Utah to the new PAC 12!

Cody

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Location
Gastown
While it seems to good from a financial standpoint, this is not a good move from a competition standpoint. The reality is Utah is going to struggle playing in the Pac 12. Utah is not going to be able to greatly improve there recruiting because it is after all Utah and it does not have the appeal of other climates. Utah won't even cut into BYU's recruiting because BYU and Utah recruit different athletes and there is very little cross over.

Congrats to all Ute fans, but don't be disappointed when your annual bowl game is playing BYU because you have a losing record, or even better yet actually playing BYU in a bowl game, that would be exciting. I fully expect BYU to join the Big 12 in the next few years but I wish they would just stay in the MWC because the MWC will get its auto bid and I like the close proximity of the MWC.

You have three degrees and are working on a doctorate?

but don't be disappointed when your annual bowl game is playing BYU because you have a losing record, or even better yet actually playing BYU in a bowl game

Umm, what?

Outside of that hodgepodge of English, some of your points are valid while others seem to disregard statistical relevance and logic. Obviously the Pac-10 looked at more than just athletics when considering expansion schools. Utah is liberal and prominent research institution with elite athletic facilities and no religious affiliation. BYU has the facilities, but otherwise doesn't fit the mold. BYU is a strong school in it's own right and in it's own way, but not in the way of the other Pac-10 schools. Nothing wrong with that. The Big 10/12 is a better fit for them, and I for one hope they get there.

However, disregarding the recent success of Utah's football program as having little to nothing to do with the Pac-10 invite is nothing short of ignorant. Previous to 2003, where was Utah on the national radar? I'll answer my own rhetorical question, nowhere. What team in the Pac-10, outside of USC, has had the same success as Utah in recent years? Plain and simple, football drives college athletics. It's the sport that pays for all of the scholarships for all of the other athletes, and it's the sport that pays for the new athletic facilities when they are built. It's the only sport that generates revenue (unless you're one of the elite few basketball programs like Duke, UNC, etc). Where was the consideration for college basketball when the 16 team super-conferences were being discussed?

Utah has an okay tradition in football but it is still the #43 program out of 120 programs according to ESPN and that is nothing to brag about.

BYU is 25th in that same list, and more than half of their score is from the 1980's when they were indeed a very powerful program. Quantitatively, if you were to give them the same score for the 80's as they had in the 90's or 2000's, their rank would be right with Utah's. I realize that's a bad argument because you could just as easily take Utah's last 10 years out.....but still ;)

While we're on historical rankings, how about the next most significant college sport--basketball. Utah is ranked 18th out of 330 all time. BYU (rather surprisingly) is ranked 41st. Utah's basketball program has struggled in recent years, but playing against UCLA/Stanford/ASU/AU and other basketball powerhouses will help recruiting and hopefully help build the program back to where it was when Majerus was there.

I can't find a historical rank for gymnastics, but the Ute's would have to be top five there. They have what, eight national championships?

Sure, over time Utah will have a more difficult time in the Pac-12 than the MWC. But, what will rank higher--a Pac-12 school at 11-1 or 10-2 or a MWC school at 11-1 or 12-0? While the bottom half of the Pac-10 would typically run all over the bottom half of the MWC (SDSU--fantastic climate for recruiting BTW ;) ), is the top tier that much better? USC has obviously been really good (and apparently too good to be true), but do you think 1-4 of the Pac-10 is any better than BYU/Utah/TCU/BSU? I doubt it. Utah will have less easy games, but they won't have any more really tough games. Also, with USC down for the foreseeable future, who is that frightening in the Pac-10 right now?

Utah takes it's BCS success with them, so when it comes to determine AQ conferences the MWC won't have that success to help them. Hopefully BYU/TCU/BSU will continue to have success and continue to put pressure to get rid of the silly BCS formulas.

Obviously I hate BYU. Scratch that, I respect BYU as an institution of higher learning and for their athletic success. I HATE BYU fans. When they have success it's not a sense of pride in themselves, it's a sense of "look at what we did and you didn't". They never let anything go (continue to bring up 30 year old football dominance), and they would rather rub Utah's face in their failure than have any success of their own. It's pathetic.
 

spencevans

Overlander
Location
Farmington
The reason I believe Utah was going to the PAC 12 irregardless of there recent football success has to do with the PAC 12's selection of Colorado. The PAC 12 did not even hesitate to invite CU despite having serious issues with there athletic program. The PAC 12 loves Utah and Colorado irregardless of what they do on the field, but what they do in the classroom. I admire the PAC 12 for having such stong academic values and I wish other BCS conferences were the same way.

