Waggy 44 - shorten or outboard?

[kirk86CJ]

I got a front waggy 44 to have in my backyard if my 30 breaks. I didn't want to be in a rush to find one after I had already broke down. Now that I have it, I am trying to decide which direction to go with it. I may leave it spring under, or do spring over (does have flat top knuckles). One direction I thought of was to leave it full width, the other would be to narrow it. Here is what I "think"

Full With:
1. Be 2" wider than stock on each side.
2. Outboard springs - maybe do a shackle reversal (I could build the brackets myself)
3. May, or may not do a spring over
4. Get wheel spacers for rear 44
5. I like the idea of being a little wider.

Narrow;
1. Pay to have housing (long side) narrowed, re-welded. Standard is 4"? Could I do less than that, and not outboard?
2. Have the long side shaft shortened. This would mean I have a custom length shaft -
3. Perches line right up with frame.
4. Stay at stock witdth

Either way, I plan on converting to 5 x 5 1/2

Just looking for opinions or preferences, someting I haven't thought of.

Which would you do? (best, easiest, cheapest)

Thanks
Kirk

 

[bobdog]

I think a little wider is better
If you want SOA sell it and narrow a chevy 44

 

[Caleb]

well, I agree with bobdog...BUT, IMO, its not worth the added cost to go from a D30 to a D44...get some bigger u-joints and maybe aftermarket shafts for the D30 and save yourself the headache of swapping axles (and be about the same strength)...the only real advantage the 44 has over the 30 is the ability to do high steer cheeaply and easily...

 

[RockMonkey]

well, I agree with bobdog...BUT, IMO, its not worth the added cost to go from a D30 to a D44...get some bigger u-joints and maybe aftermarket shafts for the D30 and save yourself the headache of swapping axles (and be about the same strength)...the only real advantage the 44 has over the 30 is the ability to do high steer cheeaply and easily...

Blasphemy!

good call

 

[kirk86CJ]

Why is a Chevy 44 better than a Wagoneer 44?

Is it because its already set up for spring over? I may just leave it spring under (but I seem to change my mind a lot)

I got the wagoneer axle with the idea with the idea of leaving the width the way it is, and do outboard.

I thought about going 1 ton, but I think it is just overkill for my driving style - I haven't even broke the 30 yet.

Does anyone have a reason not to outboard? Seems like that would be the cheapest/most painless way to go - especially is I keep it spring under for now.

BTW - I would rather say "my name is kirk and I'm an alocoholic" but I already have the warn shafts, and the bigger u-joints.

 

[N-Smooth]

go wider, 2" wheel spacers are cheap... look at www.mcmotorsports.com and hook up. i called them and chatted with the guy and he hooked me up with a deal. (4) 6 lug 2" wide aluminum spacers with studs already in them and lugnuts was $180 bucks shipped from cali. thats a deal imo! narrowing it would be stupid for a couple of inches!

as far as the other stuff, I WOULD spring it over and outboard, that is what i did on the xj. but ultimately it is up to you. don't think about what is easy right now, think about what will make you happiest in the future.

 

[Alabama]

I outboarded my springs when i went with a waggy 44 front.
If you realy want to do a spring over than use a chevy 44 front
and have it cut down....

When i put mine in I went with Warn axle shafts inners and
outers and i have had zero problems in the last 2.5 years.


Steve

 

[Spork]

If I were doing it I would outboard. I would probably even leave it SUA. I would mainly be doing the swap for width not the d30 vs the d44...
I wouldn't do wheel spacers. You already own the axle why spend another $180 to do the same thing? (that and I'm not a fan of wheel spacers)

 

[N-Smooth]

If I were doing it I would outboard. I would probably even leave it SUA. I would mainly be doing the swap for width not the d30 vs the d44...
I wouldn't do wheel spacers. You already own the axle why spend another $180 to do the same thing? (that and I'm not a fan of wheel spacers)

he actually only needs to spend 90 bucks or less for two of them. why are you not a fan of wheel spacers?

 

[jedijeeper]

he actually only needs to spend 90 bucks or less for two of them. why are you not a fan of wheel spacers?

I am not sure of Spork's reason's but... using large wheel spacers can shorten the life of wheel bearings. It sometimes depends on the backspace on the wheel you are using, but you can effectively move the vehicle load from the larger inner bearing out to the smaller outer bearing and wear it out quicker. That's my reasons for not going for spacers bigger than say an inch. I have heard of others who have trouble keeping the inner lugs tight on them, but if you use a little lock tight they are fine.

-JJ

 

[jedijeeper]

Oh yeah... another route that is available....

