What expedition rig to get?

[solidfrontaxle]

I also forgot to mention late 90s 4runners are awesome too, and also can have rear lockers. They look better than an 80 too


Check the classifieds on Ih8mud, as those rigs are generally really well taken care of and there are often built ones. Don't shy away from the higher mileage (100-200k) as they are just as good as the lower mileage ones if they have been taken care of.

A quick browse brought up these ones:

Decent 80 series
I know you said you didn't want a 62
Nice low mileage 80 series
Ridiculously awesome but expensive diesel 80 series.

 

[SAMI]

I'll add to the late 90's 4runner.. They rock! You can pick them up for $5-9k in good shape. A well taken care of 4runner with the timing done 100k-150k miles is a prime example of a great platform.

 

[heinie_21]

I dont think there is a better FAMILY trail rig than an 80 series.. really. The fj60 (or62) would be great for you! you could buy a nice one for about 4 grand, then buy some armor and maybe do a engine rebuild so your wife will be satisfied with the reliability factor.
We bought a fj 60 brand new in 1984 and it has lasted all these years! It has had 6 teenagers drive it through high school. and it still has life in it.

 

[heinie_21]

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=6547580&cat=402&lpid
this is a sick 4-runnerhttp://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=6547580&cat=402&lpid

 

[cruiseroutfit]

First I think you need to define what an "expedition" vehicle is to you. One persons "expedition build" is another persons "trail rig" and vice versa. To me an expedition rig is a vehicle set up to allow use unsupported for a week plus, this is fuel, food, water, sleeping arrangements, etc. For something that gets used for an overnighter or two here and there, there is no definite reason to add things like a refrigerator, shower or aux. fuel tank. If you want something to take to the Maze, and then into the Swell and then over Skyline Drive without having to stop and re-stock or refuel, then you need to build an "expedition" rig.

For a true expedition setup, the actual vehicle modifications come second to the vehicle accessories. Roof top tents, battery systems, showers, fuel tanks, water tanks, cans or bladders, racks, etc. In fact for a true expedition vehicle, the best thing would be to keep the base vehicle as stock as possible, addressing only the known weak links and beefing up the suspension and drive train only to accommodate the increase payload of gear.

Some of the more notable "Expedition" style trails in Utah can be done in a stock 4x4, ie WRT, HITR, PET, etc. Again I feel the gear dictates more to an expedition build than the build of the vehicle to some extent.

 

[Tacoma]

Well put, Kurtis Blow. Under that definition I kind of like the Burb-- it'll get you up family-tough trails with a week's supply, an almost infinte supply of parts everywhere (including trashed cars in the desert LOL), and cheaply, with room for everything inside.

But they are wide and long.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Get a unicat!

Man I love those things. No where near your requirements for money, but check them out, they are beyond cool there.
http://www.unicatamericas.com/
http://www.unicat.net/en/index.html

This is what I want to build some day. Not sure if I want one on the back of a kenworth, or if I want a 4x4 version like these are. Still, coolest things out there!

On a more serious note, for you, for your needs. Can't beat a Unimog

Portal axles, clearance of 18" down the center under the pumpkin Lockers front and rear 4x4 (both lockers and 4x4 can engage at ANY speed)

Check out this one, it is all rigged up to be the perfect vehicle for you.http://elevation9600.com/unimog/

Also, on here http://www.unimog.net/exchange/index.php?page=1
I believe it is add number 120 This one is very unique, and would be amazing. Seats NINE plus a huge cargo area that you could easily build two sets of bunk beds into. This one is more spendy, all of the others I listed are under 10 K this one the guy wants 20K but he is close, in Colorado springs. He had it on Ebay, but it is not on there anymore. He has some great photos of the insides. It is also has four doors plus the rear. http://unimog.net/exchange/photos/090503-10.jpg

Also on that above web sight http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/1roadkill/Volvo/DSCF6106.jpg this thing is a great possibility, with amazing capabilities. Four doors like you want...

Anyhow, for an expedition vehicle the Mog is an amazing vehicle. Further their are parts available that are brand new from as far back as the 60's that simply were never installed. You can get anything you need for them.

Anyhow, that is my thought for you. It is seriously worth looking into.

Oh yeah, Most mogs can not exceed 55mph, but check out this thing, any mog (of the sizes I listed above) could do this stock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VmwbdDqQJ4

Here is another one you will not believe... Also fairly stock other than the roll cage, and he may have relocated the fuel tank.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI-f83S16bc
Brian

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...On a more serious note, for you, for your needs. Can't beat a Unimog...