By me saying the PAC 12 took Utah for academic purposes does not discount the sucess Utah has had on the field. I just means they are having excellent success in the classroom and labs, which is great.

And yes, I did take the long way through school and went back and picked up a second bachelors in Communicative Disorders while my Masters in Exercise Science. But it was not a big deal, it only took me 3 semesters to get my second bachelors so I could pursue the Doctorate in Audiology which is my dream job. I decided to make the change because the economy took a poop and there is more job security in Audiology, but that a whole new discussion.

And I do agree with Rugged H2, Bountiful is the Slums. I rescued my wife from the Slums just off of 1800S. in Bountiful about 10 years ago. Good thing I did, because it has really gone down hill lately. If you can't tell I am being sassy, I actually really like the east side of Bountiful and my in-laws have a nice place there, not to mention the nieghbors are great. My brother also married a Bountiful girl and she's a sweatheart.



So to get back on topic and answer Cody's question, "who scares me in the PAC 12" Four to Five teams are going to be really good this upcoming year. Washington will be a very good team and Locker will be a top 5 pick next year. BYU will have their hands full with UW this year. Stanford will also be very good as long as Luck is running the show. While USC has been hit with sanctions they still have some really good players and a top 5 recruiting class and never count out the Oregon schools. But my wild card in the PAC 12 is UCLA. I think highly of Norm Chow, he has been successful no matter where he coaches.

This upcoming football season will be fun to watch. Boise State is returning 21 of 22 starters and in my opinion are the favorite to take it all. Alabama has no chance to go undefeated because there last 6 opponents all have buys before they play Alabama which hardly seems fair if your a Tide fan. The SEC shafted the Tide big time with the scheduling.

The big 3 will play the likes of Oklahoma, Florida State, Boise State, TCU twice, Washington, Notre Dame, and Pittsburgh. These should all be top 25 teams, I am getting excited for football already. Instate school have a chance to play 6-8 games against top 15 opponents this year, now that some serious football.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
The reason I believe Utah was going to the PAC 12 irregardless of there recent football success has to do with the PAC 12's selection of Colorado.

Sorry, I don't mean to dog pile on you but you've lost all credibility with me. So explain to me what exactly irregardless means? Is it much the same as regardless? There, their, they're...it's not tough. :D

Back to your regularly scheduled thread. :p
 

Cody

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Gastown
The reason I believe Utah was going to the PAC 12 irregardless of there recent football success has to do with the PAC 12's selection of Colorado. The PAC 12 did not even hesitate to invite CU despite having serious issues with there athletic program. The PAC 12 loves Utah and Colorado irregardless of what they do on the field, but what they do in the classroom. I admire the PAC 12 for having such stong academic values and I wish other BCS conferences were the same way.

First of all, irregardless is not a word. You could use "regardless" or "irrespective", but you can't combine them. This also leads into my previous question of how to get three degrees and be on the way to a PHD--which I absolutely respect, envy, and applaud--by writing like that.

Secondly, the admission of Colorado was a political move designed to create dissension amongst the remaining Big 10 and Big 12 schools. If Colorado left the Big 12, that would cause Nebraska to want to go also, which, in turn, would hopefully cause the power schools in the big 12 to move to what would have been the Pac-16 and essentially disband the Big 12. It almost worked, but didn't, and Utah became the benefactor. We were always the girl that you call at 2:00 a.m. when you're drunk because you know it's a sure thing. It is what it is, but the extra money and respect that comes with being associated with the other schools in the Pac-10 is huge both academically and athletically. I have two degrees from the U, and if in time those degrees sound as cool to someone as a degree from Stanford or Cal, then even I get something out of it.

You're right. Boise St and TCU are going to be filthy--way dirtier than anything in the PAC-10 this year I think. MWC will have two top 10 schools and two top 20 schools this year. Probably only the SEC will be able to claim that and certainly not the ACC or Big 10. The BCS still needs to go away, but at the absolute minimum the MWC is at least as deserving, if not more deserving, than the teams in the ACC and Big 10--athletically speaking.

