Turbocharging a non-turbo motor

[Tacoma]

I have a book here from some guy who uses turbos AS superchargers... kind of an interesting idea, but not sure how useful it really is on a v8-- apparently works ok on smaller motors.

That's an interesting idea: using a small turbo to spool up the bigger one... I'll be real curious to look at that when they're around to look at.

now, I'm off to read some more turbo stuff and try to wrap my brain around function.

 

[BBowski82]

I have a book here from some guy who uses turbos AS superchargers... kind of an interesting idea, but not sure how useful it really is on a v8-- apparently works ok on smaller motors.

That's an interesting idea: using a small turbo to spool up the bigger one... I'll be real curious to look at that when they're around to look at.

now, I'm off to read some more turbo stuff and try to wrap my brain around function.

The 4.5L is only going to be used in the LCF (low-cab forward) trucks....I could probably snap a few pics at work on Monday and post em up if you are really interested. B

edit---I mean to post that the 4.5L was going to be put in the F150/Expedition chassis but customer population studies found that customers felt it was too loud----Damn customers

 

[Greg]

I understand what you are saying, and yes you are correct. Running too small of a turbo on an engine is like sucking the air for a big block through a straw....this is why guys run dual turbo setups. For instance, Ford's new 4.5L V6 deisel uses a dual turbo setup with a smaller turbo spooling a larger turbo. Old heavy duties used turbos to feed superchargers....

The new BMW turbo diesel has the same setup... supposed to be a real ballsy motor.

 

[Greg]

I have a book here from some guy who uses turbos AS superchargers... kind of an interesting idea, but not sure how useful it really is on a v8-- apparently works ok on smaller motors.

One of my friends was working on something like this... he was using a huge turbo from a semi, making it belt driven & was going to run it on a SBC. Except he couldn't figure out where to put the turbo! AFAIK, it didn't get any further than that. :-\

 

[Greg]

edit---I mean to post that the 4.5L was going to be put in the F150/Expedition chassis but customer population studies found that customers felt it was too loud----Damn customers

How lame... the US needs to get their act together and start putting TD's in passenger vehicles other than full size pickups.

 

[BBowski82]

How lame... the US needs to get their act together and start putting TD's in passenger vehicles other than full size pickups.

Tell that to the f'n EPA!

 

[BBowski82]

The Cummins as we know it, may be history next year...

 

[Greg]

The Cummins as we know it, may be history next year...

Really? Didn't Ford recently buy the rights to have the Cummins as an option in their trucks? :-\

What do you mean by history, like... no more, or a weaker version?

 

[BBowski82]

No more....or heavily redesigned to meet emissions standards. Ford just owns a large portion of Cummins stock (30% or something...)

 

[Tacoma]

http://www.gatorsuperchargers.net/photos/photos.htm

These are the fellers I was talking about... links at the bottom of the page. Interesting stuff, I'm on the fence regarding usefulness for my purposes.

anyway, check it out, gets one thinking about things one way or the other LOL

 

[PierCed_3]

You should PM BigBadBurb. They did just this on a 4cyl YJ. I am not sure what they used for the turbo... I think it was a 4 cyl Mustang with a turbo on it. He would have some killer advice for you.

 

[BBowski82]

You should PM BigBadBurb. They did just this on a 4cyl YJ. I am not sure what they used for the turbo... I think it was a 4 cyl Mustang with a turbo on it. He would have some killer advice for you.

prolly a 2.3L turbo

 

[dunatic67]

I think turbos work more... efficently?

The cool part of a Turbo is it automatically adjusts for altitude because it is being driven by exhaust, where a supercharger must have different pulleys to drive it to maintain/take away from its boost.

My friends who run turbo's on sand rails always say: "there is no such thing as altitude to a turbo"
One of my friends runs a 3.8 Buick turbo off a 83? Grand National on a 300" Buick. It has excellent boost off idle but (as has been discussed) looses a bit on the top end. Sure works cool for bottom end boost- it comes on about 800 RPM's.

 

[Greg]

I think turbos work more... efficently?

The cool part of a Turbo is it automatically adjusts for altitude because it is being driven by exhaust, where a supercharger must have different pulleys to drive it to maintain/take away from its boost.

My friends who run turbo's on sand rails always say: "there is no such thing as altitude to a turbo"
One of my friends runs a 3.8 Buick turbo off a 83? Grand National on a 300" Buick. It has excellent boost off idle but (as has been discussed) looses a bit on the top end. Sure works cool for bottom end boost- it comes on about 800 RPM's.

Thanks for explaining it... I knew what I was trying to say, but couldn't get it out.

