed our border illegally. There is a legal process to immigrate to this country and we allow more legal immigrants than any other nation in the world, is that not enough? We have some of, if not the most accepting, LEGAL immigration policy in the world and we account for more than our fair share of the worlds LEGAL immigrants.

I disagree that Americans won't do those jobs, get rid of the social welfare net and force people to earn their own way, get rid of the illegals who are willing to live in sh!tty 3rd world conditions, wages for those jobs will rise. Capitalism works, lets give it a try. Yes there will be a painful period while the market corrects itself but all we are doing now is kicking the can down the road and the longer we put off dealing with the problem the worse it becomes.

It's impossible to import enough immigrants to cure 3rd world poverty, it only serves to overload the life raft and eventually drowns everyone. Allowing these people to come here actually makes it worse for those that stay, why do you hate those people left behind so much? I will just leave this here because he says it so eloquently it's not worth making my own case.

I call BS that anyone who works a full time job doesn't end up financially better off under the Trump tax cuts. All I can do is laugh at people who call them tax cuts for the rich, yes the rich benefit more from a tax cut, because they pay more in taxes. Broken logic. The top 1407 taxpayers in this country pay more in taxes than the bottom 50% of tax payers, don't hate, get off your lazy ass and go get it, i think you will find they had to sacrifice more than you care to, so they can have what you don't. A factual representation of our tax system and how tax cuts work

Yes I am better off under Trump's policies, I often wish he accomplished his objective in a more tactful manner, but at the end of the day what he does works. Oh, and yes, I do have a BA in Economics, because I know someone is going to ask.