Edit: ok, duh. MWC will only have 1 top 10 school and 2 in the teens. BSU isn't MWC until the following season.
 
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spencevans

Overlander
Location
Farmington
First of all, irregardless is not a word. You could use "regardless" or "irrespective", but you can't combine them. This also leads into my previous question of how to get three degrees and be on the way to a PHD--which I absolutely respect, envy, and applaud--by writing like that.

Secondly, the admission of Colorado was a political move designed to create dissension amongst the remaining Big 10 and Big 12 schools. If Colorado left the Big 12, that would cause Nebraska to want to go also, which, in turn, would hopefully cause the power schools in the big 12 to move to what would have been the Pac-16 and essentially disband the Big 12. It almost worked, but didn't, and Utah became the benefactor. We were always the girl that you call at 2:00 a.m. when you're drunk because you know it's a sure thing. It is what it is, but the extra money and respect that comes with being associated with the other schools in the Pac-10 is huge both academically and athletically. I have two degrees from the U, and if in time those degrees sound as cool to someone as a degree from Stanford or Cal, then even I get something out of it.

Yes and no, this is where it gets sticky, because the new deputy commissioner in the PAC 12, Kevin Weiberg, used to be the commisioner of the Big12. He was aware of the internal issues of the Big 12 and that several teams wanted Colorado out of the conference for all there off the field issues and lack of performance on the field. Also Colorado was not providing enough TV revenue to pay their way. It would not make sense why schools like Texas and Oklahoma would want to follow Colorado. They viewed Colorado as a money sucking whole with internal issues. There is definately some gray area, but I do know the Big 12 was very happy to be rid of Colorado. Texas was the power play of the PAC 12. Other schools were willing to follow Texas because there a cash cow, but not CU.

As far as irregardless goes it's an adverb and yes it has the same meaning as regardlesss. It is non standard but it is still a word. Alot the adverbs are non standard, so it's not a big deal. It's just part of life, if you're an adverb.But for what it's worth my wife does not think it's a word either and we have found a way to make the marriage survive. :greg:


Yeah BSU will not be in the MWC this year, but they will be in the WAC and they will play USU. USU also has to play Oklahoma the first game of the year. I am excited to see Utah take on Notre Dame and Pitt. Those will be some tough games. Utah should walk all over Iowa State.
 
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Cody

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Gastown
Texas because there a cash cow, but not CU.

Arghhh!! Stop doing that!

As far as irregardless goes it's an adverb and yes it has the same meaning as regardlesss. It is non standard but it is still a word. Alot the adverbs are non standard, so it's not a big deal. It's just part of life, if you're an adverb.But for what it's worth my wife does not think it's a word either and we have found a way to make the marriage survive. :greg:

Even if dictionaries listed it as anything other than "non standard" or "incorrect", it's still a double negative. Even the dictionary I just looked it up in calls it a "logical absurdity by combining the prefix ir- with the suffix -less". Being male, I deal with enough logical absurdities from the opposite sex so I try to avoid using any of my own ;)

Yeah BSU will not be in the MWC this year, but they will be in the WAC and they will play USU. USU also has to play Oklahoma the first game of the year. I am excited to see Utah take on Notre Dame and Pitt. Those will be some tough games. Utah should walk all over Iowa State.

For sure, and lucky for the MWC BSU will bring any BCS success with them next year when they transfer over.

I didn't even know Utah had Notre Dame on the schedule this year. Shows what I know...
 

Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Stinkwater
Speaking as an Oregon fan, welcome to the PAC. :D I'm excited to see the addition of a quality team to an already wide-open conference, I'm excited for a conference title game, and I'm stoked that my boys will be playing near me more frequently.
 

RuggedH2

Just doing my thing.
Location
Bountiful
My friend let me in to check out the Utes newly remodeled locker room at Rice Eccles.

Looks damn cool in there.

There is already talk of tearing down the South stands and replacing the whole section (including the locker rooms) with a brand new expansion. I think they will be able to fill a 60,000 seat + stadium with USC, UCLA, and the Arizona teams coming to town annually.

RiceEcclesH21.jpg


RiceEcclesH2.jpg
 

SAMI

Formerly Beardy McGee
Location
SLC, UT
Hey look.. In case people couldn't tell you drive a rugged H2, you let them know through your license plate. Good thinking. ;)
 
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