User Conflicts

[EZRhino]

Topic of the week:

User Conflicts.

I'd like to hear about conflicts you have had on (or off) the trail with other people, related to your rig of choice. It could be other motorized users, pedestrians, ATV'ers, etc. Or even with other 4x4 users.

When the FS and BLM revise their management plans, they always state "user conflicts" as some kind of reason to close/reduce motorized trails. I am curious if there really are conflicts and what type they are.

I do not wish to create a **** list here, or point fingers/name names. I am just curious what kinds of conflicts exist.

 

[BBowski82]

Topic of the week:

User Conflicts.

I'd like to hear about conflicts you have had on (or off) the trail with other people, related to your rig of choice. It could be other motorized users, pedestrians, ATV'ers, etc. Or even with other 4x4 users.

When the FS and BLM revise their management plans, they always state "user conflicts" as some kind of reason to close/reduce motorized trails. I am curious if there really are conflicts and what type they are.

I do not wish to create a **** list here, or point fingers/name names. I am just curious what kinds of conflicts exist.

When I was going to Weber, Spencurai and I went snow wheeling up by Logan (not exactly sure where we were). And we got the third-degree from a group of snow wheelers (and almost into a fist-fight) because they thought that we were "messing up their snow-mobiling roads". We weren't even on a snow-mobiling trail....just the snow covered dirt road!

 

[spencurai]

that one was interesting for sure, we were on the road that leads to willard peak, I am not sure the exact name of the road but that is basically where we were. I was pissed because it was a snow covered dirt road frequented by station wagons during summer months and they were pissed because we were using it for its intended purpose.

Another time, I was in moab in the bartlett wash area on some previously open BLM land when a MT biker blocked our trail leader's way with his bike and body. The Mt biker claimed we were on "biker only" property when it was clearly open. HE went down and got one of those BLM officers in their locked and loaded wranglers who came up and layed the smack down on the bikers. The problem was solved because the biker had his head up his ass but it didn't help that we were all out of our rigs yelling at him to get the hell out of the way.

 

[PierCed_3]

I have also had the same problem while wheeling up to Willard Peak during winter. Snowmobilers are very protective of the area. I have also during summer months almost run over a few 4 Wheelers because they were driving like maniacs. Never had a problem with bikers but those snowmobilers up there in Mantua are very protective of that road. It's still just a road, not a trail.

 

[BBowski82]

that one was interesting for sure, we were on the road that leads to willard peak, I am not sure the exact name of the road but that is basically where we were. I was pissed because it was a snow covered dirt road frequented by station wagons during summer months and they were pissed because we were using it for its intended purpose.

Remember that guy too??? He was an old crotchety bastid and when we hopped out of the jeeps he must of been like 'oh sh!t'.....

 

[spencurai]

we shoulda pulled his pants down and stuck a fork in his neck then left.

 

[Webby]

I generally don't have many problems since I do all the actives I see it from all points of view and I'm also very bitchy (almost psycho) when confronted by buttheads.

One time a snowmobiler was piss’en and moan’en about me using a snow covered road. Not a trail, or even dirt ... a road. I told him to get on his machine and I'll get in my truck we'll do a head to head and who ever wins gets the road. He didn't like that idea.

We were on Porcupine Rim Trail (what a nightmare) and their where bikes everywhere. We was going down a couple small steps and a guy in a Spiderman suit on a bike tried to pass us on the driver's side. Well the truck slide his way and he ended up being pushed into a tree. We stopped to see if he was ok, and he was. He proclaimed it was his fault and then went on his way.

When I mountain bike in Moab, or anywhere else, I stay out of vehicles ways. It's just plain easier for me to stop or go around then it is for them. Besides they are bigger

No matter what I do I just try to avoid the crowd because there is always one person that thinks they know everything and their way is the only way.

 

[Todd Adams]

My take on the “User Conflict” that the BLM uses is solely derived from wilderness advocacy groups like SUWA. The BLM is taking their word that there is a problem. In my experience the problem is overstated by these WAG’s and the BLM is taking the WAG view at face value.
About the only time I have ever experienced conflict is from other wheelers. Most notable at EJS but that is another issue and I doubt those kinds of conflicts are ever reported to the BLM since the ones I have had the issues with hate the BLM and government more than the RR4W’s taking over “Their” trail for a few days around Easter.
I have been personally thanked by every user group at one time or another including equestrians, while using the tread lightly principles. That is to give others the right of way and to shut my engine off while horses pass. If we all followed Tread Lightly like I think most of us do then there would be no “User Conflict” other than what is trumped up by the WAG’s.



http://www.treadlightly.org/readedu.mv?edu=3D347A75000431C600004E2A00000000

This is good information if you follow the link.

