What if? An Alternative to a Dual Battery System Concept

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JL Rockies

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As it has been my stated public opinion, I don't believe a dual battery system is necessary in most cases. I also believe that in most applications that they are used in, they're doing more harm than good and the kits available are inadequate and/or fire hazards. What if you could get the storied safety net of a dual batt system without having to buy a 2nd battery, wiring solenoid or the extra fuse holder the kits don't include? What it the item protected your primary battery better than most of the expensive inadequate kits do? What if it made your existing dual batt system work even better? What if the system took up little space, allowed you to run your expo-approved devices on long trips and got you home for less money? Knowing the last advantage alone, you'd have to consider buying right?

Alpha testing will start soon. More details when I become an RME vendor (and I'm satisfied it's ready).
 

Spork

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Sounds like that thing they had a while back where the battery had a thing you flipped and if you had left your lights on and drained the battery the second charge was enough you could start your car. I forgot what it was called but it's been a while since I've seen it.
 

JL Rockies

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I won't be anything I can retire on, just looking to serve the offroad comminity and be gangster. Basically it's two ideas that work great together, I did not reinvent the wheel. The concept is sound, I just need to come up with a way to test repeatability. I'd feel bad if someone got stranded in the desert with a dead battery because I was wrong. Well... I'd be OK with certain people getting stranded... I think I'll invite them to be testers... hmm.
 

JL Rockies

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as long is it doesnt' sound like vaporware, I'm ok with it. Solar is too hippy for me to get involved with... and it takes up a lot of space... and it's expensive.
 

cruiseroutfit

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If it could in fact solve all of the many purposes and answers that a dual battery solves at a lower cost and less labor intensive install it would be a no brainer. It needs to solve capacity, redundancy and potential for 24v in series to be an option for me. Would this what if device meet that?

Have you firsthand seen a dual battery lead to a fire? I know hundreds with them (literally) and never heard nor seen of any type of catastrophic failure. My 2 cents...
 

Tacoma

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Right now, with no real information, I'm not sure it solves any problems that haven't already been solved. I think that setup you (Kurt) are running is about the peak of the genre, with many less-costly and feature-laden options abounding between that and stock 2-battery setups.

I'm interested to see what this new hawtness is.
 

JL Rockies

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In my time, I have seen many fires caused by inadequate wiring, fusing and poor installation... both with isolators and without. When I see a secondary battery without a fuse on the charge wire I cringe. Many people feel it's not necessary but I disagree. I've been in 2 car fires caused by sub-par wiring, both with single batts, the 2nd I was test driving a Mercedes on the freeway. It's amazing how fast you can't see due to smoke and you can't open the windows. Also, many of the dual battery kits I've seen from inexpensive to very expensive do not have adequate gauge wiring to handle high-current situations, are set up to use the chasis of the vehicle as the return which makes the system not truly isolated and negates the peformance of wire above 4awg.

I've never needed 24V in my vehicle and I willing to bet most people don't either since we have 12V charging systems on most vehicles. I wasn't aware of a system that allows you to series the batts, I've only seen a system that allows you to parallel them. How much capacity does the average person need? I bet the average person doesn't know.

All power to run accessories come from the charging system and no system is going to change that. You can increase reserve time with a dual batt system but the butcher's bill will still need to be paid and average power over time really doesn't change with a dual batt system. That butcher's bill can be quite taxing when it comes due since now the charging system has an additional load.

As you'll note, I don't speak in absolutes. I use words like "most" and "opinion". I've been around 12V for many years and was once highly regarded, I believe I've seen more than hundreds of examples of 12V systems both well executed and not... I mean if I were going to lie about being an expert about something, I'd pick something cooler than 12V systems... I'd pick cowboy or fireman. I feel that I've earned the right to express my opininion as an expert on such matters and acknowledge that there is a time and place but the advantages of a dual batt system do not apply to most people... and if my alternative is installed improperly there's no fire... it just won't work and won't be an additional load on the alternator either. I've installed many dual batt systems in my time, I'd dare say perhaps more than anyone on here. In the days before there were kits with dual batt monitors and "all" the wiring you'll need. The right way IMO, is at least 2 AWG wire, both the power wire and ground wire isolated and a bigger alternator. Short of improving all the pathways and increasing the capacity of the charging system, a dual batt system will not reach it's true potential. I really don't see anyone doing this so I'm going to be outspoken about it.

As my final 2 cents I'd like to point out that I carefully selected the word "alternative" and that's my story about the truth. You'll be happy to know we'll have a reseller program with master carton quanties of 10. When can I expect a PO Kurt? :D
 

cruiseroutfit

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Have a system that works and I will gladly sell and install... I do several dual bat installs a month and am always interested in more products to work with.

As for 24v, I don't need them to auto series but to use a portable welder I do need 2 batteries and if I'm solo I have to haul them both... No sense hauling a battery that isn't charging all through a built in fused intelligent solenoid featuring over/undercharge protection, alarms, etc. FWIW even my puny stock Tacoma alternator has zero problem bringing my bats up up to full capacity with a days drive and a few days of discharge with my the accessories. Good bats with a decent absorbtion rate are key, Odyssey's fit that bill.
 

Tacoma

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Joseph, your post was rational and well-laid-out. Thank you for that. I have no qualms with anything you've said, and agree in particular with this:

The right way IMO, is at least 2 AWG wire, both the power wire and ground wire isolated and a bigger alternator. Short of improving all the pathways and increasing the capacity of the charging system, a dual batt system will not reach it's true potential. I really don't see anyone doing this so I'm going to be outspoken about it.

FWIW, that's how I wired my old M725. All the wiring in the charging system and to the numerous outlets was beefed way up. :D Worked very well. Spotlight stayed bright too.

I'll be calling you when it's time for more dual batterying.
 

JL Rockies

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I'm going to Ft Lauderdale for the holidays and I hope to access the lab at JL Audio to create a video that will illustrate the points I've tried to make here. I've not done any formal market research but I think it's safe to say that a majority of expedition peeps buy a dual batt system so they can run their ARB fridge, ARB Adventure light, ARB message chair, power their laptop so they can download their photos and have their rig start up when their ready to go home.

If this be true and this fits your motivation, let me ask a question of anyone reading this thread. You're on a multi-day trip base-camping out of your rig, a few days go by and your accessory battery drains to the point that your ARB fridge goes into low-voltage protection and you have a couple of days before your trip is over... what do you do?
 
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