Guess I read a completely different set of needs than you?

Room for 2 adults and 2 kids - So in the Unimog world that would equate to a Doka or other 4 door variants, which start in the $20k range for one that likely needs work.

$12k budget - Not happening for a road worthy mog.

Fuel economy. Good luck, when you try and push them at the higher speeds (read the minimum speeds legally required on most highways), the mileage heads down.

This isn't to say it can't be done, there is an RME'er (Eric) with a 4 door mog, turbo diesel, very well equipped. But your looking more like $50k & up for something that gets bad mileage, is slow and is not a family friendly rig. I too want to own one eventually, but for a different set of needs.

 

[Cody]

If you want something to take to the Maze, and then into the Swell and then over Skyline Drive without having to stop and re-stock or refuel, then you need to build an "expedition" rig.

So....are you saying I have an "expedition" rig?

 

[cuban b]

Geonardo di Metrio, or....

right now my thinking is 4 door frontier. It's cheaper than tacoma and nissans are better anyway . Then you customize the bed to full awesomeness. A shell, a sweet rack built with your buddy's tube bender and some trail armor.

Hits the price range, super dependable, decent mileage(same as tacoma anyway). comfortable all day, decent on the trail, and I'll build the rock sliders rack and bumpers.

No more discussion needed.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

So....are you saying I have an "expedition" rig?

Well, close. Add some extra fuel capacity, a fridge and yes. The caveat being that's my definition of an expedition rig, others don't consider anything less than a Sportsmobile or EarthRoamer

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...right now my thinking is 4 door frontier. It's cheaper than tacoma and nissans are better anyway . Then you customize the bed to full awesomeness. A shell, a sweet rack built with your buddy's tube bender and some trail armor.

Hits the price range, super dependable, decent mileage(same as tacoma anyway). comfortable all day, decent on the trail, and I'll build the rock sliders rack and bumpers.

No more discussion needed.

Not so fast

There is a reason the Tacoma is so popular in this type of build... it simply works so well. Thats not to say the Frontier can't be done nearly the same and I'd agree both truck are great out of the box, but the Tacoma has 10x more aftermarket and product support. Support that is not only important when building and outfitting a vehicle, but when servicing one 300 miles from home too.

Take it fwiw, I've personally had my hands on the builds of hundreds of "expedition" style builds over the years, Cruisers that went from Canada to the tip of South America (dcon) to Tacomas that have been the primary residence of their vagabond owners for 3-4 years now. If I've gathered anything from all these experiences, each build will relate more towards the owner definition of "expedition" than anything else. Some think 35" tires and a snorkel are needed for an expedition rig, other think a 75 gallon fuel capacity and diesel are needed for an expedition rig. The concept will vary as greatly as the owners themselves, which imo makes it that much funner.

I could go on for hours about what influence my personal builds. But basically I found a need and I solved it. Sleeping --> Roof top tent. Fuel --> Scepter Cans. Water --> Scepter Cans. Food --> Fridge & KampKitchen. Storage --> Military containers, waterproof, heavy duty, easy to stow, pack, store.

 

[Cody]

Well, close. Add some extra fuel capacity, a fridge and yes. The caveat being that's my definition of an expedition rig, others don't consider anything less than a Sportsmobile or EarthRoamer

Well, if I keep the thing I'll address the fuel thing with a hitch mounted rack.

I'd love a fridge, but it's not currently in the budget. The plan is to go to a 4 door taco, and buy/build a buggy again.

Personally, for anything that is staying in the states, I don't see much of an advantage for the toyota LC stuff vs. XJ/ZJ/WJ. Reliability is maybe slightly better on the toyota, but the jeep SUV's are so much less expensive to build, are much lighter, have more power, and probably better mileage.

Let's not talk about the highly neglected 93 4.0 ZJ I owned, but both of the 5.2 ZJ's I've used off road have been nothing but reliable and I think you can say I've tested the limits of ZJ durability.

You can pick up WJ's with reasonably low miles with the 4.7 V8 for well below $10k, put a few grand into mild suspension, tires, and other toys and you have a very creature-comfortable, very road worthy, rig in what I consider a perfect mid sized SUV box. Not too big, not too wide, not too heavy (about 4k lbs stock, 5k fully outfitted).

Tell me your wife wouldn't approve of something sexy like this?

I mean, that's a good lookin, mildly built WJ.

Or this....