 

[Greg]

You should PM BigBadBurb. They did just this on a 4cyl YJ. I am not sure what they used for the turbo... I think it was a 4 cyl Mustang with a turbo on it. He would have some killer advice for you.

I just might! If it was a 2.3, then they are pretty easy since some of them were turbocharged from the factory.

BTW... those are killer motors. One of my friends had a '84 SVO 2.3 turbo Mustang... 28 pounds of boost (on a stock engine!!) & a 75hp shot of NOS. It would beat a twin-turbo Supra without using the NOS.

 

[cheapzuk]

To run a turbo on a stock motor you are limited to about 7-8 psi if you use an intercooler. To run much more than that you will need a timing retard system. For fuel control I would run a boost controled fruel presssure regualtor. If you put larger injectors in than you will have too much fuel pooring in at idle.

Here is a link that shows some different ways to control fuel.
http://www.turbocalculator.com/sale-fuel.php

I would try to stay away from using hyperuetic pistins because if you get into detonation than those pistons will shatter very easily.

Another place for some good information on forced induction is the bullitin board on www.ford-trucks.com

 

[TurboMinivan]

I'm with cheapzuk: if you stay in single digit boost and consider a good intercooler mandatory, you ought to be fine at your current compression ratio (assuming it's at or under 9.0:1). Further, a boost-referenced fuel pressure regulator--which is made for people doing exactly what you're planning--will make proper fueling a lot easier than you think.

Proper planning calls for proper research. A great reference is the book Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. The entire purpose of this book is to illustrate what you'll need to do to turbocharge a n/a engine. It's easily worth the $35 you'll pay for it.

Oh, BTW: I'm new here, and this is (obviously) my first post. As my screen name might lead you to believe, I'm a big fan of turbocharging.

 

[Greg]

I'm with cheapzuk: if you stay in single digit boost and consider a good intercooler mandatory, you ought to be fine at your current compression ratio (assuming it's at or under 9.0:1). Further, a boost-referenced fuel pressure regulator--which is made for people doing exactly what you're planning--will make proper fueling a lot easier than you think.

Proper planning calls for proper research. A great reference is the book Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. The entire purpose of this book is to illustrate what you'll need to do to turbocharge a n/a engine. It's easily worth the $35 you'll pay for it.

Oh, BTW: I'm new here, and this is (obviously) my first post. As my screen name might lead you to believe, I'm a big fan of turbocharging.

Good to have you here! Thanks for the info, yours & CheapZuks. I do appreciate it, being that I'm turbo-dumb. What you both have said makes sence, I'll have to look into it further if i ever decide to actually do this.

I checked out your site, pretty neat! Is the engine in the minivan the same one as the Dodge Daytona & Omni? Those are pretty quick cars! It would be funny to see a minivan smoke a sports car!

 

[TurboMinivan]

Good to have you here! Thanks for the info, yours & CheapZuks. I do appreciate it, being that I'm turbo-dumb.

I appreciate your welcome, but you're far from turbo-dumb, as evidenced by your desire for a mild overlap camshaft. (Although, truth be told, it's less of an issue at low boost. At my slightly more moderate boost level of 24 psi, it becomes more important.)

Is the engine in the minivan the same one as the Dodge Daytona & Omni?

Essentially, yes. My van has a 2.5 liter, which is just a stroker 2.2 liter. The same rods are used in both engines; it's just a unique crank and squished slugs.

It would be funny to see a minivan smoke a sports car!

Yes, the crowd at RMR loves seeing a big fat FWD four cylinder minivan make 13-second passes.

Back to the topic at hand, turbocharging is a great way to makes lots of delicious torque... and it can be completely flexible, too. Once you get to that point, I can share info on how to make a simple two-stage boost setup which you control from the cockpit. You don't have to spend hundreds on fancy Japanese gizmos; I make this stuff out of scrap parts lying around my garage. Really. (I'm all about low buck performance.)

For that matter, I built a custom vacuum circuit of sorts for my friend's '93 YJ front axle disconnect. He still moves his t-case lever to select 4WD and hi or lo range, but the front end doesn't come online until he flips the supplemental toggle switch. He loves it because (a) now he has 2WD LO when desired, (b) he no longer melts through the nylon vacuum lines which used to run into and out of his t-case and (c) I built the thing out of two spare solenoids and some scrap vacuum lines. But, hey--these concepts may be old hat around here. If they are, well, please forgive me. Like I said, I'm new here.

 

[cheapzuk]

Proper planning calls for proper research. A great reference is the book Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. The entire purpose of this book is to illustrate what you'll need to do to turbocharge a n/a engine. It's easily worth the $35 you'll pay for it.


Definatly a good book. I read it and was well educated.