Todd

 

[ace]

We were at Potatoe Salad Hill and the kids were playing down by the river. My 10 year old son was moving a branch on a shrub aside to look at a lizard, when a middle aged, dog walking, maggot infestested, unwashed, greenie chick started screaming from the other side of the stream. "Leave the plants alone man." Not wanting to get into a fight with someone who obviously consumes more soy protien than myself, called the kids back by the car and waved her away.

 

[Todd Adams]

We were at Potatoe Salad Hill and the kids were playing down by the river. My 10 year old son was moving a branch on a shrub aside to look at a lizard, when a middle aged, dog walking, maggot infestested, unwashed, greenie chick started screaming from the other side of the stream. "Leave the plants alone man." Not wanting to get into a fight with someone who obviously consumes more soy protien than myself, called the kids back by the car and waved her away.

That is funny! I would not call that a "User Conflict" especially where it happened but more of a "nut case run in". Reminds me of the story I have on good authority about the BLM ranger (keep in mind that this gal out of the **** district office is about as green as they come) who was leading a group of scouts on a field trip. She required the boys to piss into zip lock Baggies that she provided and carry them out for disposal.

Names and placed have been left out to protect the innocent. (Me)

 

[Hickey]

That is funny! I would not call that a "User Conflict" especially where it happened but more of a "nut case run in". Reminds me of the story I have on good authority about the BLM ranger (keep in mind that this gal out of the **** district office is about as green as they come) who was leading a group of scouts on a field trip. She required the boys to piss into zip lock Baggies that she provided and carry them out for disposal.

Names and placed have been left out to protect the innocent. (Me)

Good grief. I would have peed on her. That might have ended up being a user conflict though. I can honestly say I have never had any conflicts... on the trails... Freakin pee in a bag. Do the deer have to pee in a bag too?

 

[EZRhino]

Good responses guys! The two I can think of that involve me firsthand are:

1) The time I gave some crap to some people on this forum for something theydid on the trail the day before; Kinda stupid of me really.

2) The time I was going too fast and almost ran over a guy walking his dog (who was standing in the middle of the road on a blind corner, in fairness to me).

I learned from both incidences. :-0

Oh, and this wasn't a conflict but it could have been. A person we all know at Little Moab drinking heavily and driving like a insane jackass, recklessley endangering other bystanders and wheelers. I got scared and left.

EZ

 

[Badcop]

On a trail repair run un Ruby Lake trail in AK, my self and some good friends had been taking progress pics while we were there. Keith had set his camera down to make it easier to dig. A couple of ATV users came up to the area we were repairing, grabbed the camera and ran. My being the good little armed person I was, jumped in the TJ and chased em down. About 3/4 of the way down the trail I was able to make contact with them. I asked nicely the first time if they had it or had seen it. Answer of course was NO. I kicked my door open and turned towards with my manipulator in my lap (aka Sig .45). This time when I asked (after introducing myself) he was less reluctant to to deny my buddies camera.

 

[81Ramchargerman]

I have also had the same problem while wheeling up to Willard Peak during winter. Snowmobilers are very protective of the area. I have also during summer months almost run over a few 4 Wheelers because they were driving like maniacs. Never had a problem with bikers but those snowmobilers up there in Mantua are very protective of that road. It's still just a road, not a trail.

Is it one that is designated to snowmobiling? Because I know over here that even though many of the road are open to wheeling during the summer, they are strictly for sleddin during the winter. Most of them have gates, or it is just understood.

 

[81Ramchargerman]

On a trail repair run un Ruby Lake trail in AK, my self and some good friends had been taking progress pics while we were there. Keith had set his camera down to make it easier to dig. A couple of ATV users came up to the area we were repairing, grabbed the camera and ran. My being the good little armed person I was, jumped in the TJ and chased em down. About 3/4 of the way down the trail I was able to make contact with them. I asked nicely the first time if they had it or had seen it. Answer of course was NO. I kicked my door open and turned towards with my manipulator in my lap (aka Sig .45). This time when I asked (after introducing myself) he was less reluctant to to deny my buddies camera.