Little bigger...with more stuff (I'm not a fan of roof racks but I guess for expedition type stuff they serve a purpose

Am I the only one that finds built WJ's to be sexy?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Personally, for anything that is staying in the states, I don't see much of an advantage for the toyota LC stuff vs. XJ/ZJ/WJ. Reliability is maybe slightly better on the toyota, but the jeep SUV's are so much less expensive to build, are much lighter, have more power, and probably better mileage...

Agreed on many levels, I think a XJ, ZJ or WJ can be a great rig and one of the most budget oriented rigs out there. However its hardly fair to compare the two, longevity and reliability isn't a "slightly better" imo, I really have a hard time comparing the two in that regards, given my experiences, you get what you pay for and that is reflected on the ridiculously high price on used Toyota particularly LC's and the ridiculously depreciation on a Jeep. Can one take that extra money and build a superior setup, sure, no doubt it can be done. Take for example a mid 90's LC versus a mid 90's ZJ. The LC has a full float rear axle (easy to field service and strong), rear discs, factory locking differentials, a fully boxed frame, robust tranny, factory sub-tank options, factory snorkel options and as much aftermarket support as you can wish for both in the states and worldwide. About the only benefit I can see of the Jeep is the V8, which while a great feature, can't really be attributed to any major benefit of an expedition vehicle? They can run as fast as we do on the dirt, do highway speeds up and down hills and add a factory available SC and they will go as fast as you want with a Toyota warranty and rock solid proven reliability.

There is a reason the number of Jeeps beat out other vehicles 2:1 combined for trail rigs in general, and there is a reason a Toyota beats out other vehicles 2:1 for overland uses worldwide and here in the states. Again, thats not to say they can't be built either way, and they definitely have too, just that for a base vehicle I believe the LC80 lends itself to this type of use far better than most, the 4D Tacoma a close second, the 100 Series (V8 powered) & 4Runners not far behind.

And since we needs some pics. Some recent builds, 09' 200 Series ($75K ), 07' Series, 09' FJC and others

 

[Kiel]

I always figured that my breaking point on toyota versus jeep, would be, can I get a common part in a small town. Something like a balljoint, alternator, starter etc. The answer on a jeep 4.0 would be yes. On a toyota not so much. True it's easy to carry stuff like that, but again it takes up space. My plan is for a cherokee. When it gets busted up I can sell it for scrap and swap everything to another one for pretty cheap.

 

[Bart]

But Yota's never break, so you don't have to worry about it.

 

[mesha]

First I think you need to define what an "expedition" vehicle is to you. One persons "expedition build" is another persons "trail rig" and vice versa. To me an expedition rig is a vehicle set up to allow use unsupported for a week plus, this is fuel, food, water, sleeping arrangements, etc. For something that gets used for an overnighter or two here and there, there is no definite reason to add things like a refrigerator, shower or aux. fuel tank. If you want something to take to the Maze, and then into the Swell and then over Skyline Drive without having to stop and re-stock or refuel, then you need to build an "expedition" rig.

For a true expedition setup, the actual vehicle modifications come second to the vehicle accessories. Roof top tents, battery systems, showers, fuel tanks, water tanks, cans or bladders, racks, etc. In fact for a true expedition vehicle, the best thing would be to keep the base vehicle as stock as possible, addressing only the known weak links and beefing up the suspension and drive train only to accommodate the increase payload of gear.

Some of the more notable "Expedition" style trails in Utah can be done in a stock 4x4, ie WRT, HITR, PET, etc. Again I feel the gear dictates more to an expedition build than the build of the vehicle to some extent.

Well I guess my definition of expedition is a trail rig expo hybrid. I would like to be able to do some mild wheeling with it. However, that mild wheeling is doable in stock jeeps so shouldn't be a big deal. I would lift and lock it, but little. I have a crawler for the serious stuff. The size of lift and tires depends on the size of the rig. on a cherokee it would be 32-33 inch tires. on a full size chevy it would be 33-35 in tires. I go out for extended trips to the swell and stuff, but don't plan on driving so far that I couldn't take enough extra gas cans to get me there. Right now my truck has a range of 600-700 miles without needing to refuel. I have 20 gallons of CNG and 30 gallons of gasoline. I like that range and think that is fine for me. I could add extra 5 gallon tanks to get me to that point. A fridge would be nice, but a RTT is a ways down the road. I have like 30 tents so I would probably just use those for now. I get what you are saying. I don't plan on doing the camel trophy. If I went to the off road for a week I would like to be able to follow most roads I came across even if that meant a little wheeling not going somewhere specifically to wheel. If that makes sense.