When I did my cj-7 axles I found a front 44 from a full size Jeep truck (which is actually also the same exact axle as the front of a wide track full size Jeep Cherokee (You tell these by the large steel fender flares they came with)... about 4 inches wider than Wagoneer axle width). I wanted to be wider, and I wanted to be on the orginal spring mounts. So I got the J-10 wider axle and narrowed the long side. I slid the axle tube out (with spring perch still attached) and shortened it to make the spring perches line up exactly with the CJ springs. I then just got a single axle shaft... which turned out to be the standard size for something... can't remember what.... from Moser.

In then end, I was two inches wider than stock on each side, and my springs remained mounted where they were. If you already have pretty stiff lift springs that you are going to be keeping, moving them outboard can reduce the amount of axle twist you have (although this can be countered by running softer springs). If you run the stiff springs in their stock location and move the wheel out via a wider axle, then you effectively increase the leverage a single wheel has on the springs (in twist mode) while maintaining the exact same ride when both wheels are engaged in up and down movement, so you get better flex all while the springs don't have to move as far... make sense? (probably not... I never make any )

One more thing... running a large housing and heavier components will also increase the un-sprung weight, which can improve wheel droop tremendously.

I think you can accomplish the same thing as the J-10 axle with a chev 44... I am not sure which one would work best though so you'll have to get out there and measure them. The main thing you want is a measurement from the center of the pumpkin spring perch to the WMS on the same side.... you want that to be bigger than your stock 30 by however much wider per side you want the vehicle.

Good luck, axle swapping is a blast!
-JJ

 

[bobdog]

Oh yeah... another route that is available....

When I did my cj-7 axles I found a front 44 from a full size Jeep truck (which is actually also the same exact axle as the front of a wide track full size Jeep Cherokee (You tell these by the large steel fender flares they came with)... about 4 inches wider than Wagoneer axle width). I wanted to be wider, and I wanted to be on the orginal spring mounts. So I got the J-10 wider axle and narrowed the long side. I slid the axle tube out (with spring perch still attached) and shortened it to make the spring perches line up exactly with the CJ springs. I then just got a single axle shaft... which turned out to be the standard size for something... can't remember what.... from Moser.

In then end, I was two inches wider than stock on each side, and my springs remained mounted where they were. If you already have pretty stiff lift springs that you are going to be keeping, moving them outboard can reduce the amount of axle twist you have (although this can be countered by running softer springs). If you run the stiff springs in their stock location and move the wheel out via a wider axle, then you effectively increase the leverage a single wheel has on the springs (in twist mode) while maintaining the exact same ride when both wheels are engaged in up and down movement, so you get better flex all while the springs don't have to move as far... make sense? (probably not... I never make any )

One more thing... running a large housing and heavier components will also increase the un-sprung weight, which can improve wheel droop tremendously.

I think you can accomplish the same thing as the J-10 axle with a chev 44... I am not sure which one would work best though so you'll have to get out there and measure them. The main thing you want is a measurement from the center of the pumpkin spring perch to the WMS on the same side.... you want that to be bigger than your stock 30 by however much wider per side you want the vehicle.

Good luck, axle swapping is a blast!
-JJ

My thoughts exactly.

When I decided to swap a 44 into my CJ my first plan was to use a waggy 44, narrow the long side so perches would match stock CJ and stay spring under. I talked to Charles at RMA and he told me that the waggy axle is actually a little shorter from the short side perch to the WMS(I had always heard that it would be the same as stock CJ widetrac but it is not). Because My tires rubbed a little on the springs with the stock axle I definately did not want to go with the waggy axle either narrowed or outboarding the springs.

You will be doing yourself a big favor by deciding exactly what you want as far as SOA/SUA and width and have a housing built to your specs. I found that most of the money I spent was for locker, gears, and the little things that really seemed to add up. The cost of having the housing set up exactly like I wanted it was cheep. It is not where you want to compromise.

 

[koondawg]

Outboard Fo Shore!!

I would do the outboard, get rid of that D30, and put something nice and big under there!!

 

[mbryson]

well, I agree with bobdog...BUT, IMO, its not worth the added cost to go from a D30 to a D44...get some bigger u-joints and maybe aftermarket shafts for the D30 and save yourself the headache of swapping axles (and be about the same strength)...the only real advantage the 44 has over the 30 is the ability to do high steer cheeaply and easily...

That about sums up my opinion on the age old D30/D44 debate......

 

[kirk86CJ]

This thread was 6 months old -

I ended selling the 44 and keeping the 30.

Didn't want to outboard, or end up narrower than stock.

Still haven't broke anything.