LOL I bet he was about to **** in his pants!!! What makes people think they have the right to do stuff like that? :-\

 

[PierCed_3]

Is it one that is designated to snowmobiling? Because I know over here that even though many of the road are open to wheeling during the summer, they are strictly for sleddin during the winter. Most of them have gates, or it is just understood.

It is the road going up to Willard Peak. During the winter season when it is unpassable by vehicles it is used primarily for snowmobiling but once the snow barrier melts it's open game. I do know that when the snowplows plow the roads they pile it in a huge pile at the beginning of the dirt road. I am sure it is to keep the big motorized vehicles out but I have never heard that it is designated for snowmobiling.

I should probably ask around about that one. :-\

 

[PierCed_3]

On a trail repair run un Ruby Lake trail in AK, my self and some good friends had been taking progress pics while we were there. Keith had set his camera down to make it easier to dig. A couple of ATV users came up to the area we were repairing, grabbed the camera and ran. My being the good little armed person I was, jumped in the TJ and chased em down. About 3/4 of the way down the trail I was able to make contact with them. I asked nicely the first time if they had it or had seen it. Answer of course was NO. I kicked my door open and turned towards with my manipulator in my lap (aka Sig .45). This time when I asked (after introducing myself) he was less reluctant to to deny my buddies camera.

Let me introduce you to my LITTLE friend.... Where's my F'n camera!

 

[81Ramchargerman]

Yeah, Pierced, I know that one of the main trail systems up here doesn't have a gate, or even snow piled at the beginning... but that is private land too (at the beginning anyways). I know that it ticks me off to no end when the four wheelers go up there and cause all those ruts, let alone a huge truck, I think it's more of a common courtesy not to ruin their trails than anything else. Besides, it's really unsafe, I know the people in the trucks usually don't care but they aren't the ones who are gonna get hurt. If a sled is cruisin down the trail at 70-90 mph and comes around a corner, that's probably about it, there's usually not much place to go, especially when a trucks on the trail because they are gonna take up the whole trail. If they are riding during the spring and everything is melting and the trucks should probably be up there then that's different. But I would think that even right now, they probably shouldn't be driving on the trail. (truck)

 

[PierCed_3]

Yeah, Pierced, I know that one of the main trail systems up here doesn't have a gate, or even snow piled at the beginning... but that is private land too (at the beginning anyways). I know that it ticks me off to no end when the four wheelers go up there and cause all those ruts, let alone a huge truck, I think it's more of a common courtesy not to ruin their trails than anything else. Besides, it's really unsafe, I know the people in the trucks usually don't care but they aren't the ones who are gonna get hurt. If a sled is cruisin down the trail at 70-90 mph and comes around a corner, that's probably about it, there's usually not much place to go, especially when a trucks on the trail because they are gonna take up the whole trail. If they are riding during the spring and everything is melting and the trucks should probably be up there then that's different. But I would think that even right now, they probably shouldn't be driving on the trail. (truck)

I have to agree with that. As a matter of fact I have pulled out a few people from that exact trail last week. I went for a test run up the mountain so I could see if my Jeep was running A-OK and I came across a 1/2 ton Ford Pickup in the middle of the trail. I assumed the guy was out of gas so I just went around him. I was going up the trail and just had a feeling to turn around. When I turned around and came down I noticed that the truck was now sideways in the middle of the trail.

A kid in a Jeep Grand Cherokee had driven on top of the snow late at night and got stuck (sunk in snow) in the middle of no where. The guy in the Ford truck was trying to get him out and he got stock WAY before he could get to the Jeep. I hooked the winch to the Ford and pulled him out. That's when he informed me of his buddy that was stuck WAYYY off the trail. I drove out to him and hooked the winch to him and pulled him out. Bad thing was he left his Jeep there overnight and when the snow got soft his Jeep sunk up to the body panels. I ended up pulling him out in reverse and I still don't know how he got out that far. The top layer of snow must of had one helluva coat of ice over it. There were no tracks leading to where he was. Funny thing is that on the way down the Ford got stuck again. Freakin FORD'S! I'm gonna call my winch the "Ford Extractor".

I pulled a Ford out on that trail on Mon also.

Maybe that's how I could make some money on the side! Start a "Jeep Rescue" business. :greg:

Andrew

 

[PierCed_3]

Sorry for the Hijack EZ...

Hijack [/OFF]