Geonardo di Metrio, or....

right now my thinking is 4 door frontier. It's cheaper than tacoma and nissans are better anyway . Then you customize the bed to full awesomeness. A shell, a sweet rack built with your buddy's tube bender and some trail armor.

Hits the price range, super dependable, decent mileage(same as tacoma anyway). comfortable all day, decent on the trail, and I'll build the rock sliders rack and bumpers.

No more discussion needed.

Time for a sas on the metro huh. I like frontiers. I need to go drive some and see. I will hold you to the sliders and bumpers. Can I get the same offer on whatever rig I get.
Maybe we should make a tube bed for the chebby.

 

[mesha]

Well, if I keep the thing I'll address the fuel thing with a hitch mounted rack.

I'd love a fridge, but it's not currently in the budget. The plan is to go to a 4 door taco, and buy/build a buggy again.

Personally, for anything that is staying in the states, I don't see much of an advantage for the toyota LC stuff vs. XJ/ZJ/WJ. Reliability is maybe slightly better on the toyota, but the jeep SUV's are so much less expensive to build, are much lighter, have more power, and probably better mileage.

Let's not talk about the highly neglected 93 4.0 ZJ I owned, but both of the 5.2 ZJ's I've used off road have been nothing but reliable and I think you can say I've tested the limits of ZJ durability.

You can pick up WJ's with reasonably low miles with the 4.7 V8 for well below $10k, put a few grand into mild suspension, tires, and other toys and you have a very creature-comfortable, very road worthy, rig in what I consider a perfect mid sized SUV box. Not too big, not too wide, not too heavy (about 4k lbs stock, 5k fully outfitted).

Tell me your wife wouldn't approve of something sexy like this?

I mean, that's a good lookin, mildly built WJ.

Or this....

Little bigger...with more stuff (I'm not a fan of roof racks but I guess for expedition type stuff they serve a purpose

Am I the only one that finds built WJ's to be sexy?

Those are pretty sweet. You got 15 mpg in yours?

 

[Cody]

longevity and reliability isn't a "slightly better" imo, I really have a hard time comparing the two in that regards, given my experiences, you get what you pay for and that is reflected on the ridiculously high price on used Toyota particularly LC's

Not trying to argue, but you have to account for a lot of that by the finatical almost "cult" following the LC has developed over the last 40 years. I mean, there are people that hoard and collect the damn things and will ship them accross oceans so they can sit in their yard for their LC buddies to drool over. There is a premium on anything landcruiser--I mean look at the FJ Cruiser people who gobble up all of those parts. Do you honestly consider that a Land Cruiser, or just a marketing ploy by Toyota to capitalize on the LC craze by putting a new dress and a tilt-o-meter on the dash of a 4runner platform?

About the only benefit I can see of the Jeep is the V8, which while a great feature, can't really be attributed to any major benefit of an expedition vehicle?

Because the extra power and ability to go faster than maybe necessary are not benefits. Why did you search so hard for the supercharged taco again?

If you are comparing the ZJ to the mid 90's LC, then the jeep also has disk brakes on all 4 corners, weighs 1500-2000 lbs less, is more fuel efficient (exept the 4.0, that motor sucks gas offroad), and there are more people in the states that make aftermarket parts, and just a higher volume of cheap part donors out there. Some of the other knocks on the ZJ are true--rear axle sucks, unibody, etc. There isn't much argument pro for the d35 (or the 44hd in 96-98 V8's), the unibody for a light trail/expedition vehicle isn't going to have any problems. It can take plenty of abuse.

There is a reason the number of Jeeps beat out other vehicles 2:1 combined for trail rigs in general, and there is a reason a Toyota beats out other vehicles 2:1 for overland uses worldwide and here in the states.

Absolutely. Worldwide especially and I'm the first to admit you'd be crazy to take anything other than a toy or maybe a nissan on a trip to any remote areas of the world. But for what we have here and what Mesha plans to do, I think you can buy a newer, more comfortable, lower mileage, perfectly reliable ZJ/WJ and build it exactly how you want, for much less money.

 

[Cody]

Those are pretty sweet. You got 15 mpg in yours?

I get 15 mpg out of mine on average on the freeway. But I do have 35's and 4.56's...and a very low mile motor. I'm not sure what the 4.7 Wj's get, but I would expect about the same. When I had a stock v8 ZJ, I would get 18-20 mpg freeway only. I would expect a v8 WJ with 32's (285's) and stock gearing to get in the neighborhood of 15 though.